Uguayis Dei?

[FennecFyre]

While browsing TVTropes today, I revisited their Oddworld page and noticed a mention of something called the Uguayis Dei, which is supposedly the name of Oddworld's government and/or the bigger fish that the Magog Cartel answers to (for reference, it's under the Greater Scope Villain entry). I've always been curious as whether or not Oddworld actually has any kind of government (albeit most likely a very corrupt one) or if it's just pure anarcho-capitalist chaos, so this was interesting to me. Maybe it's this group who ultimately answers to the Investors and allows them to indirectly control and profit from the rest of Oddworld. Anyone know anything about it? (Or even better, would one of our good and wonderful and amazing resident Inhabitants be willing to shed some light on the subject?)

[UnderTheSun]

The Uggae Estate is pretty mysterious. Alf's mentioned it a few times:

What is the connection between the Magog Cartel and Uggae Estate?
Alf: Hierarchical!

Hi Alf! Can you tell me all about this ‘Uwaya’ state that was mentioned on an Unreleased Slig News clip?
Alf: Oh man, you won’t catch me saying anything about the Uggae Estate. Not with the lawyers those freaks have got. I hear it’s ruled by a horrible monster that can literally scare you to death with its gaze. Nope. I’m not going there.

Based on these unreleased "Magog On the March" clips, it seems that the Uggae Estate is Lady Margaret's royal court or something, and would have played a major role in the abandoned "Molluck's trial" plotline in Munch's Oddysee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FNCbFFJ-c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmfD5zdqzww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPMwa043_08

(I don't remember the second one mentioning it, but might as well include it, amirite?)

EDIT: Nope, it's definitely mentioned.

[Manco]

There’s an old thread about it that says it’s mentioned on the Movies of Oddworld DVD: http://www.oddworldforums.net/showth...409#post247409

e: wow I just noticed I posted in that thread

[JayDee]

Considering the relationship between the Magog Cartel and the Uggae Estate is "hierarchical" I'm gonna assume that these guys are the bigger bad that Lorne mentions in his interview with Nate.

[FennecFyre]

Okay, yeah, that's probably what it is then. I had no idea why it's written as Uguayis Dei on the site, but watching the clips, I could see how it would be misheard.

So we know that it's where Lady Margaret is presiding, but now I'm curious whether it's more a single location (like the White House) or if that's the name for the whole government/business.

Edit: Most likely a single location, since the third news clip mentions a report from Uggae in Nolybab. So I guess the question still remains if Oddworld has a proper government or not--my money's on no.

[Gunnr]

Iggae sounds like a city, like DC is to Washington and the location of the white house as you mentioned, fennec. A place that's high security place and home of the "bigger bads" that jaydee mentioned from Nates interview.

I think think in a similar way the U.S. is run from the white house in DC, Uggae to me would be like Nollbabs capital and very likely the source of what ever government Oddworld is under. I do think that Oddworld may have a gov but like real governments it deffinatly isn't perfect.
That's my building theory

On a separate note Between this and the Song Engine thread has me starting to really wish for a Munchs oddysee remake/exoddus.

[kjjcarpenter]

A lesson has been learned today: Take everything from TV Tropes with a grain of salt.

[Lord Vhazen]

Although Lord Lorne loves to deploy social commentary and all, I doubt all of Oddworld is complete and absolute free game for private businesses - though it is an example of when capitalism and industrialism has more power than it should, which leads to chaos. I think the unreleased Magog on the March videos detailing Mullock's supposed survival and impending trial kind of mean there's some kind of council or government around by default.

It probably exists to keep business in line, but in the worst way possible - working in the shadows to squash undesired competition, hold back scientific research to keep traditional methods in power, extortion, all while maintaining a family-friendly face to report back to those underground mole people - the good stuff that Lord Lorne would be inclined to explore.

I don't think there's any kind of environmentalist groups or regulations in this centralized government, or if there is, it is very weak and exploitable. We don't see any evidence of trade unionists or anything really that'd get in the way of a business's endeavors in terms of ethics and this seems to be the kind of world where bribery is either legal, or so commonly done behind the scenes that no one cares.

One way or another though, I think there probably is some kind of centralized government in Oddworld simply because that seems like the kind of thing Lord Lorne would do - he would probably want to use the government itself as some kind of abstract "character" of sorts - an invisible, evil force that's secretly controlling everything on the surface.

[JayDee]

It probably exists to keep business in line, I don't think there's any kind of environmentalist groups or regulations in this centralized government, or if there is, it is very weak and exploitable. We don't see any evidence of trade unionists or anything really that'd get in the way of a business's endeavors in terms of ethics and this seems to be the kind of world where bribery is either legal, or so commonly done behind the scenes that no one cares.

