US Soldiers think dead Iraqis are something to grin about...

Codek · #1 05-20-2004, 04:12 AM

Bastards.

Make up your own mind.

Hobo · #2 05-20-2004, 04:52 AM

Sorry dude, that link just sent me to the AOL homepage.

Statikk HDM · #3 05-20-2004, 05:04 AM

Well, if you think thats outrageous you should check out what happened in the Rafah zone. During a harmless and traditional wedding celebration a gunship laid waste to an entire village. 45 dead, with 10 of them being children and 15 being women. This was a safe zone with no combat and yet people saw fit to level it based on ignorance. This also happened in Iraq and NOBODY CARED. Same thing happened in Afghanistan and NOBODY CARED. 45 innocent lives lost because people either were so stupid that they didn't realize firing guns into the air is a perfectly acceptable thing to do at a wedding. I don't think they were ignorant: The people in the gunship lusted after destruction and knew it'd be a perfect way to gun down some people without fear of retribution or chastisement.

Fuzzles! · #4 05-20-2004, 05:26 AM

Were these the pics you were linking to Death?

Pic 1

Pic 2

EDIT - A CNN article about the US's response to the Wedding shooting. Such a shame, they killed so many people.

:

Pentagon says it attacked fighters -- not wedding
Witnesses say Iraqi wedding attacked near Syria
Wednesday, May 19, 2004 Posted: 3:52 PM EDT (1952 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Pentagon officials Wednesday denied alleged eyewitness reports of a U.S. attack on a wedding party in a remote area of western Iraq, killing innocent civilians.

"Our report is that this was not a wedding party, that these were anti-coalition forces that fired first, and that U.S. troops returned fire, destroying several vehicles, and killing a number of them," a Pentagon spokesman said.

He was responding to a video distributed by The Associated Press showing Iraqi witnesses who said that at least 20 people were killed and five others critically wounded early Wednesday when planes fired on a wedding celebration.

A man on the video said all homes in the village near the Syrian border were destroyed in the attack at about 3 a.m. local time Wednesday.

The video showed at least a dozen bodies, including small children, wrapped in blankets for burial as they were unloaded from a truck.

Men with picks and shovels were digging a series of graves in the video.

A senior military coalition official said as many as 40 people were killed in the attack, but said it was his belief that the attack was against a foreign fighters' safehouse.

A coalition official said in a written statement that coalition forces conducted a military operation "against a suspected foreign fighter's safehouse in the open desert, 85 km southwest of Husaybah, and 25 km from the Syrian border.

"During the operation, coalition forces came under hostile fire and close air support was provided.

"Coalition forces on the ground recovered numerous weapons, 2 million Iraqi and Syrian dinar, foreign passports and a satcom radio," the statement said.

Asked if the incident was the same one described on videotape, he said, "Yes, it is the same incident."

He added, "We had actionable intelligence to go after a foreign fighters' safehouse. It is not our belief that there was a wedding party in the open desert."

The taped witnesses identified the village as al Qa'im, which maps show is on the Iraqi side of the Syrian border, along the Euphrates River.

Two U.S. soldiers killed
The report came as military officials said two U.S. soldiers from the 1st Infantry Division were killed in northern Iraq, one of them by hostile fire, and a Marine previously reported killed in western Iraq died of causes unrelated to combat.

A soldier was shot to death around 4:30 p.m. Tuesday while on patrol in the town of Muqdadiyah, according to a statement from the 1st Infantry Division, based in Tikrit. An unidentified gunman fired on the soldier's patrol from a cemetery, the statement said.

Another soldier died in an electrical accident Tuesday evening at a coalition base near Baiji. The identities of soldiers were not released.

Meanwhile, the Marines reclassified the death of one of their troops as "nonhostile" in a statement Wednesday.

The Marine, initially reported as killed in action, was assigned to the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. The death occurred in Kamah, near Fallujah, the the U.S.-led coalition said. Fallujah is a Sunni Muslim stronghold where resistance to the U.S. occupation has been the strongest.

The United States has lost nearly 800 troops in Iraq since the March 2003 invasion that deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. The majority of the dead have been killed in a guerilla campaign against occupation forces that began after the collapse of Saddam's government.

