Atheism and Religion: Your views

soulstice · #1 07-03-2005, 03:33 AM

Hey everyone,

Basically, I was just wandering about your views on the above mentioned topics.
I've been atheist from childhood now and my beliefs are that God surely was an invention by humans a long time ago that wanted to feel a sense of purpose. What are your views on God/religion or atheism?

Dino · #2 07-03-2005, 03:42 AM

My feelings are the same as this guy. God doesn't exist. Not in any form. Just as we didn't exist before we were born, we won't exist after we die.

Also my feelings are that christianity is arrogant, likes to assume that it's the only religion or somehow the default religion, and many parts of it like to impose themselves upon others. The only thing that I will ever believe in, is that people should make their own minds up, and not force their opinions on others, or attempt to convert people.

Personally I feel that religion takes the attention away from human achievement a little too much, requiring you to wholly acknowledge the amazing creation of a god. There are lots of people throughout history and alive today, who have done and said the most amazing things, and if anyone deserves our acknowledgement, it is them.

Rich · #3 07-03-2005, 03:48 AM

Oh no! An argument thread! Run away!

:

Originally posted by Soulstice
I've been atheist from childhood now and my beliefs are that God surely was an invention by humans a long time ago that wanted to feel a sense of purpose. What are your views on God/religion or atheism?

Me too. I agree. But I'm not going to disagree with anyone who does choose follow a primitive and limiting belief system though.

Dino · #4 07-03-2005, 04:06 AM

No no no no arguments please! I've had enough of that already... I think we're all well capable enough of expressing our individual beliefs without taking offense to the beliefs of others. Right?

And by the way, that stuff I said about christianity is the bad side of that particular religion, usually confined to American fanaticism, how the religion has affected society through history, and jehovas witnesses, whom I deeply disagree with, both in their belief that they somehow have a right to harass people with their beliefs and in the way the treat their children. It's not all bad, and in fact some christians are damn nice people. But Christianity is a very influencial religion that sometimes sticks it's nose into places that it does not belong, something that I've heard many christians say themselves.

Silversnow · #5 07-03-2005, 05:29 AM

I have lots of beliefs, but aren't religious in any kind of worshipping way. What is an atheist, exactly?

Rich · #6 07-03-2005, 06:02 AM

An atheist is someone who believes that God doesn't exist. Which myself, Soulstice and Dino believe.

Dino · #7 07-03-2005, 06:12 AM

:

An atheist is someone who believes that God doesn't exist. Which myself, Soulstice and Dino believe.

Yes. I believe that God is in fact a taco - and as we all know there's no such thing as a "taco". So that's basically what an atheist is, does that answer your question Silverwhatsyourname?

Fuzzle Guy · #8 07-03-2005, 06:19 AM

Sometimes I believe in God, mostly I don't.

For:
I survived the Huricane after the guy next to me said the most amzing prayer off the top of his head

Against:
If he exists why does he kill nice people off, the bad guys are always the survivers
How where Adam and Eve aroudn when we find evidence of Dinosaurs?
He never seems to answere prayers no matter who you are.

Overall, I can only find one reason for him being real, I can think of several others for him not to be

big bro boogie · #9 07-03-2005, 06:46 AM

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If he exists why does he kill nice people off, the bad guys are always the survivers

In some Bible movie, Jesus said something like: "At least God gave us the strength to do what we want to do." or something.

And if I have to think of God as the creator, I say: He made the universe and left the place, as a clockmaker makes a clockwork working on its own energy.

But I'd say I'm half Atheïst and half Hindu.

OANST · #10 07-03-2005, 07:15 AM

Dino. I understand why you said what you did about Christianity but what a lot of people don't realize is that all religions are the same. All religions believe that they are the only truth. It's not really arrogant. It's just that if one religion makes sense then all other religions must contradict that. And if you think about it Christianity really has the most loving followers. Have you ever had any Muslims or Buddhists knock on your door to tell you how to achieve inner peace or go to heaven? I haven't. Annoying as it may be (and I agree that it is) they are doing it becuase they don't want you to spend eternity in torment. As for atheism, it's not half as intellectual as it tries to be. Atheism is supposed to be based on pure logic. They say that they looked at the logic and realized that there is no god. Unfortunately, one of the first rules of logic is that you can't prove a negative. You can't logically say that something doesn't exist. Myself, I'm what you could call an agnostic. I don't necessarily believe in a god but I believe in the possibility.

Abe16 · #11 07-03-2005, 07:39 AM

...I'm a christian, i believe in God. Yup, i sometimes go to church.

Godlesswanderer · #12 07-03-2005, 07:57 AM

I'm not sure about this really. My mind tells me it's not logical for a God to exist but I want to keep an open mind just incase there turns out to be one

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Dino · #13 07-03-2005, 08:02 AM

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Dino. I understand why you said what you did about Christianity but what a lot of people don't realize is that all religions are the same. All religions believe that they are the only truth. It's not really arrogant.

That's not what I meant, and wasn't what I was talking about.

