PETA thread

[looney-bin]

Yeah man, I just hate those orginizations that oppose animal cruelty.

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/709.html You were saying?

PETA kills more animals than it saves. I'm all against animal cruelty, but those faggy Vegan extremests have been going the wrong way about things for God knows how long.

[used:)]

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/709.html You were saying?

PETA kills more animals than it saves. I'm all against animal cruelty, but those faggy Vegan extremests have been going the wrong way about things for God knows how long.

First of all, I thank you for brining up this movie. It opened my eyes to do a little research of my own. And I commend you for it.

Now here's my criteria.

As stated form Wikipedia:
-1983: successfully stopped a United States Department of Defense "wound lab" which had planned to fire missiles into dogs and goats.

-1984: released more than 70 hours of videotape shot in the University of Pennsylvania head-injury laboratory, showing the treatment of primates there. The Secretary of Health and Human Services subsequently cut off all funding to the laboratory and the experiments were stopped. In the same year, a Texas slaughterhouse to which 30,000 horses were taken each year from all over the United States, then allegedly left to starve outside without shelter, was closed after a PETA campaign.

-1985: revealed details of the treatment of dogs at the City of Hope laboratory in California. The government fined the center $11,000 and suspended more than $1,000,000 in federal funding.

-1986: stopped the total-isolation confinement of chimpanzees at a Maryland research laboratory called SEMA. Dr. Jane Goodall called her tour of the SEMA lab “the worst experience of my life.”

-1987: stopped a plan by Cedars-Sinai, California’s largest hospital to ship stray dogs from Mexico into California for experiments. In the same year, they launched the Compassion Campaign to fight cosmetics and personal-care product testing on animals. By 1989, PETA had persuaded nearly 500 companies, including Mary Kay and Amway, to go cruelty-free.

-1988: secret video shot inside East Carolina University and distributed by PETA showed an inadequately anesthetized dog undergoing surgery during a classroom exercise. The university subsequently declared a moratorium on the use of live animals.

-1990: exposed the alleged beating of orangutans by Las Vegas entertainer Bobby Berosini, who used the primates in a nightclub act. His captive-bred wildlife permit was suspended by the U.S. Department of the Interior, and his show closed. Four years later, the Nevada Supreme Court unanimously ruled in PETA’s favor and overturned a Las Vegas jury’s $3.2 million defamation award to Berosini. In the same year, the Caring Consumer Campaign succeeded in persuading Estée Lauder and 40 other companies to halt animal testing.

-1991: the Silver Spring monkeys case receives a unanimous, positive ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court, the first time that a case involving animals in laboratories had been heard by the court.

-1992: PETA undercover investigators revealed the details of U.S. foie gras production, documenting the force-feeding of geese. Police subsequently conducted the first-ever raid in the United States, and possibly in the world, on a factory farm, and many restaurants removed foie gras from their menus. In the same year, PETA testified at the first-ever U.S. congressional hearing on the use of animals in circuses, rodeos, films, and other types of entertainment.

-1993: General Motors gave PETA a statement of assurance that it had ended the use of live pigs and baboons in crash tests after a PETA campaign. In the same year, L’Oréal, the world’s largest cosmetics company, signed a worldwide ban on animal testing, following a PETA campaign. PETA also revealed details of scabies experiments using dogs and rabbits at Wright State University. The university was subsequently charged with violating the Animal Welfare Act, and the experiments ended.

-1994: Buckshire Corporation, a laboratory animal breeding facility, was charged with violations of the Animal Welfare Act after a 38-page complaint was submitted by PETA. A furrier is charged with cruelty to animals following the release of PETA videotapes showing a California fur rancher electrocuting a chinchilla by clipping wires to the animal’s genitals (to its genitals). It was the first time in U.S. history that a furrier was charged with cruelty.

-1999: a North Carolina grand jury handed down the first-ever felony cruelty indictments against pig-farm workers after an undercover PETA investigator videotaped workers beating lame pigs with wrenches, and skinning and dismembering a conscious pig.

