I take it you're killing grays?

They've pretty much assured the extinction of the British red squirrel, so I kill red-gray hybrids and standard grays whenever I get the chance.

wtf. when did they start making different kinds of squirrel?

I blame god. ;)

I also hate it when people kill Rats, Mice, Pidgeons or anything else, i don't see the point in it. Especially when they could just as easily be captured and released some place else. By all means, release a Hawk into the air to deal with them, but why resort to shooting them with guns, just so you can fulfill that primitive need to hunt?

The Rabbit that SS did kill, didn't deserve to be killed because, i assume, it was in a hutch. Thus, it couldn't exactly hop away and be a nuisance someplace else. He could have released it, or ate it, but instead decided to kill it in the most horrific way possible. Fire.

Killing random animals for nothing else but fun is pathetic, and it happens more and more in Britain, from people nailing dead Cats to doors to hacking off the back legs of a Deer. And you can guarantee the perpetrators also justified it some way by saying they had some "foul disease" or were a "nuisance".

Sure, the Grey has been a bastard and practically killed off the Red, but let nature sort it out. Not some overhyped teen who's seething with so much testosterone his mind resets to that of a cavemans.

I sorta agree with Jacob, but I live in the states... All types of squirrels (almost all) are considered vermin, so technically, I'm serving my country...

We're only allowed to kill certain animals. The animals we kill are quite literally a danger to our industries, companies, and households. It's not a primitive need to hunt, hell I kill paper circles in my spare time. I like shooting - killing off vermin is not only challenging, but a service to the country.

Setting a hawk on these vermin creatures is no different to shooting them, with the exception that, your weapon will most likely die of a disease, and you don't actually control it.

If you read SligSlingers post properly, you would see that the Rabbit was actually escaping its hutch, and making a real racket in the crawlspace under his house each night, causing SS to lose sleep. The owners were reluctant to fix the hutch, and seemed glad that it was causing him problems, so he killed the pest.

Personally, I would've simply caught it and taken it to an animal rescue, where a responsible family could take it in. But SS snapping like that as a result of sleep deprivation is completely understandable. Although, to be honest I'm suprised he didn't just kill the thing and go back to bed.

Killing a cat or a dog is indeed a hienous crime. I would personally persue and seriously injure anyone who killed any of my animals, simply because I am so attatched to them. But something like a rabbit sits in a hutch all day long, doing nothing in particular - it's impossible to become attatched to an animal like that, and to be honest, from what SS tells me about the owners, I don't think they really cared anyway.

As for grey's, I rarely kill them unless I am in a place where I can use a gun without causing alarm to bystanders. In other words, in my back yard, in game parks, and in the countryside.

Foxhunting is wrong. I am personally against foxhunting, and beleive it to be nothing more than a form of sadistic ritual. The hounds, the dress, the dogs, all of it. It's brutal, the animal suffers a long, drawn out death. As a rule of thumb, I never take a shot on a vermin if I don't think I can take it out without it even knowing - in contrast, these foxhunters allow their dogs to quite literally butcher the fox, then as it's being slaughtered, they take trophies like ears and paws.

foxhunting is indeed bad... I would never participate... unless they let me do it without the hounds, without the fox knowing (I wouldn't be happy if I knew I was about to get killed), without the dressup, and let me use my own gun.

If they let me do it within my own preferences, I might stuff the damn thing. It puts the entire body to use, and is less degrading to the fox than cutting off an ear or paw. Not to mention if saves the body from buzzards and such.

The only foxes which need irradiating are the urban foxes. They kill a lot of cats, rip up a lot of garbage sacks, and are a general nuisance. Even then I'd never Stuff the animal though, it would be buried where it was killed.

fine.. buried, not stuffed...

I win. \o/

:D

this time...

Foxes rule.