In Washington, the chief of U.S. forces in the Middle East told a Senate panel Wednesday there was no pattern of prisoner abuse by American troops.

But Gen. John Abizaid said preliminary findings by the Army's inspector general cite problems in training and organization and recommend "very specific changes."

"I specifically asked the [inspector general] of the Army, did he believe that there was a pattern of abuse of prisoners in the Central Command area of operation?" Abizaid testified. "And he looked at both Afghanistan and Iraq, and he said no." (Full story)

CNN Baghdad Bureau Manager Kevin Flower and Senior Pentagon

Codek · #5 05-20-2004, 06:32 AM

Yes, thanks fuzzles.

Fuzzles! · #6 05-20-2004, 07:14 AM

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Yes, thanks fuzzles.

Aaah no problem!!!

I'm surprised this hasn't generated more discussion.

Codek · #7 05-20-2004, 07:19 AM

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Aaah no problem!!!

I'm surprised this hasn't generated more discussion.

Yeah so am I. Thought this would be a big hit with PA, Majic, hobo, and all the rest who I don't care to notice...

DeBulletDodger · #8 05-20-2004, 07:26 AM

That’s just damn disgraceful.

Codek · #9 05-20-2004, 07:28 AM

:

That’s just damn disgraceful.

You hit the nail on the head.

And it fucking hurt. Don't do that again.

Fez · #10 05-20-2004, 07:51 AM

erm...........Death, are you okay? (Seems the right thing to say...)

Esus · #11 05-20-2004, 09:15 AM

Indeed. Seeing this on tv's news surprised in one way: It wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be. Everyone knew previously the US army was withholding more dodgy pictures, and I suppose I expected them to be much worse.
Of course, these current ones are disgraceful, disgusting and reflect badly upon the Yanks.

In reference to the village and wedding being destroyed, the US army did claim that there was satalite technology, weapons, and other items which the Yanks decided were inappropriate. Naturally, they slaughtered them all.

SeaRex · #12 05-20-2004, 10:25 AM

(must be read in deadpan voice)

"This is awful. Now the Arab world will hate us... this shall portray our country in a poor light."
-John Stewart

Bah, you just had to be there, I guess.

oddguy · #13 05-20-2004, 11:50 AM

That's disgusting. These people need to be locked away for a loooong time.

Weird thing though. How can AOL be in the UK and still be called AOL? America Online? I bring this up because death's link sent me AOL.UK

-oddguy

DeBulletDodger · #14 05-20-2004, 11:56 AM

Yer it does that we have AOL here never knew what it stood for but now i do... American Online something.

Jacob · #15 05-20-2004, 11:59 AM

Lol. To be honest is it really a big deal? Really? They could have done worse.

oddguy · #16 05-20-2004, 12:01 PM

Pig thou art, Jacob.

-oddguy

Codek · #17 05-20-2004, 08:22 PM

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Lol. To be honest is it really a big deal? Really? They could have done worse.

So you think it's perfectly ok for US troops to grin and give the thumbs up while having their photo taken over a dead Iraqi?

I think, to be honest, you lack conscience.

Statikk HDM · #18 05-21-2004, 06:26 AM

Yes it could be worse and it will get worse. But jsut brushing it off because it could be worse is folly. Let's imagine a serial rapist was going around Wisconsin (now that certainly wouldn't be the first time) but he says "Hey, why is everybody blaming me? It could be worse, I could've kill 'em!" Now the first reaction to that is to say that is a very stupid, callous thing to say and you want this person to be punished severely. This situation is just like that. I also don't buy there excuses and spin on this. They had "Bin Laden paraphernalia." What is that supposed to mean. And the AK-47s. To that I say big deal. Its not like I ever have to worry about rural Manitowac getting blown away because everyone has a Remington. Oh, and lets not forget the passports they had. That really means they're evil terrorists, I mean what the hell are a bunch of doing with passports in a border country? Maybe entering Iraq legally? No way! They're Al-Quaeda! Lets blow the hell out of their town!

Jacob · #19 05-21-2004, 08:01 AM

'So you think it's perfectly ok for US troops to grin and give the thumbs up while having their photo taken over a dead Iraqi?'

