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Elliott Rodgers

Posted 05-25-2014 at 08:40 PM by Mr. Bungle

In case you haven't heard

Can’t help feeling that this Elliott Rodgers situation (and many other violent outbursts akin to it) is what happens when society is ignorant and/or unsupportive towards people with severe medical disorders. If he had gotten more help coping with his ailment than he did, it probably wouldn't have spiraled quite so wildly out of control. Mental health is extremely important, and if it is not taken care of carefully, sufferers can be driven to performing detestable actions as if they were nothing.

Now I’m not saying he was just a victim – obviously his personality was rooted in some disgustingly intolerant ideals – but I think there were many viable approaches that could have been taken to help him regulate and control these thoughts and vent them in a non-violent fashion. There were likely some issues in his upbringing that contributed to how he turned out as well - damage that can't be undone - but I doubt his condition was truly "unmanageable".

Hopefully some lessons will be learned from the whole situation (including ones regarding gun control, but I certainly won’t hold my breath), but honestly it’s more likely to simply be labelled as an unavoidable outburst, swept under the rug of society and forgotten in a few weeks’ time. Which is horrible, because that's just breeding the ignorance towards mental illness and instability which (I think) leads to most murderous rampages.

I guess all I can really do is get on my e-soapbox and rant. Like some disgusting armchair psychologist.

Comments 42

Total Comments 42

Comments

	tl;dr
	Posted 05-25-2014 at 08:40 PM by Mr. Bungle

	I agree. I have a problem with the fact that most of the discussion about him has centred around his misogyny. I'm not excusing him in any way, but there has to be a consideration of the fact that his views on women were quite possibly a symptom of his mental illness rather than a cause of them.
	Posted 05-25-2014 at 11:31 PM by Nate

	His views on women were influenced, and thoughts a surprising amount of people share. However, there's no way it could have evolved to the extent that it did without the aid of mental illness. I have no idea why people are having a hard time accepting its a combination of both. By dismissing one and only focusing on the others its just going to create more problems.
	Posted 05-26-2014 at 11:48 AM by Slog Bait

	Oh also I suppose the misogyny is a bit more of a problem when it gets down to it just because an overwhelming amount of people respond with something along the lines of threatening or blaming women for this occurrence, not even slightly acknowledging how fucked this guy was. idgi
	Posted 05-26-2014 at 12:05 PM by Slog Bait

When a white supremacist shoots up a synagogue or black church, no one has any trouble pinning that on his ideology. When homophobes attack a gay youth, everyone knows that this is a hate crime.

But when a man consumed by his hatred for women goes out and kills a bunch of women, it wasn't his misogyny, no! Surely it was mental illness!

You know what his ideology was, right? The kind perpetuated by MRAs and PUAs everywhere? That men are entitled to women, that being nice to them means you deserve sex in return, that violence is an acceptable means to get what you want from them, that women, especially feminist women, are responsible for all of your problems. These are not fringe attitudes, they are fucking mainstream, I see them expressed openly all the time. We love to blame mental illness for behaviours we revile or don't understand, but come on. It's not crazy to believe things you are told all your life. I've been a target for the same messages, we all have. Lonely, angry young men are particularly vulnerable to being turned onto this mode of thinking.

Posted 05-26-2014 at 03:53 PM by Bullet Magnet

	tumblr tells it like it is
	Posted 05-26-2014 at 05:50 PM by Wings of Fire

	BM, reread my comment. I'm not in any way excusing his misogyny. The difference between this guy and a white supremacist shooting up a synagogue is that we know Rodgers did have mental illnesses (at least according to media reports). I've got a problem with the fact that the Tweetactivists seem to be ignoring that fact.
	Posted 05-26-2014 at 05:53 PM by Nate

	The longer this goes on and the more people are blaming women for this series of events the more disturbed it's making me because I knew it was a problem but holy shit
	Posted 05-26-2014 at 06:16 PM by Slog Bait

	To be fair, people with mental illnesses already get it hard enough, don't need additional stigma, and are more likely to suffer abuse or other attacks than to cause them. But no amount of push-back against misogyny is enough. Those people choose to be assholes.
	Posted 05-26-2014 at 06:37 PM by Bullet Magnet

	That's some shitty job censoring FB names/avatars, WoF. Just sayin'
	Posted 05-26-2014 at 11:27 PM by Varrok

	It's not mine and I don't really care about their identities.
	Posted 05-27-2014 at 12:49 AM by Wings of Fire

	I think this is a really good response to anyone who is insisting #NotAllMen. Even if you'd never make that claim, it's a good read.
	Posted 05-27-2014 at 02:33 AM by Nate

	: When a white supremacist shoots up a synagogue or black church, no one has any trouble pinning that on his ideology. When homophobes attack a gay youth, everyone knows that this is a hate crime. I think the average racist/homophobe isn't committed enough to go on a killing spree tbh
	Posted 05-27-2014 at 07:14 AM by MeechMunchie

	Dude, seriously?
	Posted 05-27-2014 at 10:34 AM by Bullet Magnet

People with mental illnesses have it hard enough........ So we ignore the fact that he had one because it isn't nice to say it? These are the kind of games that extremes of both right and left play that just make me want to go hide in a hole. How do you ever expect the mentally ill to be taken seriously enough to be given the help that they need if we don't acknowledge the dangers inherent in mental illness? I fucking hate this line of reasoning. It disgusts me. The truth is the truth regardless of whether or not it hurts people's feelings.

