Sexism

[DarkHoodness]

This is more of a reality check for me - I feel the need to ask a bunch of random strangers their opinion about something as an attempt to help me understand it better. I know that many of you are going to troll this topic all the way to troll hell, but feel free. This could get a little long, kudos to you if you make it to the bottom.

What are people's views on sexism?

My views are this: I'm up for equality, I'm against the rape culture and discrimination based on gender, I'm against maliciously-intended sexism, but I do understand that there is a gap between the genders - And I think most (but not all) of the "low level sexism" and accompanying banter isn't harmful and is simply a way that people address the gender divide to help them understand and blunt the edge of a sharp subject. I can understand that the lines are blurred between malicious and harmless sexism.

After all, gender and identity is something that affects every human that's ever lived, and has always been with us. I think the the basic human urge to reproduce, combined with sexual attraction, and how different people feel and interpret (or even misinterpret) such, is partly responsible for the gender divide.

On the other hand, I'm up for fighting what you believe in, but I don't agree with being so far into a topic (it doesn't matter what topic) that you lose sight of reality and start wanting things that are impossible, or start misinterpreting things. For example I was shown the following link from a blog that promotes equality in gaming culture:

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4248

The person who wrote the article basically interprets that the bad character who is scantily clad, is using her body (and possibly the promise of sex) to allure the male protagonist into doing her bidding, while the good character who is fully-clothed in a suit doesn't do this - And comes to the conclusion that Infamous 2 is sexist because it gives a subtle message to players that scantily-clad women are evil while fully-dressed women are good, therefore saying that women don't have a right to show their bodies.

What are people's opinions on this?

In my opinion, this is a misinterpretation and that the author has clearly thought too hard about this, identifying something that shouldn't be an issue. Yes - It's pretty evil to use your charms against someone to manipulate them, but surely this is simply shallow character design? In what way does this promote sexism in gaming culture? Am I missing a point? Also, if this is truly sexist, since this sort of thing is so common and overlooked in media, is it really that important when there are other, more dangerous types of sexism that should be tackled first (such as discrimination and the rape culture)?

The reason why I have this issue is that a friend and I have had this ongoing debate about sexism. She is very pro-feminist, and in my opinion, has a very narrow view on sexism. She seems to see ALL sexism, even the smaller stuff as being absolutely, terribly bad, and (worryingly for me) she feels persecuted and increasingly unwelcome almost everywhere simply for being female. She now even refuses to talk to me because the above opinions offended her that much. This is why I need a reality check: Are my opinions above really that sexist and unreasonable?

[Disgruntled Intern]

Cunts should stay in the kitchen when they're not having babies.

[DarkHoodness]

Cunts should stay in the kitchen when they're not having babies.

Case and point about trolling. :P

This leads me to another point - The internet is full of stuff like this. Yes, it could be seen as being offensive, but you obviously don't mean it and to a point it's harmless banter. But people who are stuck so far into feminism won't realise this then would react hysterically, get their knickers in a twist and accuse you of all kinds of stuff, then feel persecuted and offended and will never come here again because they don't feel welcome. I've witnessed this happen.

I feel people need to chill out and not take stuff so seriously, especially on the internet where people hide behind anonymity.

[Disgruntled Intern]

Case and point about trolling. :P

This leads me to another point - The internet is full of stuff like this. Yes, it could be seen as being offensive, but you obviously don't mean it and to a point it's harmless banter. But people who are stuck so far into feminism won't realise this then would react hysterically, get their knickers in a twist and accuse you of all kinds of stuff, then feel persecuted and offended and will never come here again because they don't feel welcome. I've witnessed this happen.

I feel people need to chill out and not take stuff so seriously, especially on the internet where people hide behind anonymity.

Your point would be valid if we had more than two[?] active female members.

Seriously though, sexism is silly.

That's why every time my wife tells me I have to get one of the gargantuan fucking house spiders out of our cottage "because I'm the man", I oblige long enough to pick it up and throw it at her. That'll learn her tiny little girl-brain.

[Daxter King]

What if women thought they were people?

[Disgruntled Intern]

Next thing you know my dog will be yelling at me to stay in the back seat while he takes me on bye-byes.