I would've fixed the hutch myself. I could never kill an animal, no matter what it was. Squirrel, rabbit, rat, dog. I pretty much find hunting, in general, to be pretty much worthless. Going out into the wilderness where you don't belong, and popping an utterly defenseless deer, rabbit, etc... with no way to fight back just seems wrong. Shooting may be fun, and make you feel manly, whatever you like it for. But any live target, unless for a specific, justified reason against the individual, just doesn't float my boat. Domestic animal abuse just flat out boils my blood. I quite enjoy Jacob's opinions here.

And, for irony lovers out there, I'm currently listening to one of my playlists. And "Do The Evolution" by Pearl Jam came on about halfway through my post.

And... worst/whatever thing.

Though I don't like to think about it, I accidentally killed the first pet hamster my family ever had.I was back in, probably 1st or 2nd grade. That's more than I like to say, even. Sure, I was young, blissfully ignorant. But I still feel horrible. There's also some more recent, nonsensical things that most people would hardly consider wrong. But I tend to be a more moral person when it comes to anything regarding others. Except my mom. Because sometimes, she's just illogical or stupid.

ya, but you know your getting good when you blast a 3-inch bird out of the sky (while it's flying) 150 feet in the air, or getting a one-hit kill at a lizard running top speed across the campground. Theres a certain thrill at that point, that you can't really get from other things.

I agree. I can shoot a fast-flying sparrow out of the sky with an off-range pellet gun at 100 feet. Not good, but impressive for a dork like me.

Getting good at what? Ending the life of a living creature that certainly doesn't deserve death? I just don't see the practicality of killing things for sport. The bird wasn't expecting to get shot. It didn't do anything to get shot. You had no reason to shot it.

If you want a thrill, go pleasure yourself. If you want to shoot something, go paintballing (If you can face the wrath of cheaters and 10 year olds with rich daddies). Just don't go around flaunting blissful superiority. If you want an honorable head to mount on your wall, go try to wrestle a bear of equal weight.

LIKE US! o_O

Paintballing, eh? I used to but I grew out of it, I did enjoy pounding the brats in social arenas, twas fun. Shooting birds is wrong, I agree, but I do alot of wrong things and I find it as sport (as asinine as that may sound). Wrestling a bear would be fun, but I'm sure a bear fetus weighs more than me.

yes, I paintball, but at the end, your target is still alive... not the same, man.

Get your arses back on topic now!

Why do you have to criminalise sportshooting when in fact it's perfectly moral?

Hunting is worthless, yeah, because nobody does hunting anymore. There is a very select few, but other than that, it's all pest-control. The reason I kill these pests, is because I know exactly what they do. Seagulls rip up garbage bags, foxes kill domesticated cats, pigeons carry more disease than the common black rat did in the great plague, grey squirrels are making native red squirrels extinct, and the common brown rabbit multiplies in staggering numbers, devouring corn crops like locusts.

There IS a reason that we are only allowed by LAW to kill these vermin. You'd probably be suprised by the number of households that actually own a rifle and regularly take out vermin that stray onto property. It's very low - the majority of these animals are killed professionally by city and town contracted pest controllers. There are literally hundreds of rat traps around most cities and towns, and countless pigeon/seagull egg-killers. There is a whole industry market for contraptions that make roofs inhospitable to seagulls and pigeons. And there are numerous warren-hunters around the country.

We aren't the ones who control it, we just help, with our skills in gun use. The likelihood is, that most the animals you kill with a rifle, were either headed for termination by a professional pest controller, or were going to make a nuisance out of themselfs, or were going to die on a road. If you've ever been to anywhere like Cornwall in England, then you would know that Seagulls are MAJOR problem.

Now, I go Airsofting, which is very similar to paintballing but doesn't involve the paint. I do target shooting, and various forms of mockup counter-terrorism roleplay games. Guns and targetshooting are hobbies of mine, so why the hell not use my skills the help out my local area by reducing pest numbers?

And dude, I'm sorry if you feel that way about the poor, fluffy cute bunnywabbits, but maybe if you were a farmer who was about to lose his farm because huge flocks of rabbits were eating through your crops, then you might have a change of heart and kill the bastards. Otherwise, go fucking join PETA.

