New 'n tasty tile based movement

Paul · #1 03-10-2015, 02:49 PM

I've thought about this for a while..

And I think the controls of New 'n tasty would be a lot better if they followed the old tile/grid based system of the first game. This way it was easier to judge ledges and things, or you could know for sure you'd jump over those 2 mines.

Now it seems that if you jump over a couple of mines its possible that you'll hit the next 2 depending on how many pixels/distance in you where. It would also remove the need for the "falling off edge" animation.

If there is an exoddus remake I really hope this movement system is implemented or maybe added as a "classic" movement option - although its probably a massive change to how the engine works.

Benjamoose · #2 03-10-2015, 03:07 PM

I completely agree!

I mentioned this in my review:
http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=21902

It seems like it was changed to free movement for the sake of feeling "next-gen" compared to the original, but I really think the tile movement makes predicting when to jump, when to roll under things and where you can and can't stand make much more sense to the player.

I've played plenty of modern games with similar movement, so I don't think it'd be weird or dated to include it in New 'n' Tasty.

Job McYossie · #3 03-10-2015, 03:21 PM

The lack of grid was probably my biggest issue with new 'n' tasty, but I don't know if I think it's bad. I think that the grid was what made AO and AE so cinematic as where the free form of N'n'T felt more actiony. Is it worse? I don't know. I just know I prefer the cinematic slow grid based playstyle over the action running.

Benjamoose · #4 03-10-2015, 07:12 PM

I'm not sure if I'd agree with that. I don't think it really feels any different really, it's just that the lack of grid makes specific stuff like rolling under meat grinders or getting too close to things a little finicky or unreliable.

I think it's less of the impact it has on the "feel" and more the impact on the actual specifics of gameplay.

Abe's Oddysee only really feels slower due to animation speeds. They could easily put in a grid system without it feeling any different beyond where your character stops and starts moving from, heh.

Shade667 · #5 03-10-2015, 08:28 PM

Ill always have a different PoV on this because Ive played far more of nnT than I have the original, and I like it a hell of a lot more. I quit the original cuz of its movement system. Never finished it.

Its hard to describe its movement system. Well, for one, its nowhere near as clunky. I dunno, but I hate the originals movement and love NnT's movement.

Benjamoose · #6 03-10-2015, 09:17 PM

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Ill always have a different PoV on this because Ive played far more of nnT than I have the original, and I like it a hell of a lot more. I quit the original cuz of its movement system. Never finished it.

Its hard to describe its movement system. Well, for one, its nowhere near as clunky. I dunno, but I hate the originals movement and love NnT's movement.

Indeed, but that clunky feeling as I mentioned before comes from the speed in which the animations are played back at. It's possible to have a grid system that feels very similar to New 'n' Tasty.

It doesn't directly affect the feel so much as it has an awkward effect on things like mine proximity or stopping on a dime at a correct distance from something.

Job McYossie · #7 03-10-2015, 09:32 PM

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I quit the original cuz of its movement system.

This is what I mean, N'n'T feels like a different genera of game.

FrustratedAssassin · #8 03-10-2015, 11:24 PM

Hey, JAW, I hope you're reading this thread. This thing right here would fix most of the game's problems. It would be amazing if there was some way to do this for the Exoddus reboot/new game after that.

Varrok · #9 03-10-2015, 11:39 PM

Grid's the best, beats the rest

Shade667 · #10 03-11-2015, 12:35 AM

Maybe im just too good at the game that these 'problems' u guys keep talking about I dont even notice or dont affect me.

Job McYossie · #11 03-11-2015, 01:57 AM

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Maybe im just too good at the game that these 'problems' u guys keep talking about I dont even notice or dont affect me.

I think this is the most accidentally pretentious thing I have ever read.

Slog Bait · #12 03-11-2015, 02:23 AM

Well MAYBE you just need to be better at the game to understand shade's great wisdom, McJobbie. There is no pretention here, only pure, unadulterated truths.

Shade667 · #13 03-11-2015, 03:24 AM

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I think this is the most accidentally pretentious thing I have ever read.

I tried not to sound smug. But It probably came out that way anyway. Play anything for an average of 20 hours a week for a year straight and youll probably be good at it.

Its the only solution ive come up with for not having these problems, other than that you guys might have a bit of a rosy tint upon your glasses.

Job McYossie · #14 03-11-2015, 03:33 AM

:

Its the only solution ive come up with for not having these problems, other than that you guys might have a bit of a rosy tint upon your glasses.

I think this is the most purposefully pretentious thing I have ever read.

Shade667 · #15 03-11-2015, 03:52 AM

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I think this is the most purposefully pretentious thing I have ever read.

How so? I dont think im being pretentious at all. Im not trying to impress people with my mad skillz in oddworld. Whod be impressed by that?

(At least, Google tells me thats what pretentious means)

Slog Bait · #16 03-11-2015, 05:35 AM

The implication is there and that's all that's needed to come off as a pretentious ass, dudebro

You obviously take pride in your abilities, which is fine, but PEOPLE DON'T TEND TO APPRECIATE gloating and being told they're inferior in one go

Holy Sock · #17 03-11-2015, 06:59 AM

It's really just because they're adapting the grid system of the original to a non-grid system. Non-grid platformers are great - but it comes with it's own rules for maneuvering throughout puzzles.

I think a brand new Oddworld platformer would be excellent if they designed it from the ground up and did away with some of the old structures - like mine hopping.

Or perhaps, for the Exoddus remake, certain things (like rolling between meat grinders) just need more refinement.

This video game business be a learning process and it's not surprising that the conversion to modern platforming wasn't perfect.