[DarkHoodness]

Your point would be valid if we had more than two[?] active female members.

I'm not saying it's wrong to do that (well okay, I believe it is, but that's beside the point), I'm commenting that it's something I've seen happen. People with chips on their shoulders who can't take a joke, etc.

[Disgruntled Intern]

No, I knew what you meant. But for fucks sake, it's the internet.

[moxco]

I'm all for equality but those who bitch on about males as if they were all the root of evil (only some are) and abuse models for making choices about their own appearance really annoy me.

[Sekto Springs]

Sexism is a laughable issue at best for me.
I feel like anyone who has to make an effort to take pride in their gender is just insecure. Seems like nobody can take shit on the chin anymore.

[Disgruntled Intern]

I knew a few women in my day who were great at taking shit on the chin. And by shit, I mean my balls.

[T-nex]

I think we do need gender-based discrimination. Not in a bad sense. But one would be stupid to say that males and women function the same way, and one would also be stupid if they said that biology might have had other plans for us than we wanted.

But I also think we should let both genders be and do what they want as lost as it's not harming anyone unconsensually

I really do hate extreme feminism. In many cases it really doesn't seem to serve for the better of the female. Just another set of extremists trying to strip me away from my freedom to either choose to act like a traditional woman or not(Yea some of them really do directly blame 'enablers').

[Dynamithix]

I'm tired of those 'Get back in the kitchen!' or 'Make me sammich!' jokes.

It's just so stupid.

[Phylum]

I think we do need gender-based discrimination. Not in a bad sense. But one would be stupid to say that males and women function the same way, and one would also be stupid if they said that biology might have had other plans for us than we wanted.

But I also think we should let both genders be and do what they want as lost as it's not harming anyone unconsensually

I really do hate extreme feminism. In many cases it really doesn't seem to serve for the better of the female. Just another set of extremists trying to strip me away from my freedom to either choose to act like a traditional woman or not(Yea some of them really do directly blame 'enablers').

Exactly my opinion on the matter.

[Mr.Spandexpants]

And Disgruntled Intern has shown you that serious matters never get by without trolls. They come in even more when you say "NOE TROLZ PLZ".

On topic: Sexisim can be kinda shitty if overdone. But otherwise it is really just playful teasing. I am also WAY to nerdy to be sexist. If I was, the girls in my class would beat me up.

[Phylum]

I have a female friend that will happily clip me over the ear when I cross the line.

[Crashpunk]

I Hate Sexists, Real sexists. Its fun to joke about the stereotypes of the genders if people can take a joke.

But when people mean it. There just a bunch of idiots that need to grow up.

[T-nex]

Yea... the only concern of mine when people make sexist jokes, is that they aren't joking at all.

If someone seriously thinks I should make babies, Ill friggin cut off their nuts!!! D:<

[moxco]

That will be guaranteed to stop the babies.

[STM]

You...you guys don't want to here me opinion of sexism, but err, It's not always bad.

[Mac Sirloin]

My dad is sexist. He's legit one of those people who will extoll the virtues of manitude. I think that's dumb.

Bitches best learn their place, though.

[Bullet Magnet]

If it's not bad, it's not sexism. Sexism is discrimination and bigotry based on sex. Depending on the severity, I should say it's quantitatively worse than racism given that it is discrimination against fully half of the human race.

There is really no justification for it. Those few discrete differences, ie those involved with reproduction, are the only justified and/or reasonable basis for treating men and women differently. And we aren't so far away from those differences being overcome any way.

Other things, such as strength, aggressiveness etc, features we generally associate with one sex or another, are not justified at all. Many of them are certainly associated more with one sex than another, but this is only general. We all sit in different positions on thousands of bell curves, continuous features that have a normal distribution throughout a population. In the case of physical strength, for example, the peak for men exists further up the strength axis than the peak for women, but there is still, and will always be, significant overlap. No employer judging physical ability, such as the armed forces, will admit all men just because their distribution is toward greater strength than women, there is a process to wash out the unsuitable. But to reject all women because many or most don't meet that standard is blatant discrimination: the rejection of so many able-bodies for no good reason. Sure, less women will meet the required standard than men, but that is just the way it will go. If men are tested for suitability, there's no reason women should not be either, and vice versa.

