Now you're just contradicting yourself.

I don't know at what point I started trying to intentionally piss you off, but I hope you realized it.

I do think you have bad taste, but so does my wife, and I love the shit out of her. Having bad taste doesn't make you a bad person.

Yeah, most of my acquiantances have a bad taste. It's understandable.

Yes I realized that but people trying to intentionally piss me off only makes me even angrier. Because I'm trying to have an actual conversation with someone and they go full middle school mode just for the kicks.

Hence our cries of joy!

I don't really want to piss you off, I'm just trying to make a point in discussion. I'm pretty bored. I don't hate you or anything.

I can't smell so I taste badly.

It'd be hell to be a sock with an ability to smell.

At least for a while, because smell adaptation.

How would you even know you're a teddy bear

That's racist. We're all equal lol

How does anyone know they're a teddy bear?

Being a teddy bear is a choice. We're not actually born that way.

I can sort of see what you're getting at, but at the same time I don't really understand your point. Is all music that qualifies as pop music objectively bad to you because some of it was made only to be a "product to sell" as you put it? How do you know which artists do and don't make music just for the money involved? I'm having difficulty grasping my head around the points you made in the posts above. Maybe I'm just confusing pop music and popular music here, hmm.

My criteria is very simple. Do you create music? Art. Is music created for you to sell? Not art.

EDIT: Also, "are you creating music for a salesman to sell" will fall under "not art" for me.

Not all popular music is objectively bad, for example Ylvis's songs seem fairly complex with all the elements I think a good music should have. At least this one, as I don't know many of their songs:



It's also funny.

And that leaves you with around 0.1% of all music and you can't even listen to it because it's literally impossible to find. That's why I called you a hipster earlier. If it's popular it's suddenly bad.

Edit: oh shit you said music created for you whatever that's still a close-minded point of view in my opinion

Also here's a song that came out 14 days ago that I was just listening to.



Is it bad just because it's new?

Alright, I get what you're saying now, but isn't it a bit unfair to dismiss certain artists simply as factorymade pop music? I'm pretty sure not all of Justin Bieber's music is like that.

Whoah. You're crazy. That leaves you with 80 percent of all music to choose from, and no one said anything about popular being bad.

Like I said, I misunderstood "Is music created for you to sell?" as "Do you create music to sell it?", and most artists do create music to sell it because they'd have no money afterwards.

I only dismiss salesmen as factory made pop if they are selling factorymade pop.

Also, I refuse to call them artists. Models seems like a better term.

*cough*stillpretentious*cough*

I can live with that. Mostly because it means I don't listen to Justin Bieber.

I don't either. I listen to Madeon and Chvrches and Kendrick Lamar and Courtney Barnett and a lot of different artists from different genres. But I still defended someone I don't really like that much and don't listen to because his music is valid and, like I said, not even bad. Probably because Skrillex produced it.

But it's not his music.

Don't get me wrong, I think manufactured music like that of Justin Bieber is shit. I still enjoy some of it for what it is though. I didn't say it was in the same ball park as anything that I believe takes talent to create, I just think it's all right shit music. Like a kebab after a piss up.

How do you even quantify what's good though? An example I'd use is "Cheer Up London" by Slaves. It's repetitive, basic and shouty, I still think it's a 'good' song though.

I'm not really trying to qualify good, to be honest. Too subjective. I'm just qualifying art/not art. I can't stress enough how much I don't care if people listen to Justin Bieber, though. Steph likes one of his songs. And she likes country music, and LMFAO, and stuff like that. She knows I think it's shit, and worthless, but she also knows that I understand that shit and worthlessness have their place in the world, and it's not worth caring about. Stupid fun be stupid fun and all. It's all about what you want to get out of the media that you take in. I have different goals in that respect than she does.

There's no excuse for liking country though. None.

I dislike my country

I dislike your country too.

High five!

Hands down, Trevor.

My little jokey response started a 2 page debate about Music.

I'm unsure if I should be pleased or not.

MOD NOTICE: This thread up to this point was split off from Bits & Pieces. Hope that gives context to Crashpunk's last post.

Now you're just setting me up for a joke about your wife's bad tastes in husbands, and I refuse to be drawn out like that.

Dang.

I think people often mean different things when they talk about pop, which leads to some of the confusion. Plenty of music that falls into the pop genre is made by people who want to make music, not just a product and is genuinely good, for example:

I actually like that but it's the kind of thing I'd probably get made fun of for liking.

If people make fun of you for liking Grimes they're not worth associating with. She's incredibly talented and makes music that's both enjoyable and technically impressive.

Yeah but she seems so... edgy.

A bit of edge is fine if you're actually good.

The problem with pop music isn't that it sounds bad (though to me it does, but as we've established, that's subjective!), but rather that the industry is rigged to prevent the popularity of anything that deviates significantly from the status quo. The music itself isn't the issue, but the system is quite fascist and insidiously hinders the expression of certain ideas. Of course, the internet provides a platform for music aside from pop, but you have to be a young, pretty and vapid pop performer more often than not if you want good promotion. Most people's tastes are developed by what they're exposed to by the radio and TV, and there just isn't enough variety if you're tuning in to the popular channels, as most people do. You shouldn't have to actively seek out a new idea, as with TV, radio and the internet, we have the technology to expose everyone with electricity to lots of variety and give them the opportunity to make up their own minds on lots of issues, not just music. Unfortunately, that technology instead is used to indoctrinate people into the "work for money, then use it consume the things made by more affluent people than you thereby making them even more rich" system.

In a nutshell: pop music is a commodity and is used to keep people poor and ignorant in the same way TV and alcohol is used, and that is the problem, not the music in and of itself.

Honestly, I don't really understand how anyone can think any entire genre sounds "bad". There are certain kinds of things I probably won't go out of my way to listen to, but they don't sound bad to me. I'd just rather spend my time listening to something I enjoy more (and that that is varies over time).