That's the stuff I want.

Anyway, is sligco in the following thread worth of shit-kicking? He constantly uses chatspeak after everyone's told him not to, and his excuse is that he's dumb.

http://www.oddworldforums.net/showth...130#post206130

Bah, you drama queen. Who gets their blood pressure up over something from a forum (unless it's a heated, serious debate)? Let the moderators do their jobs, get your panties out of a bunch, and calm the fuck down.

On a related note, telling someone he or she made a stupid mistake is one thing. The person will usually be aplogetic and learn from that mistake. On the other hand, making someone believe he or she is stupid will do nothing but create a self-fulfilling prophecy. One who believes he or she is stupid will often continue doing stupid things because that is expected.

EDIT: Kimon, there is no rule against chatspeak.

Wise words, but the point is that if a person makes a mistake, the forum members will counsel them. But if the person ignores our counsel and does the same thing again, punishment is in order. While it's true that being told that you're dumb enforces that idea on a person, being dumb with no retribution won't help either. At least with letting a person know they're dumb makes them aware of it.

That's true, but es mucho annoying. And I was mostly referring to his last post. Plus, he kept using it after a mod told him not to.

I never said it was an exact interger. I put the "Or so" in there because I wasn't sure. Fine, 3 or so years.

Jesus.

Anyway, the answer Alcar gave us is obviously a no. And when one of the Forum Admins says "no," it's kind of a pointless move to keep fighting for it.

But you go ahead and keep doing that, it seems like "No" from Alcar isn't enough.

My god, if it's not the spammers, it's these guys who want to play "online bully."

Here we go... the usual "OMG why does it matter? it's just an internet forum on the internet on a computer screen made of pixels" routine. As a person who used to run and admin a forum, I've read it a million times over, and I can safely say it has to be about THE most overused attempt to remove weight or point from the discussion while insinuating that the person that the comment is directed at are retarded/petty/pathetic simply for even having emotions stimulated by a FORUM of all things (As if that's unreasonable), and it almost always never works, if anything it usually just exacerbates the situation and drags whomever makes the comment into a long and bitter argument.

It's clearly rediculous, denying the fact that these stupid people are annoying for the sake of discrediting the validity of a suggestion is utterly pointless, because what you are actually denying is that people derive emotion from a forum. What you are suggesting is that nobody finds idiots to be annoying, and that I am just strange and unacceptable because for some reason I get pissed off in real life when I read some words on a screen formed by pixels. If you think like that then you are not fully aware, or simply in denial, of the psychology, sociology, and community structure of a forum. If your logic held any weight or basis in scientific fact, then it would not be the case that people can get frustrated or even angry at computer games.

You have a discussion with me now, where you appear to be having an emotion in reaction to something that I've said, so by your own logic, why are you doing that if all this is all things done and said is a bunch of pixels forming words on a screen?

It's because that's not all this is, this is not just "a forum" on "the internet", it's a means of communication between people. But even if it wasn't, people are still emotionally stimulated by anything with the potential to emotionally stimulate. After all, books are just ink on paper forming words..but... well I think you get the picture.

Am I being dramatic? I don't think so. I think I'm reacting in a perfectly explicable manner, given that a forum is no different to real life considering that all it is, is just a bunch of people interacting. In a real world situation, if a person acts in a stupid manner, they get a predictable reaction, and it's considered acceptable - when you apply the same reaction to a "less real" scenario such as a forum, for some reason many people find this to be unacceptable or even bizarre behaviour.

But anyway, I've got another point to get to.

Dipstikk, I'm quite suprised that despite the fact you quoted me in your sig as "Dino, on close encounters of the dumbass kind", you pretend to not understand how frustrating these people are, and suggest that we're "cyber bullies". Come on, I know as well as you do that you find these people just as annoying as I do.

I can't emphasise enough to people, that what I am NOT proposing is flaming newbies who make mistakes. I'm proposing that we be allowed to show our discontent for people who continue to behave very stupidly despite constructive helpful advice from members and moderators.

I hate them as much as you, but my views on dealing with them has changed since I posted that quote in my signature. I think that if they cause a problem, it should be dealt with then and ONLY then. I no longer feel the need to brutalize them, though my comments may continue to be harsh. But if they're not doing anything at the moment, it's pointless to humiliate them, especially not to the point of driving them out.

On the subject of the signature quote: It was partially because I thought it was well-worded and funny that I added it to my signature. I had a different opinion of new members then I do now. However, for the sake of preserving that quote, it will stay until I feel the need to remove it for another reason.