[OddjobAbe]

I find genuine sexism to be irritating in the same way I find something like racism or anti-semitism irritating - it is a massive indication of ignorance which may also imply stupidity. So, fundamentally, it's not sexism itself that I find irritating, but the ignorance that it is derivative of.

[Dixanadu]

Being a feminist isn't being sexist, it's just a failed equivalent attempt.

That was a joke.

Anyway, I'm not really sexist. I believe women deserve the same rights, though I joke about sexism on occasion, it's always nice if it's friendly banter. I'd never use it in a serious argument with a lady, though.

[STM]

Hmm, I think a person is largely phased by his surroundings and how he makes his own decisions. Perhaps that is why I am so open in life but also why I am sexist to a degree. Some of my family members border on misogynous on occasion although generally this is conveyed in the format of joking so its hard to tell whether they are serious. I see nothing wrong with women and I tried them equally as I would a man except maybe, that I am more shy around them but in private I will honestly say I will make kitchen jokes and the sort as other people do.

I think that sexism has been around for thousands of years and stems back to males being naturally protective of females...it carries on into politics and religion today. One only has to read the Qu'ran (specifically the fourth sura) or some Biblical passage, even the Buddhist teachings seem to exemplify the male role while perhaps weakening the female one. But sometimes this is due to women being regarded as tempting and desiring. Despite this, most Biblical passages refer to women as equal to men as is possible and that it does not effect salvation which I suppose one might look at as the 'divine equaliser'. To apply this then to a non-religious context, women are regarded in politics as being less able on occasion, than men to be able to commit to a successful society because in history, they rarely have held superior positions over men in a functioning community. Not that this is really correct.

Hmm, my A,P,A work is coming along it seems. Hopefully I can get that A in English I so desperately need.

[MA]

You...you guys don't want to here me opinion of sexism, but err, It's not always bad.

okay.

Hmm, I think a person is largely phased by his surroundings and how he makes his own decisions. Perhaps that is why I am so open in life but also why I am sexist to a degree. Some of my family members border on misogynous on occasion although generally this is conveyed in the format of joking so its hard to tell whether they are serious. I see nothing wrong with women and I tried them equally as I would a man except maybe, that I am more shy around them but in private I will honestly say I will make kitchen jokes and the sort as other people do.

I think that sexism has been around for thousands of years and stems back to males being naturally protective of females...it carries on into politics and religion today. One only has to read the Qu'ran (specifically the fourth sura) or some Biblical passage, even the Buddhist teachings seem to exemplify the male role while perhaps weakening the female one. But sometimes this is due to women being regarded as tempting and desiring. Despite this, most Biblical passages refer to women as equal to men as is possible and that it does not effect salvation which I suppose one might look at as the 'divine equaliser'. To apply this then to a non-religious context, women are regarded in politics as being less able on occasion, than men to be able to commit to a successful society because in history, they rarely have held superior positions over men in a functioning community. Not that this is really correct.

Hmm, my A,P,A work is coming along it seems. Hopefully I can get that A in English I so desperately need.

WE DIDN'T ASK

[Wings of Fire]

One of my friends used to complain that because women had rights to work they now had to work and so she couldn't enjoy the domestic lifestyle that had been denied to her by feminists.

I liked her inherent assumption that women have a right to a domestic lifestyle and to not work.

[T-nex]

But they do have a right to a domestic lifestyle!

[scrabface]

gender etc. never really interested me, I guess because I got a penis

anyway, although of course women and men should have the same right, I don't treat them the same way. p.e. I hold a door open for a woman, but a feminist would cut my balls for this.
another big fail is, they wanna change our austrian hymn, because one line goes: heimat bist du großer söhne - which means you are home to great sons.
now feminists raged about this and it should go you are home to great sons AND daughters. that's ridiculous, it destroys the whole rhythm.

[MeechMunchie]

I'm against sexism, but overzealous anti-sexism leads to suppression of gender distinction.

In other words, I don't want anyone to be treated unfairly because of their sex, but I don't believe they want to be or should be treated in exactly the same way, because they're not exactly the same. Men and women are different, and there is no shame in that.

I feel exactly the same abut race/age/disablility/whatever.