Scrabania and Paramonia

[Nate]

Well the discussion in the "Abe and Oddysee cast to appear on TV" thread got me thinking.

Scrabs and paramites are native to (or at least most common in) scrabania and paramonia. But we have seen them in other locations as well.

Rupture Farms: Obviously they were taken here by the glukkons.
Necrum: Were they allowed into the Mudanchee and Mudomo (I may have gotten those tribe names wrong) vaults by the tribes themselve to act as 'guard dogs'?
Now the one that confuses me the most is the wilderness areas in MO. Did the glukkons take them there to farm them? Or did they travel naturally out of Scrabania and Paramonia and breed when they found the right environment? OR did they once cover the whole (or a lot of) Mudos and as the industrialists took over they were pushed back into the few small pockets of wilderness that were left? The last one seems likely as that is similar to the way certain native australian animals have been reduced by the loss of habitat. For instance there have been discussions (and it may have happened for real) about culling koalas because they breed too fast and are overpopulating the small areas of habitat left.

[Esus]

It is my thought that they can be anywhere in Mudos. Nowhere (I think) does it say that they are only native to Paramonia or Scrabania - they're just the run o' the mill Mudos predators who inhabit areas like their native lands, such as forested or desert-like areas.

[Mac the Janitor]

Yeah, different herds go to different places. They aren't really restricted by much.

[Wil]

My thoughts exactly. Simple spread of the species. That's not to say that Paramonia and Scrabania aren't the landscapes which Paramites and Scrabs are most adapt to surviving in, and hence most likely the environments they more than likely owe their evolutionary path to. In that sense I'm guessing these lands are their 'native' lands.

On the other hand, why aren't there Scrabs in the Necrum desert? It's hot, with compact ground, meaning they can traverse it with their single toes. I'm guessing there's simply no sustainable eco-system there.

[Mac the Janitor]

Yup, I'm guessing that's because they mainly look for where an abundant food supply is...and the Necrum desert was just dead.

[Codek]

My personal thoughts on it, are that MO was horribly wrong, and a total mess. The continuity was poor. The graphics were awful. And the story was lame.

Overall, I don't consider MO part of the OW quintology. I consider it an accident. Whatever info is in AO and AE is true, and anything in MO is just wrong anyway, by default. Simple.

[Nate]

Well if you think that they can survive anywhere, then why are there places called Paramonia and Scrabania? It seems likely to me that these places are at least the 'capitals' of the animal's habitats

[Mac the Janitor]

Actually, Paramonia and Scrabania are simply mudokon temples worshipping the creatures, that's all.

[Nate]

No, because the temples are called the Scrabanian Temple and the Paramonian Temple. Thus they are the temples located in those places.

[Esus]

They are holy sites where the animals are in abundance.
If I renamed my town Horseania, imported tons of horses and built a temple to horses - does that mean that they're only in that place in the world?

Perhaps they were the first places where the mudokons discovered the animals/where there were most of the animals/where they could get more in touch with their spiritual side...

[Codek]

I thought the scrabanian temples and paramonian temples were located in scrabania and paramonia. Meaning that the places are not temples, but the places have temples. Which suggests you only find paramites in paramonia, and scrabs in scrabania.

Just a thought.

[paramiteabe]

Paramites and scrabs exist all over Mudos in different pockets here and there. Even in the Necrum Deasert. I mean not every place is going to have a scrab or a paramite. They are scattered about the landscape. I am sure there are scarbs living in the Necrum Deasert. Somewhere I mean its a big region the liklyhood is very good here. Isn't that the same deasert with Scrabania just that Scrabania is in a small portion of the same deasert?

[Alcar]

From what I know, the Scrabanian Temple is located in Scrabania, on the outskirts of the arid plateaus and mesas. As clearly seen in the CG transitions, the Scrabanian Temple resides on a single butte or mesa (give or take, as I don't know the precise measurements of the Scrabanian Temple).

The Paramonian Temple seems to be similar. The actual playable region looks to be suspended above the canopy of Paramonia. Thus, I'd expect the massive tree trunks that the Paramonian Temple is made out of to extend the entire height of the canopy.

As for why the Paramites and Scrabs remain solely in those contained areas. Apart from the outside regions being unequipped with the basic needs (food, water, shelter, etc), I believe the Paramites and Scrabs have a sense of spiritualism. They roam those areas for reasons, like the Mudomo and Mundanchee Temples where the Paramites and Scrabs were revered. This spiritualism draws them to stay put.

Alcar...

[Mojo]

I agree with Alcar.