'The animals we kill are quite literally a danger to our industries, companies, and households.'

How many people in this day and age have actually died through a Rat scampering around minding its own business? Or a Pidgeon merrily plodding along, quite happy to peck at scraps of food on the ground? Or a Squirrel toying with its nuts? That's like saying those people who began culling Hedgehogs were in the right, when they could have just as easily removed them to some place else.

'It's not a primitive need to hunt'

Yes it is, because we don't need to hunt anymore. It's pointless. Unless you're living out in the wilds and need to kill Deer for food/clothing, you don't need to pick up a gun and blow the poor things head off.

'I like shooting - killing off vermin is not only challenging, but a service to the country.'

When i read that i immediatly remembered the episode of 'Southpark' were Stans uncle said that he couldn't hunt certain animals for sport anymore [or something like that] and so justified his killing of them by saying he was "thinning out their numbers" and helping nature along. You are not doing a service to your country because a couple of dead Rats are hardly going to effect the country on a whole.

'Setting a hawk on these vermin creatures is no different to shooting them'

It's very different because it's the way nature intended it to be. Nature did not intend an Air rifle to be pointed at the face of a small Rat, nature did not intend for that Rat to have its head blown off by a high velocity bullet, nor did nature intend for the corpse to waste away for no particular reason than a couple of teens to get their jolly's from.

'so he killed the pest.'

So, that means that if a Dog barks alot someone can happily trot upto it and cave its head in with a shovel? Or if a Cat defacates on somebody's Rosebed, they have the right to shoot it in the face with a shotgun? They're making pests of themselves...so, technically, people who are bothered by this have a right to erradicate them.

'it's impossible to become attatched to an animal like that'

Okay, firstly, Rabbits don't sit in hutches all day long if you look after them properly. Secondly, if you give it love and affection, you can become attached to it. Much like people who own Snakes, and become attached to them.

'As a rule of thumb, I never take a shot on a vermin if I don't think I can take it out without it even knowing'

I'm sure when it hears the whooshing of the bullet and the hot led impact with its small and fragile body it knows some c*nt has taken a shot at it.

'and is less degrading to the fox'

Ahh yes, because what's more pleasing then having your insides ripped out, being positioned in a manner suitable to the person who killed you and then stuffed with random material and stood somewhere the people who killed you can look at you and say "Oh yes, i did that. Indeedily, i did."

'They kill a lot of cats, rip up a lot of garbage sacks'

That's like saying "Let's kill a Lion for eating Antelope and sleeping.". It's what Foxes are supposed to do, hunt and eat. Okay, so they shouldn't be trotting around the city, but then again, we shouldn't have built cities in their backyards.

'Theres a certain thrill at that point, that you can't really get from other things.'

I know some people will suddenly think i've gone off the point here, but why not just do what that film portrayed [the one with Jean Claude Van Damme] were those people were hunting the homeless. I find no problem in that, as they're pests. Or, better yet, hunt people who are on deathrow. Or known Paedophiles. Or seriel rapists. Atleast they can think ahead.

'but maybe if you were a farmer who was about to lose his farm because huge flocks of rabbits were eating through your crops, then you might have a change of heart and kill the bastards.'

That's completly different, from what i'm aware you're not a farmer and so you don't actually need to kill anything, if you have a pest problem, fine, try and deal with it in a humane way. Unless the Rats are charging at you with spears and rifles of their own, i don't see why you have to kill them. Surely making them bleed and spatter puts more bacteria and disease in the air and ground than catching them and releasing them some place else?

'so why the hell not use my skills the help out my local area by reducing pest numbers?'

Why not use your skills to tranqulize them instead? Why shatter their skulls unfairly? Why not just put them to sleep and move them some place else.

'We aren't the ones who control it, we just help, with our skills in gun use.'