-2000: successfully campaigned for 11 months against McDonalds to implement more stringent welfare standards.

My reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PETA#An...and_euthanasia

They may have a large number of animals euthanized, but if you have seen the kinda of conditions a lot of animals are in when they are uncovered, death really does seem like a kinder fate. PETA may be a little quick to go to the gullotine, but that doesn't compare with the enormous amounts of animal lives they have improved over the years. Many of the animals (or many more) they helped save would probably still be going through the same horrible life they were had PETA not been there.

If you read through the article form Wikipedia, you will see how much good they have done as well. Don't try and let their large amount of euthanasia turn this into a life and death matter. Sometimes no life is better than a bad one, especially for animals.

I still believe PETA to be a good orginization despite some rather large blind spots they have.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a solo to practice.

[looney-bin]

First of all, I thank you for brining up this movie. It opened my eyes to do a little research of my own. And I commend you for it.

Now here's my criteria.

As stated form Wikipedia:
-1983: successfully stopped a United States Department of Defense "wound lab" which had planned to fire missiles into dogs and goats.

-1984: released more than 70 hours of videotape shot in the University of Pennsylvania head-injury laboratory, showing the treatment of primates there. The Secretary of Health and Human Services subsequently cut off all funding to the laboratory and the experiments were stopped. In the same year, a Texas slaughterhouse to which 30,000 horses were taken each year from all over the United States, then allegedly left to starve outside without shelter, was closed after a PETA campaign.

-1985: revealed details of the treatment of dogs at the City of Hope laboratory in California. The government fined the center $11,000 and suspended more than $1,000,000 in federal funding.

-1986: stopped the total-isolation confinement of chimpanzees at a Maryland research laboratory called SEMA. Dr. Jane Goodall called her tour of the SEMA lab “the worst experience of my life.”

-1987: stopped a plan by Cedars-Sinai, California’s largest hospital to ship stray dogs from Mexico into California for experiments. In the same year, they launched the Compassion Campaign to fight cosmetics and personal-care product testing on animals. By 1989, PETA had persuaded nearly 500 companies, including Mary Kay and Amway, to go cruelty-free.

-1988: secret video shot inside East Carolina University and distributed by PETA showed an inadequately anesthetized dog undergoing surgery during a classroom exercise. The university subsequently declared a moratorium on the use of live animals.

-1990: exposed the alleged beating of orangutans by Las Vegas entertainer Bobby Berosini, who used the primates in a nightclub act. His captive-bred wildlife permit was suspended by the U.S. Department of the Interior, and his show closed. Four years later, the Nevada Supreme Court unanimously ruled in PETA’s favor and overturned a Las Vegas jury’s $3.2 million defamation award to Berosini. In the same year, the Caring Consumer Campaign succeeded in persuading Estée Lauder and 40 other companies to halt animal testing.

-1991: the Silver Spring monkeys case receives a unanimous, positive ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court, the first time that a case involving animals in laboratories had been heard by the court.

-1992: PETA undercover investigators revealed the details of U.S. foie gras production, documenting the force-feeding of geese. Police subsequently conducted the first-ever raid in the United States, and possibly in the world, on a factory farm, and many restaurants removed foie gras from their menus. In the same year, PETA testified at the first-ever U.S. congressional hearing on the use of animals in circuses, rodeos, films, and other types of entertainment.

-1993: General Motors gave PETA a statement of assurance that it had ended the use of live pigs and baboons in crash tests after a PETA campaign. In the same year, L’Oréal, the world’s largest cosmetics company, signed a worldwide ban on animal testing, following a PETA campaign. PETA also revealed details of scabies experiments using dogs and rabbits at Wright State University. The university was subsequently charged with violating the Animal Welfare Act, and the experiments ended.

-1994: Buckshire Corporation, a laboratory animal breeding facility, was charged with violations of the Animal Welfare Act after a 38-page complaint was submitted by PETA. A furrier is charged with cruelty to animals following the release of PETA videotapes showing a California fur rancher electrocuting a chinchilla by clipping wires to the animal’s genitals (to its genitals). It was the first time in U.S. history that a furrier was charged with cruelty.

