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  #1  
01-19-2014, 12:33 PM
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Gaming Piracy

Okay, so to start this off I'm going to say this: I don't pirate games anymore. I used to, a lot. Like, I think I spent more time torrenting than I did playing the games I downloaded. Anyways, I wanted to see what other people thought about piracy, because a lot of people call it a grey (gray?) zone. Some people say "I don't want to support the company (Usually EA) that made this game because they are evil." While others say: "I want to make sure it runs on my system before I buy it." So at what point does piracy leave the grey zone and become black? Is there even a grey zone?

In my opinion, piracy is alright if you are trying to demo a game, but the company doesn't offer a free demo already. And as much as I have a burning hate for EA nowadays, I still will buy their game if I really want it. Though I don't think I'll buy another game from them with the exception of The Sims 4.
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  #2  
01-19-2014, 01:26 PM
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It's wrong. You can't justify it because it's illegal, people worked hard on the game and you're stealing it.

That being said I'd pirate games if I could be arsed. I never pirate anything by smaller, indie developers/ artists/ etc because I'd rather give my money to the little guy. Still not justifiable btw, but eh.
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  #3  
01-19-2014, 01:27 PM
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Normally, I only pirate a game I don't know anything about and is usually expensive. I prefer to play it first and if it's good, I buy it. As money is a thing more and more scarce, I need to choose really well what to buy. But last time I pirated a game, was around 2009, I think.
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  #4  
01-19-2014, 01:29 PM
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EA sucks balls.
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  #5  
01-19-2014, 01:34 PM
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I download EA's stuff based purely on principle. Gotta say I can't remember the last time I downloaded other games though. Steam provides a very convenient alternative.
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  #6  
01-19-2014, 01:37 PM
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Steam provides a very convenient alternative.
This. And Humble Bundle for dirt cheap packs.
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  #7  
01-19-2014, 01:37 PM
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I have never pirated a game and in fact anything in my life. If there is a game I'm not too sure about buying, I'll see if anyone else has played it, hear what they say and maybe even borrow the game if it's a hardcopy.

With Steam having sales at least 4 times a year and the fact the whole service makes life so much easier, I don't see any reason why you would Pirate.

Also I think pirating a game just because you hate the company is a massive waste of time if it's a giant company. It's absolutely disgusting if it's a indie company.
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  #8  
01-19-2014, 02:03 PM
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The only two objectively justified reasons for pirating a game are:

1. It's either not available in your country* or it's no longer available at all (after the death of Bullfrog and before GOG, the only way to get hold of Dungeon Keeper was to steal it). If you ask most devs, they'd rather someone genuinely unable to buy their game stole it than didn't play it at all. They're in the business of fun, after all.

2. You already own a copy of the game in question, but you want to play without the restrictions of included DRM, such as always-online requirements. If you've paid for a game, you are entitled to play it, and poor service on the part of the publisher does not change that.

And moving onto more nebulous territory...

Personally, I think that video games are pretty much the only industry besides food where you're not allowed to try out something before purchasing it as an industry standard, and I do believe that it's a sensible decision to try something out via piracy before throwing money down. That said, I rarely spend more than £4 on a game nowadays, so it's been a long, long time since I've actually needed to exercise that belief. Just don't forget (or "forget") to buy a copy when you're satisfied, eh?

A lot of people think that if you lose the disc for one of your games, you're morally entitled to pirate a copy, since you've already paid for it. I'm kind of OK with that, though I'd rather people just looked after their stuff. I have used that logic in the past, though in both instances the game was no longer available anyway.** I'm a grown man now, and I like to imagine that I hold myself to a higher moral standard. What with the rise of digital distribution, though, it's pretty much a moot point.

The only other time I can remember pirating a PC game was Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, because that game was so notoriously broken that a) in the UK it'd probably be considered void under Sale of Goods and b) the torrent actually included all the required fan-patches. When the pirate versions of your game are more stable than the commercial version, you've pretty much failed as a developer. That said, I still had enough fun with it that I bought it on Steam.

Oh, wait a minute, I also pirated Baldur's Gate II, but solely for the game assets used in a mod for Baldur's Gate I, which I legally own. I commit crimes for the weirdest reasons.

I've got a few console ROMS, mainly for Nintendo handhelds, plus a couple for Gamecube. I don't think I'd be able to buy a Gamecube firsthand today, so that probably counts as "no longer available" - you can get them used, but none of the money is going to reach the people who made and distributed the console,*** so there's not much difference to them whether you pirate their games or not.