I believe Scrabania and Paramonia are the native lands of Scrabs and Paramites.
The Mudokon races which worshipped these creatures (probably Mudanchee and Mudomo), built the Scrabanian Temple and the Paramonian Temple to honor their totems. One of the things they did to honor them, was to protect them from Glukkons and the like. Also, because of the major enslavement of the Mudokon race, the Temples became abandoned. That's when the Scrabs and Paramites "inherited" the Temples, and made them to be their breeding grounds (hence the many nests that can be seen in both Temples). In exchange, the Scrabs and Paramites protected the last resting place of the Mudokon warriors from the caste that worshipped them.

Now, as for the appearance of Paramites and Scrabs in MO, I believe the particular areas aren't wilderness. In the level with the Scrabs, there Mudokon Scrubs. Believe me, those aren't in the wilderness (They are imprisoned in some sort of cage). In fact, there's a Brewery to Be (Hence the name of the level).
In the level with Paramites, a Bunker can be seen, what indicates that it isn't wilderness either.

Just my 2 cents though...

[Nate]

Well the whole first part of MO was meant to be in the wilderness with industrial complexes (mainly slog huts) here and there. So we were possibly running through untamed wilderness between two huts. OR the paramites might have been trapped there by the glukkons to breed and farm.

The brewery was being built inside an old Mudokon windmill so its possible that that was a previously inhabited area that was abandoned until the Gluk took over. So maybe the scrabs came in the interim. Or maybe the windmill was Mudanchee tribal property and they worshipped the scrabs.

Its possible that the glukkon kept the scrabs there as extra security, not that it did much good.

[Wil]

I rather Scrabs and Paramites didn't have a sense of spirituality, and were simply wild creatures. I don't think they did service to the Mudokons by protecting them, but the Mudokons in fact just took advantage of their voracious temperaments to keep dangers from entering their temples or vaults. Maybe the Guardians were just wild creatures, too, and are just like the Meeches in that their legacy has been virtually completely forgotten.

The Oddworld.com certainly talks about the Scrabanian and Necrum Deserts in the same article, and perhaps they are connected, part of the same region, but geographically there are clear differences. The first contains vegetation and life, while the second is inhabited only by dead plantlife. Not even Elum likes to trek across the Necrum Desert, and he's about as hardy as they come. Scrabania is also host to a whole host of landforms, from boulders to ridges to enormous rock sculptures, which could be remnants of volcanic central feeder pipes, indicating an ancient volcanic region, which would explain the huge amount of erosion that has led to the gaping chasms and towering rock formations; alternatively they could have been artificially created by Mudokons, which again recquires boulders to be present in the local region to begin with - unless they used wells to transport rocks long distrances, lol.

And the Wilderness Region is the name given to the region partially explored in Munch's Oddysee. No part of it isn't wilderness, by name at least. Most of it appears to be inhabited in some way or another, anyway. It's barely a wilderness at all.

[ParamiteRich]

To me paramonia and scrabamania are the homes of paramites and scrabs and the temples are the worshipping grounds for paramites and scrabs. But now the industrial race have came and killed most of them for their products making the paramites and scrabs to live in the temples.

[Alcar]

I rather Scrabs and Paramites didn't have a sense of spirituality, and were simply wild creatures. I don't think they did service to the Mudokons by protecting them, but the Mudokons in fact just took advantage of their voracious temperaments to keep dangers from entering their temples or vaults. Maybe the Guardians were just wild creatures, too, and are just like the Meeches in that their legacy has been virtually completely forgotten.

I understand where your coming from, but how do you explain the Scrabs and Paramites standing on top of the "totems" in the Monsaic Sanctum? If they were wild, I'd expect the Paramites to run off, from fear of the massive crowd of Mudokons, and I'd expect the Scrabs to start fighting ith eachother, or turn to the Mudokons in a bid for a quick feed.

Something is obviously keeping them up there. I believe it's a sense of spiritualism. Or maybe it's the forces that be

Alcar...

[Volsung]

I understand where your coming from, but how do you explain the Scrabs and Paramites standing on top of the "totems" in the Monsaic Sanctum? If they were wild, I'd expect the Paramites to run off, from fear of the massive crowd of Mudokons, and I'd expect the Scrabs to start fighting ith eachother, or turn to the Mudokons in a bid for a quick feed.

Something is obviously keeping them up there. I believe it's a sense of spiritualism. Or maybe it's the forces that be

Possibly, but it looks to me like OI wants the wildlife to not actively participate in any intelligent life-form's...stuff. Outside of society, as it were.

It could be that these scrabs and paramites are domesticated. Also, though I know Alf has said in the past that Abe is the only Mudokon who can possess creatures, Mudokon priests in AO chant and bestow magical wards aplenty. It seems to me that possessing lower-level life would be possible for them, whether or not they could turn a sligs gun away. In short, those Scrabs and Paramites could be possessed or calmed through chanting. In AO if you chanted they would just freak out stock still, like they appear to be doing on the posts.