-1999: a North Carolina grand jury handed down the first-ever felony cruelty indictments against pig-farm workers after an undercover PETA investigator videotaped workers beating lame pigs with wrenches, and skinning and dismembering a conscious pig.

-2000: successfully campaigned for 11 months against McDonalds to implement more stringent welfare standards.

My reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PETA#An...and_euthanasia

They may have a large number of animals euthanized, but if you have seen the kinda of conditions a lot of animals are in when they are uncovered, death really does seem like a kinder fate. PETA may be a little quick to go to the gullotine, but that doesn't compare with the enormous amounts of animal lives they have improved over the years. Many of the animals (or many more) they helped save would probably still be going through the same horrible life they were had PETA not been there.

If you read through the article form Wikipedia, you will see how much good they have done as well. Don't try and let their large amount of euthanasia turn this into a life and death matter. Sometimes no life is better than a bad one, especially for animals.

I still believe PETA to be a good orginization despite some rather large blind spots they have.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a solo to practice.

Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. Even PETA members. That's why this 'evidence' is dodgy. Also, if you think PETA are good, you've seriously been brainwashed, or you're one of those people who looks at the pactage. PETA are nothing more than a bunch of extremest vegan hippy scumbags who want nothing more than to put KFC, Burger King etc. out of business, and to make animals 'free' which means no pets, no animals at the zoos, safaries or shelters, and more deaths because without decent people with their cures and worm injections, they'd die. Case closed.

[Leto]

PETA are nothing more than a bunch of extremest vegan hippy scumbags who want nothing more than to put KFC, Burger King etc. out of business, and to make animals 'free' which means no pets, no animals at the zoos, safaries or shelters, and more deaths because without decent people with their cures and worm injections, they'd die.

You pretty much just listed everything I want to happen rite thurr.

[Munch's Master]

No loony-bin, it isn't case closed. I side with Used 100% here. PETA are for animal rights and animal wlfare. They don't neccessariyly want to ban pets if the pets are happy and wll treated. They don't want to bankrupt fast food companies (Although that's fine with me), they want to save animals. Many zoos keepo animals in tiny cages and poor conditions. Safari parks, while better, are still not the aimals' natural habitat. Its fine to keep near-extinct species in breeding shelters as long as they are good conditions, but in a lot of cases, who was it who nearly wiped out the animals? Humans. That's what PETA is about, righting the wrongs humans have done to animals. PETA may have euthanised animals, but in a lot of the cases where they've rescued animals, the animal's life isn't worth living. After all, would you rather live with no limbs or mangled limbs, damaged bones, malnutrition, mental trauma, no eyesight and goodnss knowswhat else some of those animals have suffered, or would you rather be quickly killed instead of suffering that existence. I'd pick the latter. And before you start with the generalizing, I am not a "hippy scumbag" nor am I "brainwashed". I make my own mind up in the world. Just because I and Used believe in animal welfare, doesn't mean we're zombified scumbag hippies.
That's another thing that pisses me off, generalizing. Although I think I mentioned that before.
Another thing that pisses me off is people who don't get their facts straight.
Another thing that pisses me off is false accuation in an arguement because the loser in the arugement can't get any better facts.

EDIT: Shouldn't this PETA discussion be in that 'Cruelty to Animals' thread or whatever it's called?

[used:)]

MM, I think that thread about animal cruelty has died.

Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. Even PETA members. That's why this 'evidence' is dodgy. Also, if you think PETA are good, you've seriously been brainwashed, or you're one of those people who looks at the pactage. PETA are nothing more than a bunch of extremest vegan hippy scumbags who want nothing more than to put KFC, Burger King etc. out of business, and to make animals 'free' which means no pets, no animals at the zoos, safaries or shelters, and more deaths because without decent people with their cures and worm injections, they'd die. Case closed.

