Returning to the original topic; the Big Bang.

I heard on a television documentary (I'll see if I can find a similar article on the web somewhere) a couple of years ago, that the 'Big Crunch' will not happen. The universe is expanding at an ever-increasing rate, and shows no signs of slowing down.

Some scientists also reckon that the 'Big Bang' was actually more like a 'Big Cold Fizz'. Not as dramatic, but still produces the same result.

Well the Universe 'is' expanding, with Nebulas' and Galaxies, and well it could just DIE.[unless GOD wanted to make it DIE= But not likely]

...Mudokon101

Pinky.. how can anyone be so religious?
How can you really believe in all that crap?
Of course there has been people when the bible was written because someone had to ride it! It has been proven (I don't know how you can proove such a thing) that there once lived this guy Jesus and I believe that. (There has lived a lot of guys called Jesus... :D) And he may have done some wonderful things.. like maybe pull a stick fom someones hand or something and then people have been very grateful to him and have started to tell stories about him and when they have spredded they have grown. Have you ever heard people exaggerating..?
I think that that is how the hole bible has been born.

I don't believe in god.Why should I? I once did but what good did it do? If your god is so mighty and great and forgiving why did he destroy the chance from all of us? If we are spiritually dead like you said. Why would we then even want to live? Why can't god forgive us? We haven't done anything wrong. If 2 human beings have done something wrong why does the great god punish us all for that? And if he's dissappointed with us why doesn't he wipe us fom the earth? Or has he gone away and left us here and forgotten us?

And one more thing..You're wrong. Dragandon's message was funny. :D

I don't know how you can prove the Big Bang! If you can't, then keep your mouth shut!

I don't understand how you can just sit there, and knowing that the truth is out there. We just did'nt got on this earth by some molecules and crap like that. How can you not believe in nothing? Something had to make life. That's crazy to think that the Earth just made it self and crap like that.

Ha, you are sooooo wrong her message was not funny. If I wanna believe in God, that's me. No matter what you say the more you insult him, the more I love him and have his back more.

Where you listen? I already explained why God did want to wipe us off of this earth. He did once but he would not do it again. God will forgive you, but it's your choice if you want to be forgiven and accept Christ in your life. God gives you free will, like Oddbodd said. You either follow God or Satan. That's between you and God. I can't help you, you have to help yourself.

To you it's crap, to me it's enjoyable. But I'm trying to please God and live a great life which I am, not please people like you and become an atheist.

You don't know anything about the bible so why are you dissing it? Why should I be an atheist? I use to but being atheist not the best and most exciting thing in the world. I felt so empty. It was dumb.

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

So where did god come from? If we had to be created so who created god? Where did he come from? Had he just always been there? Alone. In the dark. In nothing. And then one they: "Hey! I'll create some humans here!" Well there had to be something.If god was there in nothing.. and if he was there, there was something and there wasn't nothing. :D

Well anyway..It was funny to me. If it wasn't funny to you, fine.

And you don't have to please me. I don't have to please you. I'm just me and I do nothing for just to please people.

What do you know about my bible knowligde? I've read the book. And I have been in religion classes for 11 years and been to churches and I know what the book is about. The stories and the meanings in them. Well it's a good book.. I mean.. I think that people should live someway like that. Well not totally like it says there. I love so many things that are "sin"..
We people really are sinners.. All of us. It is in human nature. And someone wrote this great story about Adam and Eve and how they made it happen..

Oh well.. I'm sorry for calling you a fanatic. You can be as religious you want. That is no matter of mine. And I'm glad that you have found this thing in your life if it makes you feel less empty. That's good for you. But I like it my way. And you don't have to feel sorry for me because I'm not empty.

1. TRY READING THE FIRST POST IN THIS TOPIC
2. Yes, something did, most people agree that evolution made life. You don't belive that but I do. Why did you bring this subject up? I thought we were discussing the Big Bang.
3. Now you're being silly, the gravity of molecules pulled each other together to make planets, moons, stars, et cetera.
4. It was to me, and apparently, Fazerina.
5. I don't follow God or Satan, you're very very very very very very wrong on that point.
6. Why would anyone need help? Just because they don't belive in God.
7. Fazerina may know a lot about the Bible, for all you know he/she could be a Theologen specialising in Christianity. (edit: close enough)
8. No one's telling you to be one.
9. Are you calling atheissm dumb? Or your experience of atheism?

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Gluk Schmuck ]

You speak wise words Gluk Schmuck.
I totally agree with 3-9. Especially 5 and 6.