No, you believe you do. But i hardly think your helping lower the numbers of Rats et al. If you went around your town, shooting at random Rats that were posing a threat to people, then fine, that could be classed as helping. But you're not. Besides, my Nan lives on the outskirts of quite a rough area, and when going into town on a night, i never see any Rats, although it is known that they are there [droppings etc] so, i fail to see how you are doing a justice. Rats tend to avoid human contact, and thus barely have contact with them at all [unless they're living in their house] so you must sit up at night in your backyard taking pot shots at them. If you want to reduce a pest problem, get a Cat or Dog.

'The likelihood is, that most the animals you kill with a rifle, were either headed for termination by a professional pest controller, or were going to make a nuisance out of themselfs, or were going to die on a road.'

So? That's like saying the death penalty is fine and dandy because people are going to die soon anyway.

'If you've ever been to anywhere like Cornwall in England, then you would know that Seagulls are MAJOR problem.'

If this is about the Seagulls attacking people then why not just do research on alternative methods of getting rid of them? Sure, you may kill a couple of thousand, but that doesn't exactly stop anymore from being a bother. A couple of months later that thousand will be replaced by more...and more...and more etc.

In summary, by killing something you justify it by saying you're helping to keep the numbers down. When in reality you aren't. You are merely making way for more of their kind to take it's place and so the cycle continues with no long term benefit or solution. To find vermin, you must go looking for it. Rats hardly prance around in the garden, singing tributes to Donny Osmond until somebody shoots them. You have to wait for them and in doing that you are merely looking for a kill without reason.

The diseases that pigeons and rats carry contribute to the ill health of inner city life in general. People have died, and the reason you don't hear about it now is because it is being controlled. Although you may not know it, most areas have professionally employed pest control systems on a massive scale to help reduce the numbers of pigeons, gulls, rats, and urban foxes.

Jacob when will you learn that you can't solve a problem by simply moving the source of the problem somewhere else?

It's not "hunting". It's not a primitive instinct either. It's just a form of target shooting. It's hardly "blowing the poor things head off".

I don't justify it like that. I don't do it to "reduce numbers", I do it to remove the fucker from my back yard. They are a problem, they cause me a problem. If there is an infestation near my house, and rats or gulls or whatever start causing me problems, then I kill them. Simple.

Yeah, I enjoy doing it. Maybe that's a primitive instinct, or maybe that's because I like target shooting. Whatever. I don't shoot animals because I like doing it though. I shoot animals because I want my fucking garbage sacks to stay in fucking tact. I've also helped out some friends of mine with the extermination of a rabbit colony on their farm - other than that, I don't really have much "killing" under my belt.

No, they aren't. That's the job of the pest controllers, who do a wonderful and very humane job. I help this country on the smaller scale - in terms of my neighbours, friends, and street.

No, it isn't. You seem to be grossly unaware of the large scale pest control operations around the UK. If it wasn't for them, we would be OVER RUN. That's a fact, a cold hard fact. You have two choices if you have a gull problem - spend lots of money trying to deter them the "human way", or kill them off. Lets face it, if you were ripping up their garbage sacks, then they would probably kill you too.

You make it sound like I'm some sick teenager who captures rats sheerly to enjoy blowing their heads off at point blank range. When in reality, I am merely someone who has no qualms about shooting a rat if it comes onto my property. (unless it is, of course, domesticated.)

I don't track them down or wait for them to come along.

No. They do not. Because essentially that's just life. No matter what happens, the situation with dogs barking or cats shitting in your garden will never get so out-of-control that professional pest controllers advise the government to classify them as vermin. I can cope with the odd cat crapping in my garden, and my next door neighbours dog barking too much - what I cannot cope with, is disease ridden rats running riot in my garden, and gulls tearing up my garbage sacks when the local authorities are supposed to be taking care of the pest population.

No, they don't. I'm not saying what SS did was justified, I merely said I understand why he did it.

This one escaped its hutch on a regular basis.

But the owners of the rabbit that SS killed didn't give it love and affection. In fact, the refused to fix the hutch because they were glad that it was causing SS stress.