Posted 05-27-2014 at 12:32 PM by OANST

	That's essentially my opinion on it. There's a lot of fucked up shit going on in this whole ordeal, and only hyper focusing on one or another isn't going to do jack dick for anyone.
	Posted 05-27-2014 at 12:35 PM by Slog Bait

My thing is that everyone jumps all over mental illness every single time, which only increases their stigma, and it is never about making it easier to treat them, because it never does! Not one iota of improvement is made after each of these events to address mental illness. So clearly it's just being used by the media to distract from other causes, be it the absurd access to lethal weaponry, and in this case, our culture's outrageous attitude toward women and their relationship to men. No one wants to deal with these issues, but it seems that they don't want to be bothered with mental health either, except where it is useful as a talking point.

Posted 05-27-2014 at 02:00 PM by Bullet Magnet

Don't have the conversation because the conversation isn't helping is bullshit reasoning. For starters, I'm going to have whatever fucking conversation I feel like having, and I expect everyone else to do the same. And secondly, you're flat wrong. The conversation about how we treat mental health issues has made great strides in the way they are treated, and diagnosed. Just because it hasn't become perfect doesn't mean that it isn't improving. If it was perfect we wouldn't have the conversation in the first place. But we used to use electro shock on gay people because they were gay people. So let's not say that things aren't improving in the world of mental health.

You want to have a conversation about gun control, or misogyny? Great. Let's do that. None of those conversations preclude the others.

Posted 05-27-2014 at 02:41 PM by OANST

Dude, seriously?

I'm just saying. You claim that if someone is both mentally ill and a bigot, then they commit a violent crime, we always favour the bigotry over the illness as a contributing factor, with the exception of misogyny.

Well, I don't. Racists are horrible people, but most of them aren't murderers. If someone with both backward views and a severe mental condition becomes a serial killer, yes, yes I will be arguing for better medical care before I argue for better education.

I might be an exception to the rule myself, but hey, it never hurts to pick holes in sweeping statements.

Posted 05-27-2014 at 04:40 PM by MeechMunchie

I'm not saying don't have the conversation, I'm noting that the one always does seem to preclude the other. And what good has it done? Since the last shooting? Or the one before that? Each one is only a few months apart, and are they noticeably driving changes of any kind, besides the kevlar school bags? I'm not telling people not to talk about it, I'm asking why the conversation doesn't develop, and why the need to talk about it doesn't improve.

Posted 05-27-2014 at 05:07 PM by Bullet Magnet

The conversation is developing though. The movement to provide mentally ill people with rights and the gender equality movement are slowly making good ground. Very fucking slowly. If you want to speed up the process you need to go and petition big business and the government. It's one thing to sit back and complain about these problems but unless you're actively participating in dismantling the 'patriarchy' and removing mental health stigma, etc, you're part of the problem.

I dunno man it's 1am and I'm tired, I'm pretty sure I'm addressing what you're saying but rereading I'm having second thoughts.

Posted 05-27-2014 at 09:36 PM by STM

The conversation does progress, and things do get better. If you can look at society over the last twenty years, and think that social justice hasn't made vast improvements then you aren't paying attention. The conversations need to be had. All of them. Often. Sometimes the changes are minute. Sometimes they're large. But whining about the conversation still being necessary is defeatest, pointless, and a waste of time.

Posted 05-28-2014 at 08:10 AM by OANST

	There’s also the third issue we can relate to the original incident which is America’s complete lack of gun control. Which I think everyone can agree has progressed 0% ever. He was mentally ill and had misogynistic ideas in his head, both of which pushed him to do what he did. But he likely wouldn’t have been able to do the damage he did if there were better gun control laws.
	Posted 05-28-2014 at 09:59 AM by Manco

	Did u kno where I live you can just walk into any shop that sells guns and if you're over 18 can buy one right then in there without having to register it or having a background check done? Fuck yeah
	Posted 05-28-2014 at 12:12 PM by Slog Bait

	yeah i suppose the true root of this issue is gun control... as with all similar to it. I don't think I'll ever live in the states as long as guns are so easily accessed by anyone and everyone. which is a shame because I'd really love to live in the states someday, if only temporarily.
	Posted 05-28-2014 at 10:43 PM by Mr. Bungle Updated 05-28-2014 at 11:04 PM by Mr. Bungle

	The lack of gun control in this country is a serious problem, and there's no getting around that. More and more people are recognizing that, and over time it will get easier to pass laws on it, mostly concerning background checks, but guns will probably never be really taken away from people here. Too much of the population is convinced that it's an inalienable right.
	Posted 05-29-2014 at 06:28 AM by OANST

That's so sad because it's such a beautiful country in a lot of aspects.

I think there should at least be a few exams taken in order to purchase a gun. Mainly psychological, to try and see if you're a nut or not before going out and buying a weapon with severe potential for extreme violence. Obviously it's not a perfect system but better than what they've got going now: "You want a gun? Here you go! Have fun."

Posted 05-29-2014 at 10:35 AM by Mr. Bungle

	@Mr Bungle, I've been living here since January and at first it was worrying, the idea that everyone you pass on the street might have something in their pocket that could kill you at a hundred feet. But you do actually get used to it. I guess it depends where you live as well, Detroit, MI for instance, is not as dangerous as Mexico, MO.
	Posted 05-29-2014 at 10:43 AM by STM

	Yeah, I'll probably end up living in the States before gun control laws are changed at all. Just wish that wasn't the case. Which state are you living in STM?
	Posted 05-29-2014 at 10:49 AM by Mr. Bungle

	I think you mistyped that. Detroit is the most dangerous city in the U.S.
	Posted 05-29-2014 at 10:59 AM by OANST

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