No, your wrong about that Gluk. I'm not calling atheist stupid. I use to be but I thought it was dumb. Majority of them are really unhappy like you! I can feel it in your voice. Also, you get so offensive when I talk about God and say that I believe in him? Why are you so mad Gluk? Faz? Being atheist I mean, it ain't all lat' or mad gravy yo. Are you saying that being a Christian is bad?


i am not very, very, very wrong about you either follow Satan or God. If your against God and don't believe him, then that makes you followers of Satan because he hates God and wants people like you to not believe in him or who rebels against him. You either with him or against him. But you wdon't read the bible, you won't understand. In fact, why am I wasting my time on you anf Faz? Faz is agreeing because he's an atheist. SO your wrong.

If Faz claims be reads the bible, then he would know the answers to the questions that he just asked me.

So Peace out my foe'.


Yeah we were talking about the Big bang until Faz or whaver it's name is brought the situation up again.

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

1. Sorry, my mistake.
2. If I don't belive something then I can't follow it, simple. I don't belive in God or Satan, I don't follow either of them.

Since we seem to have strayed from the Big Bang discussion:
To Pinky: Do you belive in genes and DNA?

Yes I believe in DNA and Genetics. What does that prove on creation?

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

It doesn't prove creation, it proves evolution. Well, it's one of the biggest peices of evidence that proves evolution to have happened.

it does'nt prove creation but evolution. Hmph. Then what would prove creation then smarty pants?

I don't belive anything proves creationism.
Anyway, I thought you were the one trying to prove creationism over evolution and the Big Bang.

I simply read a few of the first posts and i see no reason to accept the age of the dinosaurs skull. Carbon 14 dating is unreliable in my opinion as IIt assumes 2 things;That the amount of carbon present on earth was steady at all times and2;That conditions in the past are the same as now, meaning that carbon will decompose at the same rate

Dragadon,most of the world's creatures were destroyed by the great flood. People were being horribly sinful and impenitent, so god chose noah to continue the human race and then he took everything out with a flood. That's why fossils exsist

How does DNA prove evolution?Just another one of the incredible creations of god if you ask me!

Aha! See! That proves that you don't know what your talking about. I was asking you, what do you think proves DNA involves with creation. I think it does'nt in the creation case.

Hm. Ok But I often saw people explaining religious things to non religious. And the non religious always wanted to be right. Even if they weren´t.
Ok but I also think you souldn´t force someone to believe something. I also dont like missionaring.
Hey but even if you arent religious. Be more friendly when there´s a discussion about it.

(I wondered why there where only 9% religous in finland (that´s whats the statistic said) But if everybody thinks like you. By the way: You said you once believed in god and now you dont. Why have you believed in him? And now not. I didn´t understand this. )

Oh please statikk...there was a great flood...but not a globial one. There was a study some years ago on the great flood and they determined that it happened only around the Black Sea. Remember, at the time the bible was written...the people of europe/Asia/Africa didn't know the Americas even existed and that the world was flat and the earth revolved around the sun. And even if the poles melted completely, it would not be enough water to completely cover all the land on the planet...even if you took all the moisture out of the air, plant and animal life. Even if there was...Noah and company would have been suffering from lack of oxygen...due to having to be higher the Everest...and dont tell me that 'god' put all the extra water there and then took it away when the flood was finished...thats just plain ridiculous....
Edit: oh and...Dinosaurs lived 65 million years BEFORE humans came into being...so it is IMPOSSIBLE for man and dinosaur to have lived together...unless you count birds (the dinosaurs desendents IMHO)

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Dragadon ]

Dragadon, this can be explained by thinking of the world shielded by not only an ozone layer, but by a thick mist of water. God just jropped the bomb, so to speak.

*laughs insanely* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! *cough cough hack* Sorry...but remember...mist is more air then water...even if it was of equal parts...gravity would have pulled it down. Besides...its been proven that there is an ozone up there...not a thick shroud of mist. even if there was...the air to water ratio would prevent it from still being enough water to cover every rock and sand grain. sorry...that 'theory' won't work.

Sydney, I tried hard to imagine a contracting universe behaving like a rewinding version of our expanding one, but my efforts weren't enough. Then I tried to stick to the exact event when (or where) the expanding universe stops to expand, and starts to contract. Even though I coudn't see how all the laws of physics would be subverted to make time go backwards, for instance, unless time can be explained only as a gravitational interaction.
In my very, very, I said VERY limited understanding, I see that the gravity force is the major agent when we are talking about macrocosmic events, like galaxies interacting with each other. so, I really can't imagine your time-backward-contracting universe influeced only by gravity(at least near the "turning point" event), because many other behaviors are based in other forces, like electromagnetic forces(inter-atom interactions) and the nuclear forces (intra-atoms interactions) that wouldn't be influenced by gravity.