What's so bad about it though? These days people are getting so highly strung at the littlest of things. Big deal they're smiling over a dead Iraqi, i don't see why everybody should be all "O-M-G!! THEY'RE SMILING!! SWEET JESUS!! GOOD GOD!! NO...etc. etc.".

I personally find some of the POW "humiliation" pictures amusing, especially the one with all the POW naked and piled up on one another with the woman in the middle doing Jazz hands and smiling.

Fuzzles! · #20 05-21-2004, 08:04 AM

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the one with all the POW naked and piled up on one another with the woman in the middle doing Jazz hands and smiling.

Hmm well described. But I still think it's disgusting. I don't think any of the things happening on either side are anything to be smiling about.

oddguy · #21 05-21-2004, 08:06 AM

If you laugh at a dead person, you have no tact whatsoever. I was even disgusted when Americans were happy about Saddams sons being killed. Sure they were bad guys, but that just feels so wrong to me.

-oddguy

Codek · #22 05-21-2004, 10:27 AM

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'So you think it's perfectly ok for US troops to grin and give the thumbs up while having their photo taken over a dead Iraqi?'

What's so bad about it though? These days people are getting so highly strung at the littlest of things. Big deal they're smiling over a dead Iraqi, i don't see why everybody should be all "O-M-G!! THEY'RE SMILING!! SWEET JESUS!! GOOD GOD!! NO...etc. etc.".

I personally find some of the POW "humiliation" pictures amusing, especially the one with all the POW naked and piled up on one another with the woman in the middle doing Jazz hands and smiling.

OK, let me put it in perspective for you.

If someone took your friends, maybe a few of your countries soldiers, perhaps your next door neighbour, shot one or two of them, humiliated a bunch of them, grinned in photos they took near them, and got them on the front cover of nearly every newspaper in the world, would you still feel that it's not a big deal?

:

If you laugh at a dead person, you have no tact whatsoever. I was even disgusted when Americans were happy about Saddams sons being killed. Sure they were bad guys, but that just feels so wrong to me.

You know what? I felt exactly the same thing. It really brought home the horrors of war to me, when they said joyfully "we've got saddams two sons". I sat there for a moment looking at the television in shock, sat back, and wondered to myself whether I should be happy or sad - instead I just asked myself what the world has really come to for something like this to end up happening.

When I expressed these feelings to people, they just looked confused and like they had no idea what I was talking about - it didn't seem to occur to them that Saddam is now experiencing the trauma of losing his children, and that Saddam, and his two sons were human beings.

It was almost like in their blank stares they were saying "what? But the news says that they're horrible monsters... not humans".

Jacob · #23 05-22-2004, 08:39 AM

'If someone took your friends, maybe a few of your countries soldiers, perhaps your next door neighbour, shot one or two of them, humiliated a bunch of them, grinned in photos they took near them, and got them on the front cover of nearly every newspaper in the world, would you still feel that it's not a big deal?'

I really don't know...but then again that is seperate from the topic. Did any of you lot know the corpses? No. So i don't get why you're all whinging about it.

Then again, one could justify the smilingness by saying that the corpses [when alive, of course] would be/have done the exact same thing. And thus it's a kind of twisted form of revenge.

Failing that justification i still don't get everybodies outrage. Sure, it's kind of tactless, but really...what harm is it doing? So they're happy that they've killed someone and they're taking "tourist" photo's. No problem. Let them do it.

oddguy · #24 05-22-2004, 08:56 AM

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i still don't get everybodies outrage. Sure, it's kind of tactless, but really...what harm is it doing? So they're happy that they've killed someone and they're taking "tourist" photo's. No problem. Let them do it.

Ummmmm, okay...you can think that way. Most people think this is wrong though, and you don't...so in your mind, does that make the rest of us crazy?

:

You know what? I felt exactly the same thing. It really brought home the horrors of war to me, when they said joyfully "we've got saddams two sons". I sat there for a moment looking at the television in shock, sat back, and wondered to myself whether I should be happy or sad - instead I just asked myself what the world has really come to for something like this to end up happening.

When I expressed these feelings to people, they just looked confused and like they had no idea what I was talking about - it didn't seem to occur to them that Saddam is now experiencing the trauma of losing his children, and that Saddam, and his two sons were human beings.