FrustratedAssassin · #18 03-11-2015, 08:59 AM

I'm guessing in the Exoddus reboot, the grinders won't be as hard, since their speed is constant. The ones in Rupture Farms were shit in NnT because they had different speeds when coming down and going up, plus they paused at the bottom.

But I'm absolutely dreading the grinder hell in Phleg's office, not to mention in the Brewery.

***Xavier*** · #19 03-11-2015, 10:02 AM

Honestly I didn't had any issue with them removing the grid system. Everything felt more fluid and natural. I never felt I had any issue with the extra freedom in movements.

Then again I almost finished Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends at 100% so I'm kind of used to "precision" jumping and running.

Shade667 · #20 03-11-2015, 12:15 PM

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Honestly I didn't had any issue with them removing the grid system. Everything felt more fluid and natural. I never felt I had any issue with the extra freedom in movements.

Then again I almost finished Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends at 100% so I'm kind of used to "precision" jumping and running.

Hmmm. Im in a similar boat. However, I wouldnt compare rayman legends to oddworld via game controls. I speedrun both games. But I never really even played a 2D platformer til probably like 5-6 years ago. Maybe playes a couple as a kid but I was firmly in the 3D plane.
So maybe I just cant relate to the rest of yall cuz I have no experience going from 90's 2d platformers to 2d platformers of today.

Benjamoose · #21 03-11-2015, 03:15 PM

I noticed this thread (and my review) was moved to the Spoiler Forum. I've nothing against that for my thread (seeing as I mentioned that I was unsure myself, though there aren't really any in my video), but surely a discussion about something not even in New 'n' Tasty (the grid movement) doesn't contain any spoilers?

Just curious as to why Paul's thread was moved seemingly arbitrarily?

Surely if anything touching upon New 'n' Tasty is to be moved here, would it not make more sense to name the forum "New 'n' Tasty Discussion" or something, and then just mention "spoiler" types of threads in the section's description?

:

Maybe im just too good at the game that these 'problems' u guys keep talking about I dont even notice or dont affect me.

This is just my point of view when reading your posts, but I believe they may come across as pretentious because of the way you approach your sentences? Prefixing a point with the fact that you're "too good" at the game to notice is a start. But also the fact that people mention they see issues and you then saying you don't see them because you're "so good" implies that they don't see them because we're of a lower skill level. It might be worth approaching your points with a sense of modesty?

Some of the issues are indeed objectively there either way whether they concern you or not to be fair. An example in my video review shows that the lack of grid can cause issues with being too close to objects to avoid them. It's possible to accidentally be too close to a button mine to the point where you can't disable it without exploding it (even if you time it right) or turn around to move away without blowing it up. The same applies for the grinders. Rolling from too close will almost always result in a failure. These are issues that have hampered the game as the original puzzle and gameplay design was intended to be used with a grid.

They're not game breaking and can ultimately be avoided (though can be frustrating). But the point is these issues are objectively an issue stemming from game design and not the players "skill level", and aught to be tweaked to accommodate the new free-movement in future sequels.

You could be the best player in the world and still encounter the issues I mentioned above for example.

Those are just my thoughts anyway, heh.

Shade667 · #22 03-11-2015, 08:25 PM

I understand. Its so weird for me to explain though. I dont know how else to say it. I have an understanding of this game that few others do, the play time difference is literally hundreds of hours. I cant even remember how i felt about the movement system when I first played it. But it couldnt have been a bad experience or I wouldnt still be playing it.

I havnt had a problem with positioning in a long time, but again. Might be because all the right movement is burned into my brain.

Is this making any sense?

Job McYossie · #23 03-12-2015, 12:24 AM

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I understand. Its so weird for me to explain though. I dont know how else to say it.

Instead of "I'm so much better than the rest of you that..." you could say "I've played the game for so long that..."

Benjamoose · #24 03-12-2015, 12:31 AM

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I havnt had a problem with positioning in a long time, but again. Might be because all the right movement is burned into my brain.

Is this making any sense?

I've also been playing Abe's Oddysee for 17 years (as have many others) so I'd say I understand to the same extent.

The occurrences are less about doing something right and more about happenstance and random chance. I encountered getting "too close" to a button mine only once, but it was enough to be a problem and means there certainly are drawbacks to the new system.

If you happened to breeze though New 'n' Tasty without encountering these issues, then fair enough.

Shade667 · #25 03-12-2015, 01:53 AM

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Instead of "I'm so much better than the rest of you that..." you could say "I've played the game for so long that..."

I didnt say that though...

I said "Im too good" not "you all suck".

**JayDee** · #26 03-12-2015, 03:21 AM

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I tried not to sound smug. But It probably came out that way anyway. Play anything for an average of 20 hours a week for a year straight and youll probably be good at it.

The only thing I'd be good at if I played NnT 20 hours a week for a year is picking out the correct cream for my Haemorrhoids.

Shade667 · #27 03-12-2015, 08:56 PM

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The only thing I'd be good at if I played NnT 20 hours a week for a year is picking out the correct cream for my Haemorrhoids.

20 hours a week is 3 hours a day... Thats not that long. I of course play for some days 8 hours+, but there are also some days I dont play NnT, so I made a estimated average that is probably correct.

Job McYossie · #28 03-13-2015, 05:52 AM

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20 hours a week is 3 hours a day... Thats not that long.

Well make up your mind is it long or not long.

Shade667 · #29 03-13-2015, 08:00 AM

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Well make up your mind is it long or not long.

If youre practicing something for a year is 3 hours a day long? I think so, but as I said its "not that long" compared to what J_dude seemed to be implying.

Nepsotic · #30 03-15-2015, 08:08 PM

Oh my god can you make your own forum or something, Jesus Christ.