As for the handhelds, some would say that since I have no intention of owning a DS (or any handheld gaming thing), I never had the option to play these legally, and, with no ports or official emulator planned, was simply never part of the market for these games. I've never really liked that argument either, since I still technically could buy a DS and play them legally - the fact that my lifestyle choices mean I won't is neither here nor there. While I don't believe that the availability of illegal ROMS factors into my decision not to own a DS - I never bought one in all the years before it occurred to me to pirate the games - no-one can actually prove that, and an argument based solely on beliefs isn't a very good one.

Apart from that total of about 6, I don't own any pirated games. I do own a sizeable-but-not-massive amount of pirated music and software, but that's just because I'm an ignorant scumbag.

Oh, and if someone makes that stupid "piracy isn't stealing because it's digital" argument, I will do horrible, horrible things to the corpses of their family. You're recieving goods without paying your fee. You're stealing. It's not unforgivable, but it is a crime. Fucking deal with it.

*I read manga online occasionally, another form of IP theft, but this argument is so widespread outside of Japan that everyone kind of forgets it's illegal.

**DK and Age of Wonders - in fact, for Age of Wonders, it wasn't even negligence that cost me my copy, I'd just used the disc so much over the years that the hole in the middle had worn open; It stopped working when the disc wasn't stable enough to for the laser to read.

***Note "distributed". You might not like EA or Ubisoft, but without their distribution arms, you wouldn't be able to buy their games at all. They do their part, and deserve their cut. Not to mention the fact that they bankroll these games in the first place...


Last edited by MeechMunchie; 01-19-2014 at 02:29 PM..
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  #9  
01-19-2014, 02:16 PM
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MM's post made me realise that I stopped pirating DS games after my mum got a 3DS. I haven't started buying them, I've just stopped playing them.

The worst thing I ever pirated recently was Cube World when that finally released in alpha, because I wasn't convinced that I wanted to spend money on it. It wasn't very good, so I saved myself some heartache there. It's not justified, but I could definitely feel worse about it.
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  #10  
01-19-2014, 02:27 PM
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The only time I've ever torrented a game is if I have already bought a hardcopy and lost it, or if I've bought a hardcopy and wish to play it on a different platform. For instance, I torrented Skyrim to play on the PC after having bought two copies (Original and Legendary Edition) on the PS3.

I also admitted some time before to having torrented Abe's Oddysee, however this was after losing my hardcopy coupled with some rather unfortunated Paul's LVL Editor mistakes.

Though now that I have a job and steady income I'm hoping to buy the OddBoxx and the upcoming Elder Scrolls: Online to pay for my sins.
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  #11  
01-19-2014, 03:25 PM
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  #12  
01-19-2014, 08:50 PM
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:
I also admitted some time before to having torrented Abe's Oddysee, however this was after losing my hardcopy coupled with some rather unfortunated Paul's LVL Editor mistakes.

Though now that I have a job and steady income I'm hoping to buy the OddBoxx and the upcoming Elder Scrolls: Online to pay for my sins.
Same, I torrented AO a long long time ago. To be fair, it was my father who torrented the game upon my slight obsession of watching the cutscenes on YouTube back in middle-school. Since then though, I have bought AO for PS once and PC twice (Once for a friend), bought AE for PC and PS, MO for PC, and SW for PS3 and PC.
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  #13  
01-19-2014, 09:18 PM
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I agree with MeechMunchie's two "objectively justified reasons" for pirating a game but I also pirate a game to try it out before I buy it.
A lot of the time I play the game for 30 minutes and find that I don't like it, so I don't end up paying for it as I won't ever play it again.
On the other hand I remember pirating the full version of Minecraft a long time ago and I really enjoyed it so I bought it, the same with Portal 2; I bought the PS3 and PC version of that.

All the games that I actually play I pay for.

I've torrented most of the games that I own already (like PS1 [and GBC games]) because it's a lot easier than converting the CD to an ISO for playing on the PC or PSP.
As with Job McYossie I've bought AO for the PS twice and for PC, AE for PS twice and PC, MO for XBOX (I actually bought a second hand XBOX just for this game) and PC, and SW for PC and PS3.

I think the bottom line is you can download whatever you like, but if you play it you should pay for it (unless you have already bought it, even for another console.)

Last edited by Littleleeroy; 01-19-2014 at 09:22 PM..
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  #14  
01-19-2014, 09:21 PM
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I pirate old games all the time just because I don't have the console it was run on and can't be fucked with sprawling through the internet in search of the game or the system. I don't see anything wrong with that really, I mean they're pretty much all discontinued anyways so what's the harm?