Dragadon, just to make things funnier, let's imagine this theory: if the surface of earth was smooth like a perfect sphere, the ammount of water that exist in the world would create a layer of at least a mile, sufficient to cover any human building by the time of the "great flood" (even the Babel Tower). Now, knowing that the surface of the Earth is continuously changing because of the moving tectonic plates, it could be argued that, at the time of the "great flood", the average altitude of Emmerse land was lower than today: remember that the Himalaia was created by the convergence of the Indian plate and the Eurasian plate, and many other mountain systems can be explained the same way, like the Andes and the North-American mountains of the west), the great depressions of the ocean floors were also created by convergent tectonic plates.

Anyway, with the right conditions, it is possible to explain a macroevent known as the "great flood" based on tectonic plates, providing that you completely discard the well known fact that they move only a few inches a year, and it would be necessary millions of years to make the water to flood everything, and another millions of years to make the land to rise high enough and the ocean floor to go deeper(the asian trenchs) and wider (the atlantic ocean floor), so that we would have the actual world geography, not to mention what kind of world climatic event made the polar ice to melt down and to become solid again...

A last thought: tectonic plates could move way much faster in the old days of the big flood... oh well... :rolleyes:

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Lampion ]

I have a strange theory concerning the center of the universe, which may be wrong and off the subject. But I figured this would be the topic to do it in. Supposedly, there is no center to the universe, right? Well, everything that is physically present has a center. Well, if the universe has no center, then it doesn't exist. If the universe doesn't exist, I am not typing this post right now, except, maybe, on a mental plane. Plus, the universe in infinite, and not just physically. Of course, outside of the universe there is a void, but there really is no universe, so the universe is infinite. But, everything inside the infinite universe is infinite. For example, time. Time has to be broken down infinitely. There is no end to time. You can break it down as far as you like past picoseconds, and you will always find that it goes on forever. So time was here before everything existed, but it wasn't. Which brings up another topic. It is here, yet it isn't. It's a paradox. I've come to the conclusion that everything in the universe, including the universe itself, is a paradox. Well, I will stop ranting now. Shoot it out of the sky if you wish. I never said I was the smartest person here.

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Joe the Intern ]

So if nothing bad was ment to be in the world why did he make the bad apple tree?

Lampion, Humans haven't been around that long.

Middlesboogie: The observation that the Universe will continue expanding forever has one crucial flaw: If it were true, there would not be enough gravity in the universe to hold Galaxies together. The fact that galaxies DO stay together means that there must be more matter out there than we can see, hence the search for Dark Matter [Neutrinos, WIMPs, MACHOs, VMOs, etc.]. The Observable Fact that galaxies stay together means that there must be enough matter in the universe to cause it to fall back on itself. So, basing our theories just on observable facts, it is impossible for it to either carry on expanding forever or to collapse in on itself. Therefore there must be something that scientists don't know about, e.g. Dark Matter. Bleurgh, that was a longwinded way of saying that scientists haven't a clue...

:mad: :mad: :mad: Pinky, you keep asking for proof of the Big Bang, but when I give you it, you ignore it! I'm going to post this again, and this time READ IT:

Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation
There is observable radiation (in the microwave portion of the electromagnetic spectrum) left over from the big bang. It is considered [by sensible, reasonable, non-fundamentalist people] to be proof of the Big Bang.

Big Bang Nucleosynthesis
Lighter elements, such as Hydrogen, Helium and Lithium, were formed as a result of the big bang in a process called big bang nucleosynthesis. Scientists can calculate how much of which elements were formed, and the fact that observation agrees with calculation is considered proof of the Big Bang Theory.

Hubble Expansion
It can be observed with telescopes [by measuring the Red-Shift] that all of the galaxies in the Universe (outside the local group of galaxies) appear to be moving away from us, implying that the Universe is expanding. The phenomenon was discovered by Edwin Hubble in 1929, and is generally considered to be proof of the Big Bang Theory.

Yep, I know. In case you didn't notice, I was making fun with Dragadon because of StatiKk's posts, by trying to elaborate a complex, yet totally WRONG theory about the "great flood." :) :) :)

[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Lampion ]

Oh My Gosh, your an immature man! You can't prove a thing that the flood was a theory! Which it was not a theory. Don't destroy people's belief's, that's not right!

Rettick, I already saw your so called proof. That's still nothing. How can they be so sure? No matter what you say, I am going to believe in creationism and there's nothing you can say to change my mind about God not existing! :mad:

So just stop proving that it happened okay? I don't want to hear you guys saying that were wrong and you guys think your right. Your guys might be wrong also. When if you are wrong? Hmmmmmm????

[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

Hmm... "can't disprove a theory", therefore is "immature"... No, can't see where you got that one from...

Anyway, why should he have to prove that it didn't happen? The burden of proof is on you to prove that it did...

Well, what do you explain the creation on earth? The fall od dinosaurs than? Hmmmmm???