No, the case is not closed. What makes you think that the movie you listed isn't pure propaganda as well? Two mega liberal celebrities should NOT be enough to justify your opinion for hating an orginization. As for Wikipedia, they always keep their articles in a good balanced form. Did you even read the article I linked? It contains information about their high use of euthanasia.

And as for me being a PETA loving hippie scumbag (and I shudder to think I am), perhaps you should actually try and learn about the person you're generilising before you attack them. Bitch.

We need Alector right now.

[used:)]

In light of recent discussion on PETA in a different thread, I decided to make this thread to contain all of the off topic ish discussion about PETA.

I like PETA well enough for what they have done in the past. I will edit this post for some things I found form wikipedia which I used in the other thread.

So what are your thoughts on them?

EDIT: Here are the things frm Wikipedia.

-1983: successfully stopped a United States Department of Defense "wound lab" which had planned to fire missiles into dogs and goats.

-1984: released more than 70 hours of videotape shot in the University of Pennsylvania head-injury laboratory, showing the treatment of primates there. The Secretary of Health and Human Services subsequently cut off all funding to the laboratory and the experiments were stopped. In the same year, a Texas slaughterhouse to which 30,000 horses were taken each year from all over the United States, then allegedly left to starve outside without shelter, was closed after a PETA campaign.

-1985: revealed details of the treatment of dogs at the City of Hope laboratory in California. The government fined the center $11,000 and suspended more than $1,000,000 in federal funding.

-1986: stopped the total-isolation confinement of chimpanzees at a Maryland research laboratory called SEMA. Dr. Jane Goodall called her tour of the SEMA lab “the worst experience of my life.”

-1987: stopped a plan by Cedars-Sinai, California’s largest hospital to ship stray dogs from Mexico into California for experiments. In the same year, they launched the Compassion Campaign to fight cosmetics and personal-care product testing on animals. By 1989, PETA had persuaded nearly 500 companies, including Mary Kay and Amway, to go cruelty-free.

-1988: secret video shot inside East Carolina University and distributed by PETA showed an inadequately anesthetized dog undergoing surgery during a classroom exercise. The university subsequently declared a moratorium on the use of live animals.

-1990: exposed the alleged beating of orangutans by Las Vegas entertainer Bobby Berosini, who used the primates in a nightclub act. His captive-bred wildlife permit was suspended by the U.S. Department of the Interior, and his show closed. Four years later, the Nevada Supreme Court unanimously ruled in PETA’s favor and overturned a Las Vegas jury’s $3.2 million defamation award to Berosini. In the same year, the Caring Consumer Campaign succeeded in persuading Estée Lauder and 40 other companies to halt animal testing.

-1991: the Silver Spring monkeys case receives a unanimous, positive ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court, the first time that a case involving animals in laboratories had been heard by the court.

-1992: PETA undercover investigators revealed the details of U.S. foie gras production, documenting the force-feeding of geese. Police subsequently conducted the first-ever raid in the United States, and possibly in the world, on a factory farm, and many restaurants removed foie gras from their menus. In the same year, PETA testified at the first-ever U.S. congressional hearing on the use of animals in circuses, rodeos, films, and other types of entertainment.

-1993: General Motors gave PETA a statement of assurance that it had ended the use of live pigs and baboons in crash tests after a PETA campaign. In the same year, L’Oréal, the world’s largest cosmetics company, signed a worldwide ban on animal testing, following a PETA campaign. PETA also revealed details of scabies experiments using dogs and rabbits at Wright State University. The university was subsequently charged with violating the Animal Welfare Act, and the experiments ended.

-1994: Buckshire Corporation, a laboratory animal breeding facility, was charged with violations of the Animal Welfare Act after a 38-page complaint was submitted by PETA. A furrier is charged with cruelty to animals following the release of PETA videotapes showing a California fur rancher electrocuting a chinchilla by clipping wires to the animal’s genitals (to its genitals). It was the first time in U.S. history that a furrier was charged with cruelty.

-1999: a North Carolina grand jury handed down the first-ever felony cruelty indictments against pig-farm workers after an undercover PETA investigator videotaped workers beating lame pigs with wrenches, and skinning and dismembering a conscious pig.