Pirating games that you could be paying for that people rely on for part of their salary or income, that's a different story. But some big, faceless companies like EA I don't always have problems with stealing from, not that I do it often. I like owning games anyways and pirating can be a pain in the ass.
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  #15  
01-19-2014, 09:32 PM
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I have 3TB of pirated anime but the only game I've ever pirated and not owned is Mother 3, because it never got translated.

I've also bought like forty games on Steam I've never played so power to the megacorps!
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  #16  
01-20-2014, 12:20 AM
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Bungle, what if the game got rereleased? I was feeling the same way about pirating Parrapa the Rappa until I realised that it was now on a few other modern platforms.

I also pirated Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix+ because it was only in Japanese, and now that's getting a HD rerelease in English.
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  #17  
01-20-2014, 12:26 AM
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I'm not going to say I never pirate games because I have done and still do in certain circumstances.

If I want to play an old game I'll usually download a ROM for it and emulate it. My only justification for this is that the game is old enough to not particularly "harm" the developer if it is pirated. Besides, they usually charge a ridiculous fee for it over XBL/PSN/Nintendo Store.
I also still own an R4 card for pirating NDS games, which I would still consider using if I had more time.

Other than that I don't pirate games. I wholeheartedly agree with supporting developers in any way possible and would rather give them my money so they can continue working on other games. I'm beginning to appreciate how much they need the money, especially small indie developers. Because I'd like to work in the games industry one day, I'd dislike it if someone were to pirate one of my games. You'd be surprised how many people on my course pirate every single fucking game they can.
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  #18  
01-21-2014, 07:58 AM
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It's wrong. You can't justify it because it's illegal, people worked hard on the game and you're stealing it.
Except you're not stealing. And saying you can't justify something because it's illegal is silly, there are tonnes of bullshit laws nowadays.

I pirated a bunch of shit. AO, AE (Of course, I'd already bought the games twice before then and one since), Silent Hill 4... Pirating from indie companies is pretty bad, but unusually most of the companies I've seen discuss the topic aren't really that bothered, they're just happy that people are playing the games.

Thinking about it, those three up there are the only games I've ever pirated, not because it's 'morally wrong' but just because I've never really had to. I think if it's under a tenner I'll just save up to buy it and if it's over a tenner then it's probably a big game, so pirating it would be pointless because I wouldn't be able to play it on my shitty PC. Most pirated games fuck up at some point, in my experience at least.
Oh yeah, Portal, before I bought that (twice) I pirated it from a friends PC and stuck it on my laptop because I had no internet at the time. It ran like shit.
Silent Hill 4 was alright but I didn't enjoy the game so I uninstalled it.
Old games like that aren't in production anymore so even if you did buy it the original development team wouldn't be getting any money.

I wouldn't pirate indie games just in the same way that I wouldn't pirate indie music (I actually do sometimes but I still feel guilty about it).
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  #19  
01-21-2014, 08:59 AM
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Except you're not stealing.
You seem to believe this is some kind of a priori truth.

It is not.

:
And saying you can't justify something because it's illegal is silly, there are tonnes of bullshit laws nowadays.
Yeah, there are lots of good ones too. Like the ones that prohibit theft.

:
but unusually most of the companies I've seen discuss the topic aren't really that bothered, they're just happy that people are playing the games.
Ahhh, anecdotal evidence. The best kind!

:
Old games like that aren't in production anymore so even if you did buy it the original development team wouldn't be getting any money.
Most old games you can now get from digitial retailers and the original developers would get a slice of the profit.

:
I wouldn't pirate indie games just in the same way that I wouldn't pirate indie music (I actually do sometimes but I still feel guilty about it).
'As an unnecessary addendum to my argument: I have standards but sometimes break them.'
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  #20  
01-21-2014, 09:09 AM
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Most old games you can now get from digitial retailers and the original developers would get a slice of the profit.
I think “most” is an overstatement. Certainly there are a large amount of old PC games available on digital platforms, but there are quite a lot that have never been republished, and most consoles are quite limited in their backwards compatibility, only supporting one or two previous generations.

Sony and Nintendo probably have the best track records for backwards compatibility, and even then the PS3 only supports PS1, the PS4 doesn’t support any older platforms, and Nintendo consoles only support one previous generation at a time.
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  #21  
01-21-2014, 09:25 AM
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As a rule, and let's make this rule, no one gives a shit if you pirate something that you can not obtain legally. As another rule, if you take something for free, and it is not free, and you go on to state your reasons why you think you should have it for free, you are a stupid person who lies to yourself about your own motives.