When I kill an animal, it probably doesn't actually have time to work out what it's hearing before it gets killed outright by a perfect headshot. I never aim for the heart, or any other bodypart, since that would cause a slow death. The bullet hits the head, and the animal falls over or just stops. That is when you know it has died instantly, and I've never had a kill where that didn't happen.

I've never done that, and I am in fact against taxidermy unless it is for museum/educational purposes.

Foxes killing a domesticated cat is perfectly natural, yes. But we as humans don't want it to do that. So their numbers are kept to as close to zero as possible in urban areas. Suburban areas are the entrance gate and training ground of the urban fox, and it is here that they must be killed or captured in order to prevent the common rural fox from becoming a common urban fox.

Cities start off as early human settlements, and move on to small villages, then towns, then big cities. Then they modernise to what we see today. The majority of the UK's cities have been there so long now that saying we shouldn't have built it in their backyard is fatuous to say the least. One way or another, we've got to live somewhere. And contrary to popular hippy beleif, we simply cannot live in harmony with nature. We've got to kill it one way or another, and THAT is just nature, life, and so on.

That is a fairly different thing. Yes, homeless people are pests, but they CAN be helped. Animals simply cannot be rehabilitated. They will just continue to multiply in numbers until they are out of control. However, homeless people, paedophiles, rapists, and murderers are all something that advancements in law enforcement and psychology can take care of.

I am not a farmer, no, but I do know people who are, and have regularly helped them out with their rabbit problems. There is no "humane" way of dealing with rabbits. You can't simply pick it up, put it somewhere else, then walk off, because it will come back. They are already in their natural habitat, so where else do you take it? The truth is, that moving the problem-rabbits to another area will do nothing more than move the same problem to a different place. They need to be killed to remove the problem - and farmers kill animals which threaten their crops is something which has been done for thousands of years.

There is nothing else you can do with them. If you move them into the wild, then they will simply attack and kill off the wildlife with disease. If you leave them alone then they just become more and more of a problem until they need to be dealt with.

No. When you shoot an animal with an air rifle, it breaks into their skull, burrows into their brain, and then stays there. There is a minimum of blood because the wound has been plugged up by the pellet. In a .22 rifle, firing shot with explosive charge, the hot led actually burns the inside of the wound, effectively stopping the bleeding. This is a method that surgeons use to make cuts that don't bleed heavily.

Because like I said earlier, that would just be a "same problem, different location" situation. It causes their diseases to spread to countryside wild life, and if you relocate them in a city, there is a good chance they will just cause somebody else a problem. There is no good solution to it other than killing them.

I am, just not on the sort of scale you're talking about. I don't wait for a rat to come along, or go out hunting for one. Simply put, if I have a rat problem that is affecting the nieghbours or my street, I deal with it by gunning them down, and making sure I've got the whole family. If I start seeing rats run across my back yard, then I get the rifle out, wait for it to come by again, and kill it. Simple.

It's just home pest control.

Sometimes that happens - you recognise the signs of a rat infestation but you see no rats. That is when you need to do a *bit* of hunting to find them, but that is the only hunting most people like me ever do. I mean, who the hell wants rat doppings all over the place right? Nobody.

Either you call in the pest control people and get charged rediculous amounts of money, or you do what they do anyway, and kill the thing.

No, I don't. I'm quite a sharp shooter, so when I spot one I can usually pick it off there and then with a perfect headshot. Yes, rats do avoid human contact - but that doesn't mean to say you never get the chance to take a good shot at one. You know when you've got a problem when you start seeing them often!

I have both, and the cat regularly brings in mice and small rats. The dog is far too passive to want to chase rats or vermin, since he is a grayhound. The cat regularly has to be taken to the vet to be treated for the various diseases these rats and mice carry.

People lay poison traps, that cause the mice and rats a great deal of pain and suffering before they die, and this is how most rats/mice end their life. However, if you ARE good enough to kill rats instantly, then it's a much more humane way for them to go. And because I only ever kill rats when they are a problem (because that's the only time I ever see them), it is to me a better way of sorting the problem.