Dino, keep in mind that, even if you did serve as an admin on another forum, you are still a new member here. You may not type as poorly as the other new members do, but your actions against them still resemble someone who hasn't quite settled in. Also, if you're trying to make a name for yourself, this is a very poor way to do it.

Edit: Okay, I read the last paragraph again, Dino. I have no problem with showing discontent with repeted mistakes. If that's all that will be taking place, then that would be fine. But only when the problems are occuring.

Why are there so many new forum members trying to over-turn the forums? First the ClaireBear rebellion, now this...

First of all I'd like to state that Dino, you are obviously a eloquent and intelligent poster, as your posts are long and are well written. I am assuming that you [as you are an old forum admin] are telling us of a method that has worked in one of your forums.

However, if this idea was implemented in this forum, you would have alot of angry people having "a go" at you. So, think of the consequences to your actions.

Anyway, onto my opinion. I don't think this is a good idea because the moderating team have been doing their job well for 4 years [or more now] and I have only seen a handful of "Idiots" and they have been dealt with accordingly. If the "Idiot" persists, they are banned.

It's as simple as that, if this idea was implemented, the members would be flaming a banned member. So, this "Idiot" would either, not recieve the messages or not be able to defend themselves. Which is unfair to both poster and reciever.

Also, I think you would find that if this idea was implemented, most forumers wouldn't have anything to do with it, and you would be the only one.

It would also give the forums a harsh atmosphere and would put off any new comers. OWF is a caring community, with alot of sympathetic, empathetic and genuinely nice people posting here everyday. It would be awful if competent, nice newbies were put off joining because of the mistakes of 2 or 3.

Dino, most of your posts seem to be very controversial. And it's good that we have a member, taking an active part in the forum's well being and giving so many new ideas to the admin staff. But, another part of being intelligent [as I said earlier] is knowing when you're beaten and stepping down graciously.

Rexy

I agree with Alcar. I have to put up with annoying peopel at school, and it would be a lot easier to flame at them, but if you want to survive in the real world, then no, you just have to ignore these stupid people and get on with it.

Eh ignoring the n00bs will only make continue their mistakes. By n00b, i mean a member that makes the same mistake again and again, even though he has been informed to to do it.

I somewhat agree with Dino, but i also see the things from Rexy's point of view. I'd say that we should let the new member sttle in at first, so that they can see how things work. If they wont settle in after our rules, and wont understand them even though we keep tell them. Then there's no point of keeping them here, as the only thing they'll do is keep spamming.
Maybe the first 2-4 times they make a mistake, we should be nice to them. But i also think that the moderators should hand out more warnings... Not to little mistakes like a joke or something, that most people will consider spam. But mistakes that are dona again and again.

I was not implying that no emotions are to be put into a forum; I was simply stating there's no reason to get so worked up over the small flaws of a forum. Sure, people who repeatedly make mistakes, spam, etc. are annoying, but that's nothing to get one's blood pressure up too high. Spam and such isn't even a huge problem here in my opinion because the administration and staff do such a good job. When someone does something stupid here, I usually think something to the extent of, "Grr... Idiot, posting such a meaningless comment and spamming... Oh well, he'll be dealt with by the staff eventually." But I certainly don't think anything like, "Idiot! I want to beat the shit out of him for being so stupid! Rawr!" because that would be overreacting.

In comparison to a real life situation, if there is an annoying student in class, I kindly ask him or her to stop, like the members here. If that person continues, I ask them again usually in a harsher tone, also like most members here. If the student still persists, the rational thing to do is seek the teacher for help, like seeking the help of a moderator here. And if the teacher were to do nothing and the situation is extremely bad, I would then contact the principal, like an administrator here. Heh, problems here are taken care of way better than similar problems at school. :|

Fuck it. If you people don't get it then it ain't my fault, I'm not explaining this shit any longer.

If you want to get rid of the idiots then you're gonna have to stop being such wussyass peace loving hippies first. I mean god forbid you might have to actually tell someone off or even use a CURSE WORD! Sweet Jesus' fetus on a stick.

You want me to bash a new member? Here, you're practically new!
 

Nobody wants to get rid of new members. Suggest something revolutionary that doesn't have to do with degrading people and driving them out, or post something that isn't "Hey, guys. I'm high right now! I grow marijuana plants! I'm an admin at a forum! Embrace me and worship me in a shrine dedicated to my three-and-a-half months of being a member at a forum dedicated to a game which I've even stated that I don't have any intrest in!"

