Considering I've never seen anyone in a trenchcoat, other than The Matrix, can someone tell me how one would be considered a 'poser' if one did?
Whenever I get one I'm going to wear it because I think they look awesome, not to fit in with anyone.

A couple of my friends are trenchcoat wearers. Not because they're goths but because they're geeks. The main difference being that they wear slightly less make up and are better FPSers than your average goth.

One guy actually bought a leather full-length trenchcoat that zipped up the whole way (a bit like neo's in the second matrix movie), billowed out at the bottom and was covered in random straps. He thought it looked good but he was all alone in that opinion.

I have a trech coat, and it isn't a goth trench coat or a nerd trench coat it is a gray/black colonial style trench coat, and I where it causally not to stand out, I wear it just because it is warm...and because I look like someone from the 1700s. Anyway why do you see these people on movies now and they are trying to sneak around in a trench coat. I mean if you are sneaking in the shadows with a big trench coat on your easier to see with a trench coat trailing behind you. If you wanted to be next to invisable you would want to wear spandex because there is no "wake" where you move from the clothing trailing behind you. So why do they?

I suppose no one would think someone in spandex would look cool enough. Also in these movies they wear reflective black jump suits. The key word is reflective. If you are trying to sneak around in something that is reflective might as well where yellow.

There's a bunch of reasons, the music influence of black metal plays a part, those dress Goth to represent Gothic music.

Or, individually, wanting to choose your own unique styles, so girls can ignore what glossy magazines tell them what to wear, instead choosing their own.

Or rebelling against society, being seperated from the crowd, easier to spot. Or even to represent Satan, but these goths are very rare, a 'la Marilyn Manson. Or just Goths are depressed, dressing in black and stuff to share with people the misery inside themselves. And finally, the Wannabe's. To tell you the truth, I fcuking hate wannabe's, they just dress to look cool, but fear the reaction of society, whereas real Goths don't give a toss about what society thinks or says.

I rest my case.

Viva la Revolution!
"Give me liberty or give me death"

Too bad the ones who really are trying to rebel are so indistinguishable from the wannabes and poseurs (unless you actually take the time to come to know them, which I don't). I just look for anything that looks like it came from Hot Topic. That's how I know they suck.

How could you like or dislike somebody simply because of how they look? I mean, if you have a phobia of their appearance, or find yourself repulsed by their ugliness, then you've got a legitimate reason to not like them. But otherwise there are so many factors to a person that you cannot possibly know about simply by looking at them. For instance:

-Personality.
-Accent.
-Sexuality. (bit of a grey area though)
-Interests.

The list goes on.

Ask yourself now, what have you ever gained by indentifying somebody as a goth?What does the name "goth" tell you other than roughly what someone might dress like?

I think you'll find your answer will be "nothing".

Wow you know that the person is a goth and therefore wears black, and might possibly like heavy metal. Hooray.

I think that they identify themselves that way. Not us.

I agree whole-heartedly. And if that word wasn't hyphenated before, it is now, by god.

Definitely. The original Goths were all the stuff the posers want to be. But it's completely un-original. If you want to be an individual, wear a furry pink jumpsuit, not copy everyone else who's 'original' in the city.

I'm kind of an asshole and I don't really like anyone who has a "style". I think that people should just be. Not go out of there way to be something. And so I call upon the wrath of the wiccan tree gods who will scratch you with their branches. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA TAKE THAT YOU DIRTY BASTARDS! IT STINGS, DOESN'T IT? yOU MIGHT NEED SOME NEOSPORIN! HA! THE TREE GODS HAVE MADE YOU SPEND YOUR ILLGOTTEN CORPORATE GAINS AT THE CONVENIENCE STORE AS WELL. TWO YUPPIES WITH ONE STONE! Okay. I'm sorry. I got a little carried away with my dumbass religion that is so obviously fake that even it's practitioners know down deep it isn't real.