There are no alternative methods. People shooting them from their homes and professional egg poaching teams are what keep their numbers down. Other than that, there is no other means of dealing with the adults. And the garbage collection people refuse to take garbage sacks when they are in cans for some reason...

Well actually, yes it does. Since I've started killing them, bagging them, and burying them, they've been leaving my house alone. These days, I only have to shout "SHOO" out of my window on the very odd occasion.

It may be replaced, but you'll find less seagulls attempt to nick your garbage. Somehow they just know it will be more risky...

No, I've already told you, I justify it by getting rid of a problem without having to pay the pest control people to come around and sort it. And the problem with gulls, well, they simply refuse to sort that out because they usually fly away by the time they get there.

That's where you're wrong. The ONLY solution, for both long term and short term, is to kill them. Pest control contractors are already doing their best to reduce the numbers around towns and cities, but for a homeowner there is little else you can do except either kill them yourself, or pay for someone else to kill them. It's not up to the homeowner to reduce numbers - it's up to the homeowner to erradicate localised pests.

No. Wrong. Massively wrong. I never go looking for them unless I find droppings around my property and need to work out where they are. Otherwise, I simply shoot on sight.

The gray squirrels for instance cause me problems sometimes because they steal things from my garbage sacks - most everything I kill in terms of pests has something to do with garbage in fact. Killing them doesn't do any bad - it only ever helps. I don't ever have to look for them - they come to me. If the pests aren't at my house directly causing me a problem then I do not go out looking for them just so I can have an excuse to kill something.

Nope, instead they choose to dart about your back and front yard, looking for places to nest and garbage sacks to steal from.

I don't "wait" for rats. I don't know where you've got this idea that I basically sit in my garden polishing my rifle waiting for one to come along and make my day. It's not like that. It's just the same thing as owning a mousetrap or leaving poison bait around the house. Except I can't do either because I have pets. What else am I supposed to do? Let them continue to rip up my garbage sacks and litter the street? Leave their shit all over my carpet? Make nests in my garden and under my floorboards?

Battle of the Redicuously Long Posts! Codek VS. Jacob! Who will win?

My opinion is this...

If you have pests on your property, whether it be insects or vermin, you have a right to destroy them. I used to live in the mountains of Cali, and we'd get mice sometimes. I'd find a few and would release them into the wild, but sometimes I would have no choice but to kill them.

Oh...and with this whole, "let nature balance the scales" thing...Well, humans live on earth and are on top of the food-chain. We rose to the top and are actually a part of nature if you think about it.

And a method the Jedi use with their Light-Sabers! :p

-oddguy

omg, they should legalize that. That would be fun, and more challenging. Plus a human opponent could fight back.. make thing interesting...

I agree with jacob on the rats and pigeons if you shoot them itll make it worse.Diseases are bad but how diseased is a dead animal lying in our streets and houses?And I completely despise hunting.I had saw a hunting programme where they hunted for a leapord.They couldnt find it find it so they killed a deer and left it lying there.eventually the sick bastards got bored of waiting and chopped up the deer.We are animals too codek.We are the dominant species here on earth but doesnt that mean we overpopulate?I see the point in killing old animals for meat and such but killing something and never even giving it a chance in life just plain wrong.Killing is not the only solution.we are overpopulating the earth but do we go about shooting eachother??no we dont.we die in time and that keeps it balanced.animals do the same so I dont see what the problem is.right now in scotland seagulls are overpopulating but we have a reason to kill some of them.They are attacking animals and humans so we need to stop them overpopulating.My point is theres no need for killing just for sport

In what way does shooting the animal make it worse? That doesn't make any fucking sense. Surely it causes more problems while it's alive than if it's buried or incinerated. That's why they classed the animals as "Vermin".