Stop doing that. Nobody thinks you're "cool" for smoking pot. Pot turns people into babbling drooling morons whos greatest conversations include "hey man, I am so high right now." In fact, nobody here could give two shits about your marijuana garden. How stupid does one need to be to let that become public knowledge? It's a fucking Christmas Miracle that you can even type whilst high.

Nobody cares that you're an admin. Being an admin at another forum does not make you a god as a noob somewhere else. You are a new member whos only seperative quality from others is that he talks big. You are NOTHING special here just because you run another forum.

There. I said it. Stop trying to be cool just to grab people's attention on yourself. Become a productive member of the forum, don't start this "revolutionary" crap, and stop bragging about the fact that you're using a plant to kill your brain cells because nobody fucking gives a rat's ass.

There, I did exactly what you wanted. I practically smote a new member here who was acting like an idiot and repeting his mistakes. Your dream is realized, Dino.

Hey, the point is that this may actually work for some members and it may make them either leave or change their ways, but some members will not put up with someone continuously cursing at and bashing them. It will only start a flame war with both the 'idiot' and the person attempting to make him/her stop making continuous mistakes. Then a mod may come on and tell people to stop (Like what happened in a thread in GD yesterday.) or the thread will more than likely be closed if it goes on too long. Heck, this thread is already turning into a flame war! I have no problem with giving someone a firm warning, but I must say that I disagree with constantly bashing them for a mistake. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, this is just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

We want to bash idiots, not noobs and Dino is clearly intelligent. This thread stinks of mawk and codek, but I don't care who Dino is. He's pointing out something, the fact that someone such as stingbee, who was a complete idiot and a dickhead who wound us up purposely after we told him nicely to read the rules, walked all over us. He wasn't banned, which appalls me. No matter how much he did wrong, nothing was done.

I know that the spamming problem here is non-existant, but that's what makes it so much more annoying when retarded 5 year olds start posting how much they like stranger in off-topic.

I agree that he should've been banned. That really bothered me as well. And yes, something needs to be done. But there's a difference in giving a firm warning to someone and then bashing someone (by bashing, I mean a post that is sort of like Dipstikk's last post.). My point is that I'm all for firm criticism, but not bashing. ;) But if you're for bashing, then it's what you're for and I respect that-it's your opinion, but it's just not me.
Edit: But quite frankly, I think people like this (the 'idiots') just need to be banned altogether. :/

I hate both Dino and Stingbee. What to do!

odd chick: nice argument, I appreciate what you are saying.

Alcar has known to have said that he hates to ban anyone from the forums. When we proposed to ban all the members who had signed up and never posted he was unhappy about it, he likes to keep members. He only bans members who threaten the security of the forums and the other members, or members who are uber anti-social.

If he won't ban members, our enforcement (you've all seen this, you all know threads where people enact 'constructive critiscism') causes them to change their ways, or leave.

Yeah, I believe I heard him say that sometime myself, but something needs to be done!! In my opinion, I just think the best way is to give them one warning (If they're excessively posting in the wrong places, spamming, flaming, etc.) and then if they don't stop after that warning, ban them. However, I'm sure this will never come about. :/ It's too bad, really.

Or, for a change, the enforcement of the forums could follow the rules or something.

Some forums really are no tolerance, but unfortunately because of the change in audience from intellectuals with AO and AE to pre-pubescent fools with MO, this forum is an idiot friendly zone.

If OW go back to their roots with dark and interesting storylines instead of Crash Bandicoot style, day-glo nightmare adventures, then we shall have intelligent order restored.

Also, some members have benefited from a few insults, that guy in fan corner improved his behaviour and writing style massively after Esus effectively called his story a pile of shit.

That guy....do you mean chirpy? Yeah, he has improved his writing style. I also gave him a few writing pointers, and I believe that that also helped a little, too.

Sweet. Now we can call the method of criticizing idiots "tried and true". :p

Anyway, I didn't read Chirpy's story after I told him off for spelling or something. Time to check it out.

EDIT: Just read the story, it still has some readability issues, but it was much improved.

Aside from all the other pointless drivel you posted Dipstikk, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Idiot does not = new member.

Yes I hate you too, in fact, why don't we all turn this whole thread into one big pissing contest in which we all tell each other how much we all hate one another. That should be some good wholesome fun.

I have a similar stance on this to Odd Chick, but I also believe in the old saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Is it possible for that quiz (I think Nate_dog_woof suggested it?) to actually be implemented? If it could, and if it needed typed answers (i.e. not just selecting one answer from a selection, as some people would just keep trying and trying until they got the right ones by chance), that would possibly prevent some of the real idiots from actually joining.