It was almost like in their blank stares they were saying "what? But the news says that they're horrible monsters... not humans".

I feel the exact same way. I was shocked when my Christian friends were rejoicing in death. They reacted the same way your friends did when I told them what I thought...with blank stares. "But, they're the bad guys."

-oddguy

Codek · #25 05-22-2004, 10:58 AM

Jacob if I had a "respect for you" meter then you'd soon realise that it's just about scraping zero now. You seem to have no understanding of what is so disrespectful about this.

These corpses are (or possibly were) someones children. They surely didn't want to die like this, and end up with some dumbass American troops grinning over their corpses showing happyness about the death of a human. It's really twisted and fucked up that anyone should think that's ok and even acceptable. This is our own kind here, a living being that we should feel solidarity with.

Jacob · #26 05-22-2004, 11:01 AM

'so in your mind, does that make the rest of us crazy?'

No, i'm just trying to understand why everybody is so overly outraged. There are more things in the world to be outraged about people. Save your outrage for some of that, instead of Americans smiling over corpses *Gasps* Shock horror...!!

'This is our own kind here, a living being that we should feel solidarity with.'

Okay, couldn't you put that sentence in a less prickish, hippy-esque sounding form?

Right -
If the dead Iraqi's were killed terrorists then fine, i really don't see the big deal. If they were innocent, then okay, i can see why everybodies so touchy about the subject, but i personally don't feel "disgusted", "sickened" or anything else, because i really couldn't give a flying, singing, dancing Rats anus.

Just because they're "our own kind" doesn't mean you have to become pissed off when somebody shows glee in the death of another person. A Paedophile rapes and kills 5 1 month year old children...the parents find him, torture him and finally burn him. Rejoicing in his death. Is that feeling wrong? Should they be all "Oh no, we've killed a piece of scum...lets be saddened and ashamed of ourselves for doing such a tragic thing...*Sigh*". No, that's not wrong. That's fine.

Now, one could argue that the emotions these Soldiers were feeling was the equivalent to the emotions a parent would feel upon finding out her child had been raped and killed by a Paedophile. Thus they wouldn't really care and thus they would want to be seen rejoicing.

Now, i personally don't think any one [aside from a victim] can feel more pain, anger and torment than a parent realising that has happened to her child, but it was an example.

You'd be good at Human Rights, Death. They're always whinging about how murderers, rapists, Paedophiles get badly treat [that's assuming the corpses were Terrorists].

Codek · #27 05-22-2004, 11:05 AM

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'so in your mind, does that make the rest of us crazy?'

No, i'm just trying to understand why everybody is so overly outraged. There are more things in the world to be outraged about people. Save your outrage for some of that, instead of Americans smiling over corpses *Gasps* Shock horror...!!

You lack empathy, tact, and respect.

Quite bluntly Jacob, fuck you if you think you're going to make the rest of us look like we're overreacting.

Jacob · #28 05-22-2004, 11:13 AM

You might want to read my edited response as well.

'f*ck you if you think you're going to make the rest of us look like we're overreacting.'

Ohh, that's right. Swear and have a little tizzy. Enlighten me then, what's so overly bad about them...?

Codek · #29 05-22-2004, 11:21 AM

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Ohh, that's right. Swear and have a little tizzy. Enlighten me then, what's so overly bad about them...?

I spent the last 3 posts telling you what's so bad about them.

Since you didn't get it the last three times, I'll try and make it EVEN clearer for your simple ass to understand.

-This poor guy died at the hands of American dumbasses, and ended up with American dumbasses smiling over his corpse.

-America thinks it can invade a country, kill its' leaders' sons, capture its' leader, and smile over the corpses of the people they kill/humiliate while having photos taken.

-This sort of behaviour will stir up MASSIVE controversy in the middle east, practically undoing any good that America was doing there in terms of relations.

-This sort of behaviour will also incite anti US attacks, and more killings by extremists, thus America will bring harm to itself through it's own irresponsible and disrespectful foolery.

-The west and the east will eventually become more and more seperated the longer things like this continue.

-This will cause a WW3 if things get more volatile.

Sekto Springs · #30 05-22-2004, 11:28 AM

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-This will cause a WW3 if things get more volatile.

Not unless more countries get involved. Of ocurse, that's also quite possible.