Yeah so what if you saw a programme on TV where some guys hunted a leopard? I'm not "hunting" anything dipshit, I just kill small pests around the house, in my front and back yard, and at my friends farm. I'm not killing a fucking leopard for god's sakes.

We are animals too, yeah, but we are at the top of the food chain. We eat tons of other animals. It's no different to ancient sheep farmers killing lions that stalk their livestock. We as humans have always manipulated and controlled nature. Better get used to it, rather than bitch and moan and be a big pussy. Animals kill other animals all the fucking time, just for entering their territory, or even so they can get laid. The point is, when we do it, every single PETA and vegetarian fucker comes knocking on our door demanding pages and pages of reasons and excuses.

And we do not kill "old animals" for meat. We kill them in the prime of their lives sheerly to selfishly sustain ourselves. We do the same to innocent plants and vegetation. Get fucking over it and grow up.

I'm amazed and very annoyed that you people are all too quick to say "killing is not the only way" but once confronted with the question "well how else should we solve the problem?" you either suggest that we "capture and relocate the animal" or you don't have a damn clue. Capturing and relocating is fine if you have hundreds of thousands of pounds to waste on enforcing the initiative, but I think you'll find the majority of the planet earth will disagree with you in favour of just killing the thing before it causes anyone else any grief.

We all kill flys. I personally do not beleive anyone who tells me they have never compromised a fly. They are a pest, but as far as you are concerned, they have every right to just buzz around your house, lay eggs on things and cause infestations of vile bacteria and maggots, which in turn lead to more flys, more bacteria, and more maggots.

"we are overpopulating the earth but do we go about shooting eachother??"

Yes, we do. All the damn time. Perhaps you haven't noticed but we have these big expensive things called "wars" in which two countries kill each other until one side gives up and surrenders, or worse, is overthrown. We also have murderers, and school shootings, and soaring numbers of other guncrimes...

The population does a very good job of controlling itself. Although we despise the way that controlling happens. So to say that really does prove your ignorance.

"I dont see what the problem is"

That's part of your problem right there. You probably have no idea just how much pest control is going on around the UK. The fact that an animal will eventually die does not keep the numbers down. One rat makes several new rats, each of those making even more rats and so on. The same with gulls, squirrels, mice, etc. If left unchecked, it quickly gets out of hand, as some areas have discovered.

These animals have it too easy. Whenever they want food they can just pick it up out of a garbage can or sack. Rummage through litter bins or pick up scraps from the ground. And most shockingly of all, they will even steal from people.

You can't just nonchalantly pretend that it isn't a problem because it is. You just refuse to awknowledge that it's there, because that would mean conceding that pest control by means of extermination is a justified excersize.

Perhaps you should grow up a little and really think about what you beleive in and how much sense it makes.

You have completely ignored and not payed attention to what ive said and instead repeatedly used the word grow up and pussy.And when I reffered to the leapord I meant they were killing an animal for no reason.I agree you should get house pests killed but if you kill them youre not going to bury are you?Thats like saying you have found a dead animal on the street picked it up with youre hands and buried it in a little patch of grass.Im not bitching and whining about killin animals for food here but im complainin about hunting.But anyway Im spamming but you two guys have just completely went off the bored with the magnificent giant long posts which noone has even bothered to read :P and dude theres no need for swearing you sound like a psycho

who says I don't eat the squirrels after I kill em?

well......... I don't.....

but thats only because some of em have rabies, or other disieses. I dunno if you can catch them through eating the animal, but I still don't do it. Plus, there is very little meat on a squirrel. If I was gonna hunt for food, I would hunt deer, or fish (with fishing poles, of course... unless I'm in a shootin mood).

I read it all. It's nice to see healthy debate and how both sides justify their opinions.

-oddguy :cool:

I too have read it all. They both have solid opinions based on reasonable conjecture.

which is why they shall burn....

Oh, shutup. Don't be biblical.

I haven't completely ignored what you've said, in fact I've responded to it all in detail and pointed out why it's wrong (in my opinion). Yeah, I told you to grow up, because that's what you need to do.

