GTA 4: The most moral game, yet?

[Jacob]

The GTA series are constantly hounded and mired in controversy from either idiot conservatives or...idiots in general.


GTA 4 is no different - the fact you can kill anybody, steal cars, drink drive, sleep with Prostitutes then beat them to death with a Baseball bat to reclaim your money all help to weigh down the hammer of the morality preachers.

...but is it really that bad?

When i first played GTA 4, i was struck by how moral and sympathetic the character was. ...of how moral the game itself actually was.

For instance any character that does Drugs either admits their abuse of them is a problem, or dies.

Niko himself, rarely drinks, but never touches Drugs.

He rarely hits women (the exception being Gracie).

And he'll do anything for his friends and family, showing complete loyalty to them, no matter who or what they are.

It seems all the other actions, the less moral actions, are deemed by the person playing. If you take all that out, you get a decent game with a decent message.

...does anybody else agree?

End.

[Daxter King]

"Im done with killing people, Im in America now" -Niko

"I need you to kill these people Niko" -Anyone in the game

"How much?" -Niko

[Bullet Magnet]

I should think that a game where you are rewarded for doing good and punished for harming others would be much more moral. Can anyone think of a game such as that?

[Wings of Fire]

I should think that a game where you are rewarded for doing good and punished for harming others would be much more moral. Can anyone think of a game such as that?

Any game with a broken morality system like Fable and Bioshock where the pros of doing good far outweigh the cons.

[DarkHoodness]

(Shouldn't this be in "Non-Oddworld gaming"?)

I always found it weird that Niko, as a character, is portrayed as having a morality in the storyline, yet the player could make him do all kinds of evil things for no reason whatsoever. Unlike Tommy Vercetti from Vice City for example, who didn't appear to have much morality at all and only seemed to care about his comrades for the sake of convenience.

EDIT: Thinking about it, Carl Johnson from San Andreas was a bit like that too, except not as caring as Niko.

[MeechMunchie]

I never liked the arguments people use against these sorts of games. People say: "In this game you can hire a prostitute, then kill her! Outrageous!" But you can do that in real life, too. I'd say the fact that someone intentionally does that within the game is more unpleasant than the decision to put it in the game in the first place.

[Mac Sirloin]

Saints Row 2 was better anyway. And more fun.

[Dixanadu]

Saints Row 2 was better anyway. And more fun.

I agree. It actually had a good story, plus it was fun car-surfing.

[Dynamithix]

I didn't get into SR2, it's fun, but I just found the story very unappealing. I don't know.

Also, GTA IV's story was good, but it was missing the fun. Saints Row 2 succeeded in the fun part though.

[Dixanadu]

GTA seems dull and colourless, I only ever got into the first, second, London version and San Andreas.

Something about the birds eye view ones always got me good.

[Wings of Fire]

GTA seems dull and colourless, I only ever got into the first, second, London version and San Andreas.

Something about the birds eye view ones always got me good.

Your criticism is dull and colourless, you got into San Andreas, you didn't get into Vice City.

I don't see your logic at all.

[Dixanadu]

GTA 3 didn't do it for me, I never bothered to get Vice City as a result because it looked the same save for 80's jizz smeared all over it.

I stayed at my friends one night and he played San Andreas, and I helped him out and got into it before buying it myself.

I gave Vice City a chance after that, but it still didn't impress me.

I saw my friend playing GTA IV when it came out, pretty graphics but it looked dull...and colourless.

I'm not bothering with the episodic content.

Happy now? You big immense fart.

[Wings of Fire]

If there's one thing Vice City isn't, it's dull and colourless. It's why I prefer it to San Andreas.

That, and the lack of Sweet.

[DarkHoodness]

Agreed that Vice City isn't dull and colourless (though GTA:SA is pretty damned good too even though the characters were hard to warm up to). Perhaps still my favourite out of the GTA games in terms of atmosphere, and so much so that I've replayed it about 5 or 6 times since 2002. It really did make me feel that I missed out on something by not experiencing the 80s.

[Dixanadu]

I dinn like it one wiww bit.

[Mac Sirloin]

I prefer it to San Andreas.