If you make no excuses, know it's wrong, and do it anyways, well, you're just a thief. Not great, but preferable to the lying cunt shits who tell themselves that it's okay.
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  #22  
01-21-2014, 09:33 AM
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I pirate games just to spite OANST. I feel justified. I don't even play them.
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  #23  
01-21-2014, 09:34 AM
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At least he has a valid reason.
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  #24  
01-21-2014, 10:42 AM
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I agree to what MM said earlier... But obviously it's a bad thing if you pirate a readily available game and enjoy it with the intention of not supporting the devs. Also agreed with OANST on that.

Still, I don't have a reason to do it, 'cause I'd rather support the devs, even if it's crappy EA or another big company. Digital distribution sales make gaming an affordable luxury for Mr. Part-time-job over here (but not that piracy would be justified if it weren't an affordable hobby), and I'd be disappointed if Valve ever decide to stop the Steam sales in future for whatever reason.

But yeah, I pirated a couple of obscure DOS classics in the days before commercial digital distribution was a thing and I couldn't find what I wanted through Play.com or high street chains (Back in mah day, we had no Steam sales! We had to get our discounts from "budget range" re-releases of older games! I found AE that way). Lack of availability and all that.

Demos are good for legitimately trying a game though, even if some don't show enough of a game to see what it's really like (such as the Brutal Legend demo during its PS3 release), but I wish more games would have them... There have been a few games I've bought in the past which had no demos that I didn't enjoy. But I suppose there's YouTube and Let's Plays for that.

Anyone remember those PS1 demo disks which came with magazines?
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  #25  
01-21-2014, 10:52 AM
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I had a tonne of them. Sheep, Dog 'n' Wolf is where it's at.
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  #26  
01-21-2014, 12:37 PM
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I had a tonne of them. Sheep, Dog 'n' Wolf is where it's at.
Woah

Woaaaaah

I remember that!
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  #27  
01-21-2014, 12:42 PM
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I loved this game!
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  #28  
01-21-2014, 03:58 PM
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I played nothing but PC Gamer demo discs when I had no internet for a month. That was an interesting time.

:
Oh, and if someone makes that stupid "piracy isn't stealing because it's digital" argument, I will do horrible, horrible things to the corpses of their family. You're recieving goods without paying your fee. You're stealing. It's not unforgivable, but it is a crime. Fucking deal with it.
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Except you're not stealing.
lol

I think a lot of the mud in the water surrounding piracy is the distinction between "justified" and "excusable". If you bought, played and subsequently lost a game, and now decide you want to play it again without paying, it's still pretty scummy, it's just a marginally less scummy than someone who never paid at all.

It just happens to be a margin people are very defensive of, as mysteriously seems to be the case with any ethical standpoint that could save them money.

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  #29  
01-21-2014, 08:32 PM
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Man, with all this response, I could write a 7 page essay. Gonna keep this thread in mind if I need some research material.
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  #30  
01-22-2014, 08:48 PM
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to be completely frank (no my name is not Frank), it isn't really a 'scummy' thing to do, or at least not to my definition. taking from an orphanage's fix-the-roof charity fund is scummy. punching a crippled world war veteran in the face is scummy. my poorly-made point is that there are much worse crimes committed digitally. doesn't excuse piracy from being a crime, but it definitely does make it one of the very 'lesser' crimes. it's fucking digital pirating at the end of the day, online bullshit, absolutely anyone can do it, anywhere, anytime, and very quickly and easily at that. all you need is some form of internet connection.

yet again, that isn't meant as an excuse, it's meant as an indicator to how small a problem (or big, depending on your outlook) it is when looking at the big picture. it's very common, and to be honest, at this stage, no one with any power over that area really gives a shit about it right now. they're off chasing possible terrorist organisations and threats to government. copyright and piracy kind of take a back seat, and go to lesser powers to deal with.

some people who admit to doing this shit are hypocrites because they will either say "i don't pirate, apart from blah blah blah or that one time etc" or "i pirate but it's not stealing lol" or "i pirate but also spend all my money on their fucking merch" or some other variation. not all of those people, but some. what i say is "i pirate shit, because i don't give a fucking shit. i am poor. does that excuse my conduct? no it does not, i never said it did. all i ever said is i don't give a fucking shit, so leave me alone."

so if that makes me a thief then hell, i'm a thief. fucking sue me (lolololol b careful wat u wish 4). on a completely unrelated note if anyone wishes to browse my wares they need only ask, i'd be happy to oblige and be a middle man for all your piracy and swashbuckling needs ARRRRRRRR ME HEARTIES

so what i'm saying here is it's bad and breaking the law and fuck em. fuck em hard.

it might not last forever, so exploit the situation, kids! that is my filthy opinion. you can fuck it hard.
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