When I kill pests, YES, I bury them. I don't just leave it there to rot, because that's almost more disgusting that what the animals did while they were alive. I don't pick them up with my bare hands either, I pick them up using disposable chemical protective gloves.

This isn't about hunting. Pest control is always confused with hunting because all the people that like the cuddly ickle wickle amiwals think we use "pest control" as an excuse to follow up primitive instincts and shit like that. Probably because they think so much of themselves that they beleive everyone who kills pests will automatically change the way they do things just to get their approval.

Whatever, I don't really give a shit if it's primitive or not. If you want to call it primitive then that's up to you, but to be honest all I care about is sorting out the pest problem. I'm not going to go running to you or Jacob for a permission slip that validates the morality of what I do just so I can kill some bacteria infested vermin.

Codex poses a valid point. Pest control is by no means a form of hunting, but all you animal lovers with your beanie-baby collections see it that way. I'm not going to repeat what Codek says, nor am I going to preach it, but I find his actions justified and necessary for pest control.

Yeah, so you better watch out muthafuka cause now there's two of us. :D

I guess there are two of 'us'. But I have my reasons for killing things, even though most of them are for pest control.

Lol you still havent listened.I said I can understand why u kill pests.Im not technically an animal lover nor do I like crappy beanie babies.I just despise huntin.I couldnt be bothered to read the long posts but I heard jacob talkin about it so I thought ''ahh they must be talkin about that'' so anyway cant we just stop the arguement?Why the hell are we talking about animals?

You have no place of saying anybody is wrong until you've read the arguments on both sides.

'and the reason you don't hear about it now is because it is being controlled.'

Controlling something doesn't make it go away. The Pidgeons, Rats et al still carry the diseases, so, even if they are being controlled we should still be hearing about deaths and shtuffs. But we don't. If you don't want Pidgeons nesting near you, do something about it, like put spikes or barbed wire someplace so the Pidgeons can't land. If you don't want Rats nesting, block up all holes and access routes to your house. If you don't want creatures attacking your garbage, put the garbage in a trashcan.

'Jacob when will you learn that you can't solve a problem by simply moving the source of the problem somewhere else?'

Okay, fine, move them and neuter them.

'It's just a form of target shooting. It's hardly "blowing the poor things head off".'

Well, fine. Putting a bullet in the poor things head.

'I want my ****ing garbage sacks to stay in ****ing tact'

Put it in a trashcan then. Don't go shooting the bastards just because they see a free meal. How would you feel if some free food was lying around for you and you went towards it, only to have someone shoot at you.

'I've also helped out some friends of mine with the extermination of a rabbit colony on their farm'

That's different, that's out in the wilds and interfering with those peoples livelihood. I don't condone it, but i understand why it must be done.

What do you do with the Rat bodies afterwards anyway?

'spend lots of money trying to deter them the "human way", or kill them off.'

By killing them off you don't solve the longterm problem.

'When I kill an animal, it probably doesn't actually have time to work out what it's hearing'

Ahh yes, because i forgot you know what the animal is hearing and feeling.

'However, homeless people, paedophiles, rapists, and murderers are all something that advancements in law enforcement and psychology can take care of.'

Paedophiles can't actually be cured. And they're more animal than anything you kill, so it's completly justified to hunt them down.

'Otherwise, I simply shoot on sight.'

Have a gun strapped to your arm, do you?

'There is nothing else you can do with them. If you move them into the wild, then they will simply attack and kill off the wildlife with disease.'

If we moved Rats away from the sewer in the first place, they might not be seething with so much disease.

'These days, I only have to shout "SHOO" out of my window on the very odd occasion.'

I'm sure if i said "Shoo" to a Rat it'd run away...i haven't killed one, just because you kill them doesn't mean they fear you anymore.

I can't see if i missed anymore points out, if i did, i'll come back and sort them out, but most of that post was you repeating yourself, can you try and cut down the repeated bits next time. Thanks.