It's interesting you brought up trade unions, because they did actually exist within a piece of concept art for the Oddworld Movie, though from the presence of the Gloktigi I doubt they did much besides exploit the workers.

[Lord Vhazen]

It's interesting you brought up trade unions, because they did actually exist within a piece of concept art for the Oddworld Movie, though from the presence of the Gloktigi I doubt they did much besides exploit the workers.

Oh I love these... There's so much mystery behind their depictions!

When I first saw this, I couldn't help but imagine it was supposed to be for a scene where Mudokons are being lured in and recruited into "jobs for the good of the city" which would then result in their enslavement where they'd all be deported to the slums and the factories. Slavery, by manipulation.

MO made it canon (although I don't know if it still counts now) that Mudokons are brainwashed into being "laborers for a good cause" by the industrialists who basically farm their eggs by the masses. This scene looks like it's some kind of initiation process or transition that starts after a newbie Mud had come to the right age and completed his training. It must be like fulfilling their destiny, to them.

This is probably how Abe himself ended up in Rupture Farms. That looks like him in the far-right because he's the only one with the detail added for his headband, for some reason. You gotta remember, he thought he had a good job, according to the intro to the first game. So somehow, he got tricked into thinking he had free will - or at least that what he was being made to do was for the best.

[kjjcarpenter]

This is probably how Abe himself ended up in Rupture Farms. That looks like him in the far-right because he's the only one with the detail added for his headband, for some reason. You gotta remember, he thought he had a good job, according to the intro to the first game. So somehow, he got tricked into thinking he had free will - or at least that what he was being made to do was for the best.

The original concept was for Abe to be a fisherman living a self-sustaining life with Elum[p46 of The Art of Oddwold Inhabitants] before being introduced to a factory life.

The Abe we know and love purportedly grew up in RuptureFarms from birth, or shortly thereafter, depending on whether his lips were sewn shut by Sam or not.

In January 2005, Lorne appeared on G4tv.com, where he explained to the audience that Abe’s mother (Sam) sewed Abe’s lips together to keep him alive, and stated that there was a bigger reason, too. This explanation had also been proposed earlier; however, Abe’s stats page on Oddworld.com clearly states that he was hatched from an egg within the nursery of RuptureFarms, while Sam is held captive by the Vykkers.

Unfortunately, Abe's stats page is now a dead link.

[Nate]

Edit: Most likely a single location, since the third news clip mentions a report from Uggae in Nolybab. So I guess the question still remains if Oddworld has a proper government or not--my money's on no.

Sigh. Rewatching that clip reminded me why I thought it was 'Ugguaya State' for ages.

That said, I suspect the Uggae Estate is a business, rather than a location. Law from the commercial entities, to support the commercial entities, and to convict anyone who risks harming profits. Also, we have been told that Nolybab is a city, so the only way that the Uggae Estate is a city in its own right is if it's equivalent to the Forbidden City hidden inside Beijing.

Unfortunately, Abe's stats page is now a dead link.

Not if you know where to look.

[STM]

Oh I love these... There's so much mystery behind their depictions!

When I first saw this, I couldn't help but imagine it was supposed to be for a scene where Mudokons are being lured in and recruited into "jobs for the good of the city" which would then result in their enslavement where they'd all be deported to the slums and the factories. Slavery, by manipulation.

MO made it canon (although I don't know if it still counts now) that Mudokons are brainwashed into being "laborers for a good cause" by the industrialists who basically farm their eggs by the masses. This scene looks like it's some kind of initiation process or transition that starts after a newbie Mud had come to the right age and completed his training. It must be like fulfilling their destiny, to them.

This is probably how Abe himself ended up in Rupture Farms. That looks like him in the far-right because he's the only one with the detail added for his headband, for some reason. You gotta remember, he thought he had a good job, according to the intro to the first game. So somehow, he got tricked into thinking he had free will - or at least that what he was being made to do was for the best.

I sort of assumed the labour unions in Oddworld--if canon--are more of a pressure release valve for industrial workers in the cities of Mudos, who are no doubt more exposed to media, less physically surpressed and are more able to organise. There's a gloktigi stood atop the building, almost as if he's overseeing what's happening, so I wonder if the labour unions are facilitated and controlled by the Magog Cartel to make employees feel like they're influencing change, and to stop them from striking.

I am guessing the slaves in the industrial facilities we've seen thus far aren't extended the franchise of union enrolment.

[kjjcarpenter]

Not if you know where to look.

Nate, you sneaky devil. What a blast from the past!

There's a gloktigi stood atop the building, almost as if he's overseeing what's happening.

