Mudokon Written Language

HOMINIX · #1 07-30-2014, 06:56 AM

MeechMunchie started a thread on the New n Tasty spoiler forums, "Wild Mass Guessing Thread" in which he posted this; The outside of the Scrabanian Temple in New n Tasty.

I figured I would start a new thread specifically dedicated to decoding these Mudokon texts, and leave the Wild Mass Guessing Thread to broad ideas and theories regarding the Oddworld universe in general.

This text very much interested me, so I decided to search for other examples of Mudokon script around Abe's Oddysee, and was not disappointed. The Scrabanian Temple shares many of the same symbols in both games, and even certain phrases or patterns of symbols are repeated (although one example has two symbols swapped in the New n Tasty version) over from Abe's Oddysee in New n Tasty.

Unfortunately, I do not own a PS4, so I've been relying on youtube walkthroughs to snag my NnT screens, so if there's anyone interested in this who owns a PS4 and New n Tasty, please join me in trying to find as many examples of Mudokon language as you can.

Hopefully with enough examples, we can derive meaning from some of these charcters/symbols based on their contexts!

Feel free to post your guesses as to what each message could say!

EDIT: Attached is a much larger version of the image above, for those of you who want to get a close look at the symbols.

AvengingGibbons · #2 07-30-2014, 07:01 AM

It's possible they mean something, but in my opinion it's much more likely that they're just a bunch of symbols thrown together by the artist. There was so much work to do on New n Tasty that I don't think they had time to spare on coming up with an alphabet and laying hidden messages here and there.

HOMINIX · #3 07-30-2014, 07:08 AM

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It's possible they mean something, but in my opinion it's much more likely that they're just a bunch of symbols thrown together by the artist. There was so much work to do on New n Tasty that I don't think they had time to spare on coming up with an alphabet and laying hidden messages here and there.

What excited me is that almost every symbol I found in New n Tasty came from Abe's Oddysee, which could mean they do actually have some kind of meaning (as they DID have time for that kind lore exploration before Abe's Oddysee)

But it's also a very likely possibility that none of this has any meaning and, as you said, they just were present to add to the atmosphere, like the rock paintings of Scrabs/Paramites.

If nothing else, I'd just like to catalog all the different symbols we find. Then hopefully based on their context and the order of the symbols, we could take some stabs at possible translations. But hey, I just like this kind of stuff

Auriel · #4 07-30-2014, 08:08 AM

Personally I'm hoping the mudokon language is something a bit more complex than a substitution cipher.

Scrabaniac · #5 07-30-2014, 08:16 AM

Wow this is being looked into far more deeply that it should..
Personally i think its just artwork the artists have come up with for decoration. I can't imagine designers would have sat there making up symbols for every letter of the Alphabet unless they were going to be used as proper puzzles or communication.

HOMINIX · #6 07-30-2014, 09:13 AM

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Personally I'm hoping the mudokon language is something a bit more complex than a substitution cipher.

This is what I was thinking could be the case. Characters rather than letters.

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Wow this is being looked into far more deeply that it should..
Personally i think its just artwork the artists have come up with for decoration. I can't imagine designers would have sat there making up symbols for every letter of the Alphabet unless they were going to be used as proper puzzles or communication.

This may very well be true, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think these symbols were sketched out by Lorne or one of the artists with possible meanings back when AO was being developed. It's the consistency of the order in which the symbols appear that makes me think they might have a meaning.

Crashpunk · #7 07-30-2014, 09:15 AM

Yeah agreed with Scrabniac. Even if it was a real, coded language. I doubt Lorne or any of the artists would give it away or even say it's a real thing.

Scrabaniac · #8 07-30-2014, 09:22 AM

I don't think it has meaning, Its easy to come up with 5-10 symbols and just repeat them after different symbols to make patterns. I would believe that they set each symbol a meaning if they implemented into the game that the player had to learn transcripts to find clues etc

HOMINIX · #9 07-30-2014, 09:51 AM

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Yeah agreed with Scrabniac. Even if it was a real, coded language. I doubt Lorne or any of the artists would give it away or even say it's a real thing.

Lame... At the very least, I found out that they're the same symbols as in Oddysee, which is cool.

Also, here are some different looking symbols found on the employee counter boards in New n Tasty if anyone is interested.

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I don't think it has meaning, Its easy to come up with 5-10 symbols and just repeat them after different symbols to make patterns. I would believe that they set each symbol a meaning if they implemented into the game that the player had to learn transcripts to find clues etc

I was imagining it like how they have a bunch of reference documents for A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones novel series) that aren't necessarily available to the public, but are kept by the creators.

It seems like a lot of the details about the Oddworld universe have been thought out already by Lorne Lanning, such as the Mudokons' spiritual powers etc. so I don't think it's too out of the question to think he has a written language (or at least parts of it) drawn out on one of the assuredly hundreds of Oddworld-related documents in his possession.