-2000: successfully campaigned for 11 months against McDonalds to implement more stringent welfare standards.

My reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PETA#An...and_euthanasia

[Havoc]

Confienently leaving out all the negative stuff they did, like setting fire to test labs, paying 10 k to various arsenists, trying to get bans on virtualy everything related to animals.

A recent story however, also stated that PETA Uthenises animals themselfs without any reason to do so. They pick em up at the vets office, then kill them and dump them in a truct. There is evidence of them doing it.

More on that story here: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petaTrial.cfm


More: Figures on how many animals PETA kills on a yearly basis...



If you want more info on what PETA actualy does in it's spare time, when they are not out promoting their so called good deeds and going on useless protesting, I suggest you take a look at http://www.petakillsanimals.com/.

But let me also put in a statement of myself in here. PETA is a very messed up orginisation, which once started out as a good one, but when it became popular, it turned into an almost terorist like orginisation. Something called 'God Complex' took over the president of operations there, and for some akward reason they are trying to save animals that don't realy need saving.
If you have something against animal testing, thats fine. But before you do anything, it might come in handy to know why drugs are tested on animals in the first place. Make up and stuff is a diffrent story all together, but also know that these people liberated and set fire to various testing facilities where life saving drugs were being tested on animals, and this research was delayed for months.
Also, they have nice talk and everything, but PETA doesn't know anything about the animals they are saving. I myself am very involved with people who run sanctuaries and the like. And when you live in America, you don't want to know how many presure PETA puts on sanctuaries because 'they are dangrous and should be closed down'.
I am a member of two exotic animal owner mailing lists, and no-one (I mean NO-ONE!) has a good word to say about PETA. Which is akward, because you'd expect these people (who love animals just as much as PETA claims to) to support PETA? They don't, for very obvious reasons.

[looney-bin]

Those bastard hippies need to die. The government should treat PETA like a terrorist group because they are basicly that.

[used:)]

Yes, PETA has done a lot of good excellent things for animal safety and such, and that is true they are little on the bad side. But I repect them for what they have done, not necessarily the bad. And yes, I have taken a look at the bad things they have done, it's in the Wikipedia article. If you want a more exclusive look on my opinions concerning them, go to the What Pisses You Off Thread.

[looney-bin]

Yes, PETA has done a lot of good excellent things for animal safety and such, and that is true they are little on the bad side.

Oh God. XD "Oh they only blow up buildings, slaughter animals from the Vet's, use fashism to get their way, and they're abunch of hypacrits, but other than that, they make a bunch of crappy shock films to let us see what's really going on. I love them for that." LMAO!

[OANST]

There isn't a single group out there that hasn't made mistakes. PETA's purpose is noble even if there are people that have abused their power. Your purpose, on the other hand is annoying. Shut your mouth unless you plan to back up your insults with facts.

[used:)]

Oh God. XD "Oh they only blow up buildings, slaughter animals from the Vet's, use fashism to get their way, and they're abunch of hypacrits, but other than that, they make a bunch of crappy shock films to let us see what's really going on. I love them for that." LMAO!

Again, you still are not even suggesting that maybe they have done one bit of good in their time. You're not going to convince anyone if you keep throwing petty insults at me with a stupid movie to back it up. And if you really don't care, then leave.

[Sekto Springs]

Looney Bin, I hope you get your nipples bitten off by a monkey with an electrode in it's brain.

[Havoc]

There isn't a single group out there that hasn't made mistakes. PETA's purpose is noble even if there are people that have abused their power.

Ofcourse, but there are mistakes and there are downright scandals. PETA has had a lot of the latter recently.
Like I said, it started out as a good orginisation which wanted to help abused animals. But somewhere along the line they lost sight of that objective and just wanted to help any animal, wether it was needed or not.