What I meant was, Christianity thinks that it's the number 1 definitive religion, so much so that it can encroach upon the rest of the world. In the past it has done some very horrific things, starting whole wars, crusades, killing people who didn't believe or said things that "offended" the religion. Christianity thrust itself into the topspot by force, it took power illegitimately, then justified it as the will of "god" upon the people. It's caused more trouble than it's worth or solved.

Moreover, it's the type of religion that monopolises, it believes that it's MORE equal than all the other religions. As though other religions don't have the right to practice what they believe.

Christianity is like one giant arrogant snob, not because it thinks that it's the right religion, but because it's done all this stupid stuff as though it's got more right to exist, more validity than other religions, and should be considered, and will be considered, above all other religions. It demands this, like a screaming bratty child, which ends up stamping it's foot when it doesn't hear, see, or get what it wants. It tries to change society, laws, and generally fuck around with the lives, society, and research institutes that belong to people who don't even subscribe to the religion. It thinks it has the damn right to do this - yet if any other religion attempted such a thing, it would be considered bad. "God" is default thanks to Christianity, so is Heaven and Hell. And the only reason it's so widely accepted is because it got itself to that position by force.

That is what I was talking about.

Rich · #14 07-03-2005, 08:33 AM

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It tries to change society, laws, and generally **** around with the lives, society, and research institutes that belong to people who don't even subscribe to the religion.

This is one of the reasons I dislike Christianity. Using it's huge influence to change things that are nothing to do with the church. And people who won't do things incase they upset the religious folks.

They choose to follow the religion so the rest of society has to bow down to someone elses beliefs? Rubbish.

On the other hand, I like Christianity as on a local level they're a pretty well behaved bunch. They send their children to church, not the ghetto.

Kimon · #15 07-03-2005, 10:02 AM

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Christianity really has the most loving followers.

You cannot lump all followers of Christianity together like that. There are people who are the all-accepting kind of Christians (which is the way it was meant to be followed), and then are the Christians who support the death penalty. That doesn't sound very compassionate to me.

:

Have you ever had any Muslims or Buddhists knock on your door to tell you how to achieve inner peace or go to heaven?

Have you ever had any Christians sacrifice thier life because they think their god wants them to? To me, that's being much more faithhful than knocking on doors. I actually agree with Dino on the overpowering Chrsitianty thing. It's more of a cult now than anything else.

And just to be fair, this:

:

He never seems to answere prayers no matter who you are.

conflicts with this:

:

I survived the Huricane after the guy next to me said the most amzing prayer off the top of his head

:

How where Adam and Eve around when we find evidence of Dinosaurs?

I don't know how that makes sense at all, but to be fair, tales like Adam and Eve were meant to be parables, not historical accounts.

Rich · #16 07-03-2005, 10:14 AM

The Bible isn't literal. It's a nice story that teaches you morals. It's when people take it literally without any open-mindedness that the trouble starts.

Kimon · #17 07-03-2005, 10:25 AM

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The Bible isn't literal. It's a nice story that teaches you morals. It's when people take it literally without any open-mindedness that the trouble starts.

Indeed. That's what I was getting at.

Are we really supposed to believe that Jesus healed a man with some mud, or that he fed 40 people with a fish and a loaf of bread? Come on, they're lessons, people, lessons!

OANST · #18 07-03-2005, 11:17 AM

I agree that at times Christianity has been perverted and terrible things have occured. I am simply talking about your every day Christian. And Kimon, I never said the word faithfull. I said loving. I get more than irritated myself when the religious right tries to inch its way into our government. They don't belong there. But at the same time todays Christian does not deserve the guff they receive. Terrible things have been done in the name of many gods. And it doesn't seem to me that most people have a problem with Christianity. The problem that they have is with their view of American Christians. They see them as proselitizing extremists who will stop at nothing to kill anything unique. There are some of these people out there but it is not the majority. It isn't fair to judge a religion by the acts of a few assholes.

AquaticAmbi · #19 07-03-2005, 11:22 AM

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That's not what I meant, and wasn't what I was talking about.

What I meant was, Christianity thinks that it's the number 1 definitive religion, so much so that it can encroach upon the rest of the world. In the past it has done some very horrific things, starting whole wars, crusades, killing people who didn't believe or said things that "offended" the religion. Christianity thrust itself into the topspot by force, it took power illegitimately, then justified it as the will of "god" upon the people. It's caused more trouble than it's worth or solved.

Moreover, it's the type of religion that monopolises, it believes that it's MORE equal than all the other religions. As though other religions don't have the right to practice what they believe.

Christianity is like one giant arrogant snob, not because it thinks that it's the right religion, but because it's done all this stupid stuff as though it's got more right to exist, more validity than other religions, and should be considered, and will be considered, above all other religions. It demands this, like a screaming bratty child, which ends up stamping it's foot when it doesn't hear, see, or get what it wants. It tries to change society, laws, and generally fuck around with the lives, society, and research institutes that belong to people who don't even subscribe to the religion. It thinks it has the damn right to do this - yet if any other religion attempted such a thing, it would be considered bad. "God" is default thanks to Christianity, so is Heaven and Hell. And the only reason it's so widely accepted is because it got itself to that position by force.