Do we know what that other creature is in the centre? It looks taller than a gloktigi. You know, as if the gloktigi weren't terrifying by themselves.

[JayDee]

I am guessing the slaves in the industrial facilities we've seen thus far aren't extended the franchise of union enrolment.

Well since we know that Mudokons also make up part of the Khanzumer class I think it's safe to guess that not all Mudokons live a completely subjugated existence. Those in the city just have the luxury of being ignorant to what goes on in the factories that ship their products to the big cities.

What they don't know won't hurt them.

[Vlam]

By the way, Lanning mentioned "Gnarlybebb":

A sinister tale of globalisation told by one of its sorriest slaves, Abe’s Oddysee didn’t just start at the bottom, but on the outside. “If you thought of it like our world,” says Lanning, “there’d be some areas that were as primitive as possible, others as high-tech as Tokyo, New York or London. So we’d have the full gauntlet. What I wanted to do with the Oddworld Quintology [an ambition that, on and off, he still pursues] was start in the third world. Then you find yourself dead smack in the centre of trade and commerce, Gnarlybebb. That would be our Manhattan.”

https://web.archive.org/web/20080920...rld?page=0%2C0

[oblivionkeeper23]

ALF: Great Chroniclers are lawyars and accountants, able to spot any loophole that will benefit their paymaster.

How can there be lawyers without laws? How can there be laws without a government? Surely, Mudos has to have a government of some sort.
I wanna say Oligarchy, since the higher up capitalists seem to be in charge. I hesitate to call it a Monarchy that Lady Margaret rules, because where would that put the equally (if not more) powerful oktigi?

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong or anything.

[Varrok]

lawyars

I bet Alf has never been to school.

[oblivionkeeper23]

I bet Alf has never been to school.

I'm surprised Mudokons can read. Who would teach their slave that?
Though, maybe Sam would've taught her children the basics, talking, reading, counting, etc.

[STM]

How can there be lawyers without laws? How can there be laws without a government? Surely, Mudos has to have a government of some sort.
I wanna say Oligarchy, since the higher up capitalists seem to be in charge. I hesitate to call it a Monarchy that Lady Margaret rules, because where would that put the equally (if not more) powerful oktigi?

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong or anything.

There can be law without a state, and there can be a state without a government.

[Varrok]

I'm surprised Mudokons can read. Who would teach their slave that?
Though, maybe Sam would've taught her children the basics, talking, reading, counting, etc.

I don't think it was Sam.

I think they owe their education to Rupture Farms and others

[FennecFyre]

I don't think it was Sam.

I think they owe their education to Rupture Farms and others

My theory is that they teach their "workers" to to write so they can sign contracts, but not actually how to read.

[Vlam]

Where is it stated that Mudokons can't read?

[Varrok]

Vlam missed the joke.

[Nate]

By the way, Lanning mentioned "Gnarlybebb":


https://web.archive.org/web/20080920...rld?page=0%2C0

Probably transcribed by someone listening to a recording of the interview and without contacting Lorne to confirm the spelling of 'Nolybab'.

[STM]

Vlam missed the joke.

No matter how much Vlam searches through the forum archives, he'll never be able to find an answer to the most important question of all: "what is humour?"

[kjjcarpenter]

Relevant:

We hate those news sheets, they make us read every new issue. Those that can still read...

— ed (@edmudokon) February 27, 2017

[Vlam]

Relevant:

We hate those news sheets, they make us read every new issue. Those that can still read...

— ed (@edmudokon) February 27, 2017

The ARG isn't that bad after all.

Probably transcribed by someone listening to a recording of the interview and without contacting Lorne to confirm the spelling of 'Nolybab'.

Maybe you're right. Nonetheless, Nolybab is, according to Wil, going to be the twisted version of Hollywood (not Manhattan):

Nolybab is clearly going to be a twisted version of Hollywood: it'll be where all the Glukkon celebrities hang out, so that'll be the Glockstars. Molluck wasn't a Glockstar, but he was head of the Big Cheese class, so there might've been a place for him and the other up-and-coming successes.

http://www.oddworldforums.net/showpo...9&postcount=18

[Xavier]

Vlam, you realize Wil was not working for OWI around that time and that most of what he was saying was educated guesswork?

And indeed the ARG is actually setting the scene for Oddworld: Soulstorm. It's not only about the puzzles.

[Vlam]

Vlam, you realize Wil was not working for OWI around that time and that most of what he was saying was educated guesswork?

Bear in mind that Wil has always been an authority when it comes to Oddworld. Furthermore, "Gnarlybebb" could be something different than "Nolybab" (that was my point). Finally, nothing has been clearly established after all these years.