You have questionable taste in sandbox games. Rockstar peaked at San Andreas and now everything they release is some embarrassing attempt at making it seem like they know how to write a good story, which they don't. I'm not counting Bully. Everything between GTA III and San Andreas was fine, but SA is still their shining star.

EDIT: Fixed to not be so dickish.

[Wings of Fire]

You're not allowed to voice your opinions in this thread anymore.

I'm not kidding. You have bad taste in sandbox games. Rockstar peaked at San Andreas and now everything they release is some embarrassing attempt at making it seem like they know how to write a good story, which they don't. I'm not counting Bully. Everything between GTA III and San Andreas was fine, but SA is still their shining star.

Did I say I dislike San Andreas? No. I dislike the bullshit aircraft training, the wholly unsympathetic cast, the far weaker music stations and the lack of glowy purple trails.

It was a better and more solid game, but fuck did it lack Vice City's style.

[Mac Sirloin]

To be fair, my opinion is pretty invalid since I haven't completed any GTA game.

Rockstar is still a pretentious, stupid publisher, though.

I didn't get into SR2, it's fun, but I just found the story very unappealing. I don't know.

What they never explicitly stated was that you're supposed to complete the gangs in a specific order, and the story will suffer if you don't follow that order (Samedi, Brotherhood, Ronin), because it seems like a bunch of random events otherwise. It's comparatively uninteresting for the first 3 hours, but once you get some character perks it gets better. Especially with infinite sprinting.

[Dixanadu]

Agreed that Vice City isn't dull and colourless

I didn't actually say that it was.

[nowtun]

San Andreas was a solid game, bit too far fetched at times but still good (an improvement on the last 2 games)
Vice city had a great story but the city itself sucked, yes it looked like miami from the 80s but it had far too much wasted space and not enough "City" areas, I mean the airport took up nearly half of the left island.

saints row just fails at eveything. I bought the first one in 2006...ish and i liked it, but this was before i'd even seen gta 4. i then bought the sequel blindly expecting a better game... i was wrong. the visuals are so awfull that i cant believe its on the current gen consoles, the controls are clumsy and the gameplay is just... old and fartish.

gta 4 by far surpasses any other sandbox title, mafia 2 comes close but the gameplay and lifespan lets it down.

[Manco]

You have questionable taste in sandbox games. Rockstar peaked at San Andreas and now everything they release is some embarrassing attempt at making it seem like they know how to write a good story, which they don't. I'm not counting Bully. Everything between GTA III and San Andreas was fine, but SA is still their shining star.

EDIT: Fixed to not be so dickish.

Red Dead Redemption would like a word with you.

[Mac Sirloin]

Red Dead Redemption was incredibly fucking boring and I spent far too much time going from place to place on my horse. The random events/encounters that are supposed to happen in the wilderness were samey and pointless. The story was trite and the ending made the entire point of playing as John Marston pointless.

saints row just fails at eveything. I bought the first one in 2006...ish and i liked it, but this was before i'd even seen gta 4. i then bought the sequel blindly expecting a better game... i was wrong. the visuals are so awfull that i cant believe its on the current gen consoles, the controls are clumsy and the gameplay is just... old and fartish.

Hahaha, look at this loser with his bad opinions. Saints Row 2 is a fine looking game (especially if you can afford an HDTV, which I can) and if you had any problem with the controls at all, it has nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with whatever is wrong with you that could make you play the game clumsily. If there's one single thing I can say stands out over everything else in Saints Row 2, it's that the controls are really tight.

In closing: you suck.

[Nemo]

Hey guys I have an opinion too, can I be insulted?

[T-nex]

Please remember to be respectful of one another. Personal attacks warrant infractions.

I dunno if you were joking or what Mac, but if not, I really think you should try and tone it down a bit.

[metroixer]

Red Dead Redemption is the only game from rockstar since Vice City that I could not only play but keep wanting to play. Maybe it's the setting or something, but I absolutely love it.

GTA4 had an interesting idea with the story but, as stated, it fell flat because all your player character could do was drive and kill people.