[Slig_Cake]

I can't really offer a sound argument on this as I don't really know much about the PETA and what they have done but I will say this. If you criticise an organisation who's mission is to look after those that can't help themselves, then sorry but i think you really have a lack of morals. I'm sure the PETA has members that are drugged up psychos that blow up labs killing many animals, but I really don't think that it's what the actual PETA stands for. They can't control the behaviours of all their members and I'm sure that the majority of PETA don't go planning terroist attacks like these, nor get excited about them. I really believe that they are just trying to make a strong peaceful protest against the mistreatment of animals.

I agree with you Havoc and what your saying, and I'm not pointing the finger at anyone on this forum. But I have a feeling there are members here that would think it's "****n awesome" to fire a missile at a goat.

[Havoc]

Well... it IS awsome to fire a missle at a goat... I mean... just saying that is freaking hilarious :P.

In all seriousness, if PETA wasn't supporting acts like that, they wouldn't wire huge amounts of money to the people who did, would they?
I would never criticize an orginisation that wants to help others (the term those who can't look after themselfs is a little akward, as most animals can look after themselfs better then us humans can), but PETA reached a point where they actualy kill more animals then they save. Look at the numbers. They kill 70 - 80 % of the animals they adopt and save on a yearly basis.

[Disgruntled Intern]

I'm permanently irked by PETA because they insisted on being on the set of A perfect storm to make sure the fish that were being gutted were either already dead or animatronic.

Even though they were satisfied they insisted on being there for the duration of the film.

To me that's the equivalent of an off duty cop running a stop sign. Horrible comparison, but I'm so indifferent to this topic that I can't really do much better.

[Wil]

In the same year [1993], L’Oréal, the world’s largest cosmetics company, signed a worldwide ban on animal testing, following a PETA campaign.

Haha, yeah. That worked.

[Slig_Cake]

I have to say (and this might sound a little biased) the best organisation is the RSPCA.

[Munch's Master]

Hmmm, interesting info from Havoc. I knew PETA were a bit, violent and extremist, but I didn' think it was to such a degree. If they're killing such a high portion of animals then whoever is in charge of PETA should take a look at what they're doing and set about righting it. But I still stand by my earleir comments, PETA have done good. OK maybe not as much good comapred to bad as I thuoght, but still, they have had success and fought for animal rights. Even if they've been hypocritical at times. Oh, I'm not sure what I think now. I know PETA have made mistakes, but they're campaigning for animal rights, even if possibly in the wrong way. It reminds me of the womens' rights campaigns, there were 2 groups: the NWUSS were peaceful and were mostly ignored, yet were more respected than the WSPU, who were violent and needlessly destructive. I think I'd class PETA in the middle.

And as for the 'animals used in life saving rug tests' thing, I still say: Test them on the criminals- the rapists, pedophiles and murderers. Screw any human rights thing for them. Once you break the laws of the land, you've violated others' rights. Therefore, you deserve no rights.

[Adder]

I've seen clips from that show before, and it is about as biased as Wikipedia would be.

Of course, I would side with PETA being good... until I hear about them not condoning violence.

What are Humans but Animals? Assaulting a Human must be seen to be the same degree of 'unethical' as assaulting an animal, and yet PETA does it.

From a medical standpoint, in today's world far less animals are being killed and used. I'll admit, I don't like the idea of animal testing but it is neccesary. Recently, 4 people were rushed to hospital over a serious reaction to a drug being testing in Britain. They were essential human guinee-pigs for this new drug. This drug had already been developed to the point that human testing was allowed. If there were no animals used before human testing began, huge numbers of people despirate for money would be left with a lower state of life, if not dead, during drug trials.
Heck, even something as simple as a tetnus booster is unsafe to make in humans. The antibodies are grown in horses since a human body would react very badly to them {that's why they're put in dense fatty tissue when you're injected}.

As for veganism... well, it's not for me. In fact, you wouldn't be able to get everyone to turn off meat and stay healthy just like that. It'd take some time for people to adjust. It would be a major malnutrition risk to suddenly stop producing/eating meat.

As for euthanasia...
I know there's at least one charity in the UK with the motto "We never put a health dog down". If PETA can pay money to support violence, they can probably keep more animals alive. Also, I would like to know what their opinion on neutering/spaying is {mainly because there's another charity with the slogan "It's nicer to neuter"}.