What I mean is, when someone registers, they would need to fill in the blanks for the quiz, which would probably be mainly general forum usage, and perhaps even some general Oddworld knowledge, seeing as this is an Oddworld Forum and we always end up with people asking obvious questions about Oddworld. Then, when the account needs to be approved by the administrator, he/she also looks at the answers for the questions and decides whether to let them join or not at his/her discretion.

No doubt some "idiots" would still get through, but even a small reduction would be better than nothing.

Trust me on this one, I have a very good knack for knowing what a member will be like within their first post. Sometimes I only need to look at their profile while validating them. How I would love to prevent the forums from suffering from these idiots (not noobs, just spammers, multiple accounts, etc), I know for a fact that it'd start another noob / idiot / naive / moron war again. And I just love them so much. Yes, ever so much.

The idea of a quiz being used as a barrier to the forums has been an idea suggested long before nate was a member. I suppose the only reason we don't do it is that everyone deserves to have a chance at being a member. It'd be like restricting immigration by using language tests. Which is so 1900's.

Alcar...

I'm taking sides here, but I definatley see what both 'parties' are stating. (Oh God, what a Libran.)

I completely agree with Dino, as said in previous posts. Yet, if we implemented this 'Nazi of Idiots' plan, we would lose some slightly coherent members.

Take me, for example. If you look at my posts from a few years back (2002, early 2003), I was a complete idiot. Look at me now! I use full stops and punctuation!

What I'm trying to say is, I'd like to kick the crap out of idiots, but they may bloom into marginally sentient beings.

It would be like [for those of us in Britain] UKIP or the BNP taking over, no one allowed into the forum, unless they're the *right* kind of people. I wouldn't agree with it, but I can see why many members would.

I know that you hate to ban people, Alcar, but I think that everyone's right about Stingbee. He was horrible and not banned, and we don't need people like that in the community. [I still don't understand why Codek was banned so if someone could PM me the facts, that would be greatly appriciated] but in my opinion, Codek, was a great member of the community and helped out alot, and yet he was banned. [However, I don't know the full story...]

Dino, you should calm down. If you hadn't blown up at people then you would be more respected, and any future ideas you have will be listened to with respect. [I know me saying this will end in me being flamed] But you're just annoying people, because you're new here and you're noobish. Like other posters have said, being an admin on another forum doesn't give you any status here.

We've all had to start from the bottom and "work our way up", it's not impossible. Just remember to think before you post, and try not to post whilst you're high.

It's your choise whether to smoke pot or not, but some of the problems have resulted because you were high.

I think, perhaps, that members who are unhappy with the way the forum is being run or have ideas about how the forum could be run, should either write about it in detail in a PM to Alcar or in a post in FS&H.

But you must understand that when giving ideas, you must have respect to the admins and other posters. I'm not sure about many other people here, but when someone starts swearing on a forum because people don't back their ideas, it puts me off even more. [But, the other members and staff must respect the ideas of the poster as well.]

People won't even consider your ideas, if you just whine and nag at them.

We get what you're saying, Dino. And yes, The OWF are generally not harsh enough, but it's been a nice, care-free forum for 4 years now. The staff here just aren't as harsh as you are, and I personally prefer that. They give constructive critisism, which helps the forumers.

Anyway, we have a democracy in this forum. Every year we vote in new staff [more or less], so the problem isn't how the staff treat idiots.

Rexy

You can actually add extra fields to the registration process, so that it emails quiz answers (or perhaps just a few answers to questions designed to catch out potential idiots) to the admin when it informs him that a new member has registered.

This is true. But I still the think the idiots of the forum should be dealt with, if not through a ban then through some other punishment.

Take the "Final Oddworld" thread, for example. Sligco was being a total ass. Even after the other forum members gave advice, he kept being a dick. In fact, he got even worse. Unfortuantely, the thread was closed before I could chime in, but it was pretty bad. In my opinion, what went on in that thread deserves a ban, but due to the laid-back feeling at this forum, maybe just a suspension would be in order. Something to teach the guys a real lesson, but not permanantly remove them from the forums.

The idiocy can be viewed in the following link: http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=12134

If you try see things in his own view, if someone dosn't want you to use chat speak, and another makes a big deal with and tell that Slico is a problem, it ends up becoming a fight. Slico was probably anyoyed that people just say it's cusing a problem and a huge fuss, now those are already pissed with Sligco, he feels misstreated, and would fight back aggresivly. And then flaming starts.