Manco · #10 07-30-2014, 11:02 AM

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Also, here are some different looking symbols found on the employee counter boards in New n Tasty if anyone is interested.

I’m no expert, but those symbols look like they may be Japanese of some kind, or at least made to loosely resemble it. Difficult to tell without better image quality though.

HOMINIX · #11 07-30-2014, 11:09 AM

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I’m no expert, but those symbols look like they may be Japanese of some kind, or at least made to loosely resemble it. Difficult to tell without better image quality though.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. They look like they're heavily inspired by written oriental languages.

Could be a written language used in industrial culture, given their locations in RF

Jordan · #12 07-30-2014, 01:26 PM

Interesting thought but as others have said I believe it was an artistic decision to make the place look more mystical. I never imagined Mudokons to even have their own language but it aint out of the question

Job McYossie · #13 07-30-2014, 06:33 PM

A bunch a people here are saying that they doubt Lorne or other designers would spend so much time on this thing, but I seriously disagree. There is already so much background detail that isn't just there for atmosphere and has actual story/world purpose, that I don't see why they wouldn't, at the least, make a direct English alphabet trans.

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Personally I'm hoping the mudokon language is something a bit more complex than a substitution cipher.

Although I'd much prefer that, would make it seem more real, but that would also mean that designers would have to design an entirely new way of speaking.

HOMINIX · #14 07-30-2014, 08:10 PM

Can anyone with New n Tasty do a little sleuthing around various areas in pursuit of more examples? Or just keep an eye peeled next time you're playing?

For that matter, also look around for them in AO/AE and MO too if anyone will be playing those in the near future!

Please share screenshots of your findings!

kjjcarpenter · #15 07-30-2014, 11:20 PM

I like how a topic for conversation is immediately turned down by half of this forum. Nothing much has changed in thirteen years. At least we're consistent.

HOMINIX · #16 07-31-2014, 08:18 AM

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I like how a topic for conversation is immediately turned down by half of this forum. Nothing much has changed in thirteen years. At least we're consistent.

It's just as I remember

Wish I could find some of my posts from back in ~2005 here but I have no oddly recollection of what my username was

HOMINIX · #17 08-02-2014, 08:34 AM

Can someone with New n Tasty upload full screenshots of the Directories in the Scrabanian and Paramonian temples? I realized that they have more diverse symbols, and they seem to be labeling different objects in each of the rooms (such as switches, levers etc)

This could be great for finding out possible meanings! Can't find a LPer on youtube who takes the time to look through them, so they aren't very legible.

I've attached an image to show you what I'm talking about.

MeechMunchie · #18 08-02-2014, 10:17 AM

The symbols in the middle say "SCRABANIA"

HOMINIX · #19 08-02-2014, 12:00 PM

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The symbols in the middle say "SCRABANIA"

That's a load off my mind.

So, I'm assuming you lost interest in this topic after your original post in your "Guessing" thread?

MeechMunchie · #20 08-02-2014, 06:13 PM

Pretty much. It was a ~~Scrab~~ stab in the dark, rather than a theory I had much confidence in (hence why I put it in an amalgamate thread).

In the absence of any Rosetta Stone-style surface that shows something in both MudoScript (Mudosian?) and English, I'm assuming that the symbols are just there for decoration.

HOMINIX · #21 08-02-2014, 09:53 PM

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In the absence of any Rosetta Stone-style surface that shows something in both MudoScript (Mudosian?) and English, I'm assuming that the symbols are just there for decoration.

In the directories, the phases appear to be labeling things. If it is in fact a reflection of the English alphabet, we would at least be able to have supporting evidence for possible phrase meanings based on their context. If a label next to a "bell" shares the same last three symbols as the label next to a "well", you could at least have a more confident guess as to what each symbol represents. You could then try plugging those values into other labels containing those symbols, to see if they too form English words.

MeechMunchie · #22 08-03-2014, 12:13 AM

I'd say the best place to start would be mapping out the levels and seeing if the labels used are even consistent. If there's no correlation between certain symbols and certain objects, you've pretty much hit a dead end.

HOMINIX · #23 08-03-2014, 12:17 AM

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I'd say the best place to start would be mapping out the levels and seeing if the labels used are even consistent. If there's no correlation between certain symbols and certain objects, you've pretty much hit a dead end.

Absolutely. It does look like some of the phrases aren't labeling anything in particular, but that's why I wanted others to post closer-up pictures of the directory stones to make sure.

Do you own New n Tasty? If so would you mind snagging some screenshots for us? I want to see if there's anything to this hunch of mine. Paramonia especially.

AvengingGibbons · #24 08-03-2014, 02:54 AM

i have a feeling, if these marking do have meaning, that each single character represents a single word.

***Xavier*** · #25 08-04-2014, 04:26 AM

It wouldn't surprise me that those symbols actually mean something.

Plus it could be those symbols were given some meaning between the release of AO and the development of NnT. It's possible the artists working on AO simply thought they were cool and then later on someone from OWI/JAW took them and made a language out of them.