I will not support PETA until they rule out violence and act to stop it. That's what Gandi did. That's what M.L.K. did.

-----

Test them on the criminals- the rapists, pedophiles and murderers. Screw any human rights thing for them. Once you break the laws of the land, you've violated others

And what about the idea of Redemption? The idea that "a man can change"? Isn't every crime subject to a trial and re-trial?

Also, basic Human Rights would say "You can't torture me" and, IMO, testing potential lethal concotions on me would be torturous.

[Havoc]

Someone who raped and murdered a 9 year old girl can have SARS tested on his eyeball for all I care. People hide behind the law to much. And the law protects criminals like that way to much.
If you don't want to have stuff tested on you, then don't rape a goddamn kid. It's that simple realy. At least by testing they still make a good contribution to society.

[Slig_Cake]

Someone who raped and murdered a 9 year old girl can have SARS tested on his eyeball for all I care. People hide behind the law to much. And the law protects criminals like that way to much.
If you don't want to have stuff tested on you, then don't rape a goddamn kid. It's that simple realy. At least by testing they still make a good contribution to society.

I'm completely behind this but it raises the same issues as capital punishment. I mean how would you feel if you had all the evidence stacked against you for a murder you didn't commit, and spent the next 20 years of your life getting fluids injected into your scrotum. Then after they find the real murderer. How would they be able to compensate you?

[Sekto Springs]

If they put a couple mil in my pocket and gave me an ice cream cone, I probably wouldn't mind.

[Mutual Friend]

I'm permanently irked by PETA because they insisted on being on the set of A perfect storm to make sure the fish that were being gutted were either already dead or animatronic.

Even though they were satisfied they insisted on being there for the duration of the film.

Wow, after reading that my opinion of them has risen considerably. Any person who could stand around while 'The Perfect Storm' was actually being made deserves a lot of respect – it was bad enough watching that piece of trash.

[Nate]

That job is usually performed by the American Humane Association's Film and Television Unit - they're the ones who allow films to use the disclaimer "No animals were harmed in the making of this motioin picture". Rules include "precautions should be taken to minimize the number of bugs flying into the lights." when insects are being filmed! Read http://www.slate.com/id/2117565/ for more info.

Most of the other jobs that PETA credits itself for are much better performed by the SPCA and it's equivalents outside the US. They regulate animal cruelty and prosecute law-breakers.

This then leaves PETA as a half-arsed lobby group who's only milieux is self-aggrandising publicity stunts of questionable morality.

[Munch's Master]

And what about the idea of Redemption? The idea that "a man can change"? Isn't every crime subject to a trial and re-trial?

Also, basic Human Rights would say "You can't torture me" and, IMO, testing potential lethal concotions on me would be torturous.

I understand what you're saying and I do take your point, but can a rapist or a murderer really be believed to change? Sure in some cases they can, but in others, they don't. And releasing someone like that or treating them nicely in the hope/belief they'll change and become contributive citizens is for the most part false hope. And the point of my arguement was that once you commit such a crime, you lose human rights. Rapists, pedophiles and murderers should have no human rights-they've violated others' rights.

Someone who raped and murdered a 9 year old girl can have SARS tested on his eyeball for all I care. People hide behind the law to much. And the law protects criminals like that way to much.
If you don't want to have stuff tested on you, then don't rape a goddamn kid. It's that simple realy. At least by testing they still make a good contribution to society.

That's pretty much what I meant by the testing thing, and my opinions on crime. and Slig_Cake, I see your point and I agree- the innocent man is sometimes found guilty, or in other cases the guilty man was in the right (The Peter Martin case for example). That's the danger with any extreme punishment on criminals, so such punishments should only occur on those they can 100% truthfully prove committed the crime, but that is hard to do usually. Its a difficult issue. (Boy, have I drifted off topic here)

[AprilD]

I love saving cute little critters. They are gods little wonders.

[Disgruntled Intern]

The ugly ones should all die though.