I voted weird scary freaks just because well they are but I like weird scary freaks so I had trouble deciding between that and cool rockers haha, afterall I'm a weird scary freak myself.... but I'm not gothic but oh well. :D

Clothes don't represent anything. If you wear a certain type of clothing to identify yourself or make known your feelings, you're a retard. If I want to know your feeling about something, I'll ****ing ask you. I don't want to see it. And if you wear different clothes to rebel against "society", take 'em off. The extent to which society affects you depends on the extent to which you involve yourself in it.

Can someone define "GOTH" without the words trenchcoat, black, hair style, etc. etc?
What are these folks really about, aside from they have a certain "LOOK" that they use to distinguish them from the rest of the teeming masses ?

Imho, being a goth has nothing at all to do with religion. Where i come from, we wouldn't call ourselves goths, it's what the chavs call us because we're different.

Lol. Chavs. :D

Heh. Those chavs.

"Goth" is so general a term, I think it's impossible to give a definitive explanation of a goth without personal conceptions and prejudices getting in the way. From now on, let us think of Goths as an entirely different race. They are not united by any one set of religious beliefs, fashion, political/societal agenda, personal ideals, or anything of the sort. What makes them all goths is something much less tangible, something we may never be able to grasp. So let us set aside all preconceived notions. Goths are. They needn't be anything. They simply are.

I wouldn't be one, but I don't mind them, but that awful metal music!

Originally posted by TheRaisin:

Hahahahahaha... Wowie Zowie.

Yeah. Feelin' a little funky when I wrote that.

My point is that a goth cannot be defined definitively because there are so many types of goths. I guess I could have put that into fewer words . . .

You may have rested your case but it was not the luggage I was asking for. I wanted to know why Ann Neely, as a specific individual, chose to become a Goth.

I think its fine, just like Metalheads, as long as it doesn't unduly effect their attitudes. If you like it, fine, just don't be a superior asshole about it. I know one goth and a few metalheads and for the most part they are alright. They like good music, I'll give 'em that!

I think the majority of us are saying what I am saying
We are saying that we relize that they are part of society and we can see that, but we would rather not mingle with them too much, eh?

Shadowman, speak for yourself only. I'm fine with mingling with goths. I don't understand them as goths, but they're just people for god's sake. The fact that they're goths isn't going to stop me from hanging out with them. If I had any goth friends. Which I don't. But that's beside the point.

Exactly, if they where true goths would they have friends? No there is nothing wrong with goths, they could likely give you a good reason they are goths like I said maybe they are the only white kid in there school and dress that way because they know people will not mess with them. Its the fact that they want to be different so they act like alll the other goths to be different. Thats not different. Who someone REALLY is, is different enough. But after talking to a goth who is telling you how meaningless life is, I wouldn't want to talk to them much I'd say, but not all goths are real goths, there goths for another reason. I don't communicate with them much becuase they don't look like the kind of people who want to have a conversation. I don't really pay them much attention, just another face I suppose.

What you just said had nothing to do with your previous statement. You totally changed the subject. It would appear that you simply read the last three lines of my post and deduced my opinion from that.

Like I was saying, your opinion is yours and mine is mine, and mine is that goths are people and their being a goth has nothing to do with whether or not I choose to hang out with them.

So you mean they walk around with a little label on them saying "Hi I'm a goth"? No, I don't think so.

What is the benefit in identifying YOURSELF as anything? The whole point of identification is so OTHER people know who or what you are... not so that YOU know what you are. Who cares about what other people know about you? Why dress in a certain way just to let others know what you're like? If this is what goths were truly trying to do, then they would've all bought custom printed t-shirts with a synopsis of their personality and interests written on it.

And "Goth" is not an identity, because it doesn't identify anything. It's simply a loose term for a particular style of appearance, revolving around dark clothing. That's not an identity, that's a stereotype complex.

You don't look at a normally clothed individual and say he's making an goddamn identity statement with his clothing do you? Clothes are a personal choice, they reflect nothing other than taste in clothing. If someone is happy wearing it in public, then that means that they don't give two steaming shits about what you or any other person thinks of it. Their clothing suits them, and if you don't like it, it's fine by them, because they probably don't even want to KNOW people who're going to make comments about the way they dress every day.