I like the idea of a spiritual animal, but they're generally the objects of spiritualism, not spiritual themselves.

Edit: or maybe that's what you meant by "the powers that be"....

[Codek]

Alcar, either that or they are mounted statues.

Everyone - I think you should just face the fact that Scrabania is the scrabs homeland, and Paramonia is the paramites homeland. Notice I used the word homeland and not home.

A scrab and a paramite can live wherever there is an eco system that can support it. But there is one requirement for paramites, and that is the ability to make a web. In MO there weren't ANY paramite webs other than just the small few lone ones to help you get up onto platforms. Stark contrast the the paramonian temple.

[Wil]

Death, I'd say the biggest error in the Paramite Run was that the Paramites were awake during daytime. Paramites are nocturnal, and in the temples would have been thrown by the darkness, or possibly kept awake by it being nesting/mating time.

And I doubt they're mounted statues, as they move.

[Codek]

Death, I'd say the biggest error in the Paramite Run was that the Paramites were awake during daytime. Paramites are nocturnal, and in the temples would have been thrown by the darkness, or possibly kept awake by it being nesting/mating time.

And I doubt they're mounted statues, as they move.

I would figure those scrabs are probably not tamed though, they are most likely just spiritually seeing eye to eye with the mudokons, and realise what they must do.

And I did not realise that Paramites were nocturnal. Thankyou for sharing that piece of info with me. Just another example of how terrible the continuity was in MO.

[Nate]

Death, I'd say the biggest error in the Paramite Run was that the Paramites were awake during daytime. Paramites are nocturnal, and in the temples would have been thrown by the darkness, or possibly kept awake by it being nesting/mating time.

Where did you get that info? Some of the Paramonian temple levels seem to be wel lit enough to be daytime.

Oh and Death seems to be confused with the huge statues in the backgrounds of the Monsaic Lines. We're talking about the Scrabs and Paramites in the temple in the closing FMV of AO

[Alcar]

I thought it was known fact that Paramites were nocturnal. In early version of Munch's Oddysee, the Paramites only moved at night, which is further proof. As for the Paramonian Temple, I'd say it was still dark enough, even though it was lighter, to be considered night.

Alcar...

[Mojo]

Alcar, either that or they are mounted statues.

Everyone - I think you should just face the fact that Scrabania is the scrabs homeland, and Paramonia is the paramites homeland. Notice I used the word homeland and not home.

A scrab and a paramite can live wherever there is an eco system that can support it. But there is one requirement for paramites, and that is the ability to make a web. In MO there weren't ANY paramite webs other than just the small few lone ones to help you get up onto platforms. Stark contrast the the paramonian temple.

I believe he ment the ones you see when you finish AO. You know, the Scrab and the Paramite who are standing on some sort of podium, with Bigface and Abe in between them...

[Alcar]

Oh my, I've just realised something. In Abe's Oddysee, if you recall the CG movies played just after you left Monsaic Lines into either Paramonia or Scrabania, then you'll notice that:

1. The Paramites are moving by day, not night
2. The Scrabs seem to be obeying an Alpha Scrab, and they do not fight with eachother

Considering that it was a flashback of how things were in Oddworld's past, when the Magog Cartel wasn't causing havoc, we can safely assume this is how they are in the wild. Therefore, are Paramites really nocturnal?

Alcar...

[Codek]

I think it has always been established that Scrabs and Paramites obey the muds because they treat them with respect. The Scrabs and Paramites that abe experiences, are creatures that have adapted to become aggressive toward everyone because of the glukkons.

Paramites probably aren't nocturnal, just more active during the night, and fairly sluggish/inactive during the day. I don't doubt that the paramites of AO and AE live in the darkness because it's safer for them.

[Alcar]

I think it has always been established that Scrabs and Paramites obey the muds because they treat them with respect. The Scrabs and Paramites that abe experiences, are creatures that have adapted to become aggressive toward everyone because of the glukkons.

Oh, there were no Mudokons in these flashbacks. They were completely alone, when the Magog Cartel wasn't even in existance. Or did you mean the age-old Mudokons that we suspect would have lived in Paramonia / Scrabania?

Alcar...

[Codek]

I mean the mudokons that are near the scrabs and paramites in the beginning video of AE. The ones that aren't being savaged by them.

[Mojo]

At the Monsiac Sanctum?

I understand where your coming from, but how do you explain the Scrabs and Paramites standing on top of the "totems" in the Monsaic Sanctum? If they were wild, I'd expect the Paramites to run off, from fear of the massive crowd of Mudokons, and I'd expect the Scrabs to start fighting ith eachother, or turn to the Mudokons in a bid for a quick feed.

Isn't that what he said???