That is what I was talking about.

A religion is a thing. It cannot think/believe anything, be arrogant, etc. Individuals, who form masses, have done the atrocities you've talked about. The way you talk about Christianity as a whole doing those things is like saying alcohol is careless and kills people when it's actually the ignorant individuals who drink excessively that lead to the deaths of themselves and others. Drinking isn't the problem; it's the idiots who drink too much and do stupid things under the influence. Religion isn't the problem; it's the idiots who fear differences and do stupid things under the influence of their fear but use their god as their scapegoat (Poor God!). All religions have their crazies. Christianity/Catholicism is largest religion(s), so there's bound to be more fanatics from us. Blah, I'm lacking any signs of eloquence today.

I am a Christian. I am not arrogant or think I possess the right to impose any of my own beliefs on others. I do have some pretty set beliefs, but I don't hold them as truths for anyone other than myself. (I will never tell you that there is, in fact, a god because I have no proof to offer you and I find it just as arrogant for someone to tell me there is not one.) And I have numerous flexible beliefs and countless "religious hypotheses" as I like to call them as well.

I don't go to church because I think it takes away from the beauty of having a personal relationship with God, and I think anyone's belief system that is held for him/herself is just as valid as mine. I have many friends that range anywhere from atheist to complete Southern Baptist (which my family, excluding myself, happens to be). Also, I hate religious stereotypes.

That's all I really want to say for now. Besides, I know I've asserted plenty of my specific beliefs around here.

MojoMan220 · #20 07-03-2005, 11:33 AM

I'm agnostic therefore, I believe that it is impossible for humans to know what happens after you die. There may be a God, there may not be a God, there may be a number of Gods, etc. I think people who say they know God exists/does not exist, are clueless. Nobody can really know for sure.

Kimon · #21 07-03-2005, 11:40 AM

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It isn't fair to judge a religion by the acts of a few assholes.

That's true. Unfortunately, those are the ones who are most frequently publicized.

Munch's Master · #22 07-03-2005, 11:46 AM

I don't really know what I am. I sometimes pray to 'God; in the style of a Christian when I',m in trouble or sadness, but at the same time I'm skeptical of a life after death. I'd like there ot be one, but I don't know if there is. I have found though that whenever I pray, even with all my heart and mind, my prayer is ignored. So I don't really know if there is a God. I doubt it from a literal point, but I think there may be from a spiritual point. Do you follow me?

Hobo · #23 07-03-2005, 12:05 PM

I don't believe in the big man. Used to.

These threads usually end up with PA being flamed. *sits back in glee*

Dipstikk · #24 07-03-2005, 01:30 PM

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An atheist is someone who believes that God doesn't exist. Which myself, Soulstice and Dino believe.

Hey, don't forget your good pal Dipstikk!

Humans create things to explain what they don't understand. It's like how ancient people created fictional reasons as to (for example) why the sun rises and sets, what causes the change of seasons, etc.

Esus · #25 07-03-2005, 01:34 PM

I'm atheist.

I can't stand religious people in Philosphy class, thinking they can disprove logical theories with imaginitive beings. Whatever.

Statikk HDM · #26 07-03-2005, 04:15 PM

I'm a Lutheran, but many "Christians" are giving religion a bad name.

Jacob · #27 07-03-2005, 04:24 PM

I'm a sort of open-minded Catholic. Though i have a belief in God, i also believe in reincarnation and such. I'm not a devout believer of anything, come to think of it, and i loathe the fact that organised Religion tries to pry its way into Politics.

Blech.

Dino · #28 07-04-2005, 04:17 AM

The thing you all forget is that christianity is STILL trying to encroach upon the non-believing world. And don't try to tell me that christianity isn't an entity because it is - it's not represented by everyone in it, but rather a few people at the top who steer it in "the right direction". All to prevent it from being "offended". Why don't we just put them all on a big empty island somewhere so that they can be cut off from the world and never be offended by it ever again? At least then we would be able to get on with it and have our stem cell surgery and "satanic" music. I mean, as far as interfering with shit goes, Christianity has to be the number 1 religion. And it's still like that to this day.

Munch's Master · #29 07-04-2005, 10:14 AM

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.....Why don't we just put them all on a big empty island somewhere so that they can be cut off from the world and never be offended by it ever again? At least then we would be able to get on with it and have our stem cell surgery and "satanic" music. I mean, as far as interfering with shit goes, Christianity has to be the number 1 religion. And it's still like that to this day.

Dumping the Christian leaders on a remote island would be worse, it'd start genocidal wars betweeen Christians, atheists and all the other religions.

Dino · #30 07-04-2005, 10:28 AM

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Dumping the Christian leaders on a remote island would be worse, it'd start genocidal wars betweeen Christians, atheists and all the other religions.

Um, if you have the ability to be able to remove an entire religion and all it's followers from the known world and dump them on a remote island somewhere, then they're not only going to have nothing to fight back with, but also they're hardly going to argue with you when you demonstrate that kind of military power.

The most that they could do is throw stones that fall thousands of meters short of the offshore battleships and submarines stationed there to make sure nobody escapes.