Just because a bunch of kids who don't get it say that "goth is a statement", doesn't mean that it's how every "goth" feels.

Pwned? This isn't a game, it's a debate, grow up. On any other forum you'd be warned and have that post deleted for being a cheap shot, having no content, and being blatantly immature flaming/shitstirring and generally disruptive behaviour. Inciting forum fights is NOT a good way to stay friendly with moderators. Unfortunately, due to the limp-dick lax attitude of the staff here, little pseudo intellectual freaks like you manage to slip through the net. I wish you good luck when someone like DI finally gets pissed off with you. :banghead:

Wow. I'm going to wholeheartedly agree with this statement and loosely agree with some of the rest of it. If you ignore how pissed off he sounds, its not a bad little manifesto. On the other hand, the above quote only applies to how you percieve people who look "goth" and doesn't apply to how they percieve themselves.

I would make an adendum and say that some people probably are trying to identify themselves. I know people who dress like skaters, talk like skaters and think about things skaters think about because that's what they want to be percieved as: Skaters. I imagine its the same for some people who want to be considered "Goth". It seems Reptile labels himself Goth, and would like for other people to identify him at least partially in that way. Just because you don't wear a sign doesn't mean you can't let people know.

By the by, I don't even know what Pwned means, and unless it somehow has the power to offend me--which I doubt--it seems that at its worst its a bit out of place. I wouldn't even necessarily say it was that--since I don't know what it means.

And that is exactly what I beleave too, if they are a good friend then who cares if they are a goth or not. Is that what you beleave too?

heh...pwned. :)

Exactly, Shadowman. I think some things got lost in translation there. That's exactly how I feel.

Okay, let me rephrase my previous statement: "I agree whole-heartedly." I was not attempting to "flame" or "shitstir" in any way. But I see your point. Editing post now.

I commend you on your pedantic . . . ness (Dictionary.com is not as helpful a resource as I had thought), but I think you're overreacting. And don't presume to tell me about the rules, please. I'm fully aware of them.

You'll have to excuse the fact that I sound pissed off, because I am easily annoyed over such things. It really, really bugs me that a civilization which so arrogantly considers itself to be advanced, mostly still looks at people who appear "different" to the "norm" and makes up a load of crap about them.

What is the point in rediculing diversity? I mean, we don't laugh at someone because their nose is curved and not straight, so why laugh at someone just because they look different to the next person? I could redicule them by saying "HA! Look at you lot trying to copy each other but can't because your faces all look different!".

Just another one of those things I suppose. "The stupid laugh at the intelligent, but the stupid get hit by busses and walk off cliffs."

Not all people are like that just the averag bastard.

Might I ask, the average bastard is that of the average Joe? If so, don't you think the majority of us are bastards making fun of people who aren't like us, yet we show this type of behaviour to hide our fears of what they could do to us.

"That guy's wearing black, let's beat him up." That really annoys me, beating someone up just because of their clothing. The Republic of Ireland (or so I hear) is very violent against Goths.

Usually I'd be angry bout that comment but I don't know if it's true but where I come from all our goth's haven't been attacked.

The Republic of Ireland is also very catholic, I heard. Seems that some (ultra christian / conservative?) people have problems with things they don't know and of course don't want to know. It might bite 'em! ;( Fear is a bad thing.

I don't belong to any church and I'm unbaptised but I never had any problems because my "missing religion" and never had problems with other people when I were a goth. But I found that changin' your clothes don't change your mind and a little bit more colour in life cannot be wrong ;)

Quit slaggin off the green isle

Hey I like Ireland very much and want to visit it some day ;)

Heres a tip If you like warm climates do not come here.

Goths are most likely to come under attack from chavs, not religious fanatics. No-one deserves to be beaten up on the streets, least of all goths. They cause no harm. Chavs on the other hand...