What are CHAVS?

I think Leeum put a link on earlier. www.chavscum.co.uk

Allow me to repeat an earlier announcement I made. So long as I am a moderator of this forum, there shall be absolutely NO "owned/pwned" posts. Period. They aren't funny. Ever. In fact, there was NEVER a point or situation in which they were funny. There are very few things that I go "all-out Nazi mod" on, and this is one of them. Cut the shit.

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As for the topic at hand, remember that there are some major culture differences between the US and UK. This includes social sects. I don't know anything about Goths in the UK (or any British social sect for that matter), but goths in the US are generally just angsty high school kids. I mean, I hate to stereotype, but most of the "goths" over here are like that. And yes, often times "goths" in the US will actually claim to be, and label themselves as, "goths."

Generally, rejected children will try the hardest to fit into an "alternative" group while keeping scorn for other groups. Of course, what they generally don't realize is that they are conforming to a "non-conformity," effectively defeating the purpose of becoming whatever the hell they decided to become in the first place. In the US, much more than other countries, stress is placed on individualism. Everyone is "unique," and if you're in an "alternative" click, you're somehow more unique than everyone else. Now you've got superiority complexes and a bunch of other superfluous bull shit. The point being, you can NEVER say that you're more unique than members of other groups when, in the end, you're really just an honorary member of another everyday group.

And don't think that I'm saying this with hubris, either. Trust me, I've been there.

Of course, you can't really blame a teen for trying to "belong" to something. It's really just part of growing up. Search for identity and all that sentimental shit. However, when adults stay in a phase they should have grown out of years back, that's when the problems occur.

(Everything in the above post refers to US "goths." I've already stated that I don't know shit about social sects in the UK. For the love of god, no one start harping on that.)

It's pretty much the same in the UK. At least with the goths I know.

Who was harping?

No one. That's the point. I don't want anyone to start.

No one, but he didn't want anyone to start.

Yep, this is the sad part. Some people think they're being so daring and nonconformative by joining a group that they perceive to be out of the norm. Even if that group is so positively unoriginal and normal that they're just making themselves blend in more.

I like the goths (and non-goths) that don't try to fit in. Like, the ones that dye their hair some eye-watering color and spike it up and do whatever kind of crazy thing they want. Of course, some of these people may just be trying to get attention, but I think some do it because they honestly just want to do it. That's cool. For example, the guy at my school who wears like old-school Converse and plaid old-style lounge pants that stop several inches above his ankles, and a jacket and shirt that make him look like a geeky anchorman. And he took his ID tag (everyone at school has to wear these ID cards around their necks, it's total crap) and scanned it and made a copy of it about ten times larger which he wears around school. But no one would say he's uncool. He's one of the coolest kids at my school. It's awesome. Everyone should be like that guy. (please laugh at the irony of that last statement) But seriously, I think he exemplifies what I'm talking about.

I heard in the US Goths don't envy the popular folks. I was reading an article in a magazine where a Goth guy was stabbed in St. Stephen's Green, in Dublin. Ireland, as far as I can tell, is a catholic, christian filled society where religion is deep, and I don't think the Irish take kindly to 'Pagans' or 'Satanists' as they are falsely accused of being.

I'm right here you know.

This is a pretty cool debate that you guys have cooked up here. :)

I have a question for you:

Some people have called me a goth before, but I don't identify myself as that. I don't identify myself as anything. My clothes are mostly black, and I tend to lean toward a more alternative appearance. But does that actually make me a "goth"? I guess what I'm trying to ask is, do you define yourself by what other people say you are, and if you're unique, do you simply adopt the culture that is the most similar to what you are?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what I was trying to ask/say anyways.

Although I don't consider someone to be "something" if it's just other people saying what they are, most people will make an automatic assumption of your class depending on how you look. Humans will always judge a book by its cover. That's all there is to it.

For example, if you wear lots of black and make-up, you're going to get called a goth by everyone, except (perhaps) your closest friends, no matter what you say you are. If you spike your hair into a green mohawk and wear a studded leather jacket, you'll get called a punk. Football team and sports jersey? Jock. So on and so forth.

Personally, I, like 99% of America (and with globalization/Americanization, most of the rest of the world), would like to think of myself as an incredibly unique individual. Like I said in my above post, "I've been there." However, the plain truth is that, no matter how "original" I consider my morals and ideals to be, there are probably thousands of people out there that think with a mindset very similar to my own, if not exactly alike. I try my damnedest not to fit into a particular facet of society, and that in itself makes me identical to scores of others in the world. Not only that, I could label myself with plenty of common tags if I wanted to: Artist, Gamer, Perfectionist, Independent, Extrovert, and even more embarrassing titles, like "Rocker" or something asinine like that.

In other words, I probably adopt aspects from more social sects than I would like to admit.

Hmm, well I can't say that I put any amount of effort into trying to be or not be something. I don't like any one band or anything like that which would put me into a certain catagory. I've done a bit of everything.