[Dynamithix]

What they never explicitly stated was that you're supposed to complete the gangs in a specific order, and the story will suffer if you don't follow that order (Samedi, Brotherhood, Ronin), because it seems like a bunch of random events otherwise. It's comparatively uninteresting for the first 3 hours, but once you get some character perks it gets better. Especially with infinite sprinting.

Yeah, I had a feeling you had to do the gang missions too. I never fought the Ronin because my name is Roni and I would've felt bad.

[Daxter King]

Red Dead Redemption was incredibly fucking boring and I spent far too much time going from place to place on my horse. The random events/encounters that are supposed to happen in the wilderness were samey and pointless. The story was trite and the ending made the entire point of playing as John Marston pointless.

By all of your complaints, it is very clear, you just don't get Red Dead Redemption. Everyone else I have ever spoken to has listed your cons as pros.

Also,

Hahaha, look at this loser with his bad opinions. Saints Row 2 is a fine looking game (especially if you can afford an HDTV, which I can) and if you had any problem with the controls at all, it has nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with whatever is wrong with you that could make you play the game clumsily. If there's one single thing I can say stands out over everything else in Saints Row 2, it's that the controls are really tight.

In closing: you suck.

What the fuck does that even mean?

[Phylum]

It means that some current gen games look like utter shit in standard definition. Nascar '09 is a perfect example.

[Mac Sirloin]

Spoiler alert.

Yeah, I had a feeling you had to do the gang missions too. I never fought the Ronin because my name is Roni and I would've felt bad.

Are you Japanese? Do you wear yellow motorcycle jackets everywhere and use a Katana? If no, it's okay, they're just bits of code. Killing Police in Sandbox games makes me feel bad If yes, can we best friends and will you drive me somewhere on your motorcycle?

Hey guys I have an opinion too, can I be insulted?

I don't care.

I dunno if you were joking or what Mac, but if not, I really think you should try and tone it down a bit.

Okey dokey. I mean, I'm still completely 100% flawlessly correct in everything I say and do, but I'll refrain from name calling. Maybe I should refrain from this thread, since it's a solid 3 years too late anyway.

By all of your complaints, it is very clear, you just don't get Red Dead Redemption. Everyone else I have ever spoken to has listed your cons as pros.

That's because people will always suck the dick that already has the most spit on it.
Don't get me wrong, I liked parts of RDR fine. It just felt like a waste of my time once I completed it. Literally like some waste-of-space Rockstar employee spitting on me then deminding I thank them for it.
Additionally, I thought it was an ugly game, but it took awhile. It was like having someone slowly throwing up poopy pusbarf in my eye over the course of a month, and I didn't realize it was happening until it was a solid crust on my face, sustaining a wet sublayer that leaked down my nose and into my esophagus. Then being hit by a book with a bad ending. That was RDR for me. Your mileage may vary, but it was a huge disappointment for me. I was all over the old west when I was younger, and then this fartsoup gets poured on me and every single person is telling me it was a masterpiece, or that (and seriously, WOW at this) that I don't 'get' it. What is there to get? That everything you do is pointless. That's all. Tell me otherwise, and I'll belittle you. It sucked for me. It was a waste of my time.

What the fuck does that even mean?

Tenuous Aqua Teen hunger Force reference. Carl says it. Season 6. Episode 1: "Robots Everywhere". I wouldn't be calling out class trash over some 'tarded little GTAIV discussion. Least of all because of my magnificent television.

It means that some current gen games look like utter shit in standard definition. Nascar '09 is a perfect example.

Saints Row 2 was fine either way, but yeah.

[nowtun]

Hahaha, look at this loser with his bad opinions. Saints Row 2 is a fine looking game (especially if you can afford an HDTV, which I can) and if you had any problem with the controls at all, it has nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with whatever is wrong with you that could make you play the game clumsily. If there's one single thing I can say stands out over everything else in Saints Row 2, it's that the controls are really tight.

In closing: you suck.[/QUOTE]

for starters, sr2 looks even more wank in HD (and how sad do you have to be to boast about being able to afford a HDTV? who cant afford one these days?

i said nothing of the controls making the game "difficult", its actually too easy a game. but the controls couldnt be any further from being tight. it doesnt even feel that there is any weight behind the characters at all, just flailing rag dolls.