I'm kinda goth mixed with grunge and emo, (really doing my best to fit myself into something here). The problem is, just when I think I know what I am, there is always something else that makes me think "oh yeah, I'm also a little bit X as well".

I'd say your'e just original ;)

Heh, being totally original would be nice. I could invent my own following. :P

And that's the best thing that anyone can do. :p

Well, in my opinion.

i try not to classify people into an arche- or stereotype.


you're not defined by how you dress, what movies you watch, or what music you listen to.

i try to get to know someone first.


if i had to classify myself, i'd say i'm predominantly an artsy emo/indie asshole. good emo, dudes. not the shit they're feeding kids these days. we're talking early- to mid-90s. portraits of past. rites of spring. hell, even city of caterpillar.

I don't mind Goths. But like you, I don't place people into groups. And I'm even more impressed that you used the word archetype. I absolutely love you. All you have to do now is use 'empathise' instead of 'sympathise' anywhere and I'll give you the deeds to my house.

However, one question. What on Earth is 'emo'? Jacob has used it, and now you. I'm confused :|

Alcar...

Emo is a style of music. The followers mostly look the same. Dino looks very Emo-like, with his long black fringe.

Personally, I like the Emo-followers but hate Emo.

emo is a sub-genre offshoot of hardcore punk and punk.

it's short for 'emotional hardcore', which sounds pretty lame, but it's actually quite good.


in the early years, you have portraits of past, embrace, antioch arrow, four hundred years, and bands like that.

later on, it diverges. there's emo and emocore. it gets pretty ridiculous. all the categorizing and such, but sometimes it's easier to get your point acrossed.



basically, it covers a broad variety of music, ranging from singer-songwriter to hardcore to post-rock.


some artists[if you're interested] are: braid, cap'n jazz, the promise ring, stop it!!, a minor forest, neil perry.


nowadays, the word is correlated with really bad bands who haven't the ounch of emotion the original bands did and are more fueled by money than raw feelings.

the music originally gathered its fanbase in the late 80s to early 90s for it's harder edge and introspective lyrics.


there you go!

Some emo music is good, the only stuff i can't stand is the really depressing stuff like "i want to slit my wrists and crowdsurf on a pit of knives". Ska punk is the happy medium for me, it's happy and then you get into the hardcore punk which plain kicks ass :D

well, most emo isn't really about that at all.


while a lot of it does deal with heartbreak and the like, most turns a critical eye on altruism, society, and the pathos.


it's definitely depressing, though.


i'm not sure what kind of hardcore punk you're into, but you might like emo and you don't even know it!

Ok, your explanation kicks mine into space. :)

But when I think 'Emo', I see Funeral for a Friend. *shudder*

I just watched Cold Mountain last night. I'm thinking about losing some weight (I was thinking about that anyway) and buying black leather boots and a black overcoat type of thing and black trousers and a wide-rimmed black hat and trying to look like those cool, cool people in Cold Mountain. I'm not thinking too seriously about it, but it would look so cool. They look like scarecrows in that movie. Especially that one freaky guy with the really light blond hair. He's the devil... but he's very well dressed.

Has anyone ever seen one of those people who dress up in old-fashioned clothes? There's one kid at my school who wears this wool coat thing that looks like what they might have worn a hundred years ago. The effect is kind of ruined by the fact that he's wearing faded jeans, but it's still pretty cool.

Isn't this about goth's not you in old clothes?

You might consider dressing up in old-fashioned black clothes gothic? I do.

No just a wierd habit to me.

All the goths I met seem friendly, more friendly than some people I met.

Uh-oh oddish is about ot go in a rage and tell us about all the mean people he's met and how he hate's them (backs away slowly)

No I'm not, you can be so negative. And like you said, this thread is about Goths.

I think you did the most Gothic thing...

...Named yourself after the Robot from Power Rangers!

It was a joke so anyway back on topic: Why would people abuse goths if goths do nothing to "norm's" shall we call em?

Because Norms are anti-social Dickheads. Or Tw@s.

Okay I wouldn't consider myself a norm or a goth. I just like diffrent thing's rather than some other people in my school....

As far as the whole goth thing stands, My best friend is Goth, and I have been called the most not goth looking goth person ever. This is because I have no money. I'd probably look more goth than I do now.

As far as the whole Norms vs Goths thing goes, both sides can torture each other, equally bad I might like to add. It just depends on the person.

gross, duder.

ai ya yai ya yai!

Power ranger's?, what do you mean I've named myself?

It's possible that Alpha named himself after the first letter in the Greek alphabet, not a . . . whatever it was you people said.

Oh the name yeah it was the greek letter A I named it after my fav greek letters are O( omega) and D(delta) I ended up with Alpha though.

So anyway would people be goths if they like diffrent things rather than the "norm" crowd.

Most likely they would be 'called' goths. And possibly attacked by chavy 'norm' types.