So disappointed in the new Oddworld!

eponine · #1 06-22-2003, 07:21 PM

We just finished watching the X-Factor on Discovery Channel and all I can say is how disappointed I am with the new Oddworld. What did they do? Oddworld isn't about first personal shooting Western characters! It's about Abe and puzzle solving.

I was a complete fan of Munch's Oddysee and was so looking forward to the next in the series. Now, I am loathing the decision makers for the new one. What did you do?

My faith in Xbox and Oddworld is destroyed. It's unfortunate that they feel that they need to appeal to the first personal Halo shooters. Munch's Oddysee rocked and though the audience may not be as large as Halo, the game was hysterical and I enjoyed every moment. Munch in a wheelchair and Abe with his bodily sounds made the game interesting.

Too bad they crossed over to the "other side". My craving for the new Oddworld is lost.

Oh well.

***Xavier*** · #2 06-22-2003, 07:31 PM

well my faith is reborn... it looks like a lot better the much and back in the spirit of the Abe games
anyway they know what not to do now

Abeguy · #3 06-22-2003, 07:54 PM

:

Originally posted by Xavier
well my faith is reborn... it looks like a lot better the much and back in the spirit of the Abe games
anyway they know what not to do now

yes i agree with Xav on this one
and you slurg shouldn't be writing stuff like this. it makes OW look bad

Jacob · #4 06-22-2003, 08:45 PM

:

I was a complete fan of Munch's Oddysee

You're the first one to say this. Which thus means your taste in games is, well, crap...

:

(1)and you slurg shouldn't be writing stuff like this. (2)it makes OW look bad

(1) - So? Its his/hers opinion...

(2) - I'm sure they'd rather have truthfulness that helps them than lies that hinder them...

paramiteabe · #5 06-23-2003, 03:06 AM

Eponine you will be surprise that almost all of us includeing myself here are really excited about Steef and you should too. Now I understand you want to see Abe and Munch. But for now give those two characters a rest. Oddworld is more than qurky bodely sounds, saveing your people and such. Oh nonono! it is a liveing biosphere of deverse cultures and life all in the mind of Lorne Lanning. When AO came out and I found out about the quintology and learned about Oddworld, I knew that there will be different stories with there own delemas in them and most importantly unlikely characters like Abe and Munch. Abe and Munches destanys are sort of similar now we get to Steef we are now seeing a whole new light of Oddworld. We will see Abe an Munch again in ME. But Now we are seeing Steef's story which makes me wounder since this game is concurrent with the quintology are we going to see more of these kind of Oddworld side games? In a way its like overlapping different Oddworld games. Thats cool!

OANST · #6 06-23-2003, 03:08 AM

Again. Oddworld is an enormous world with all kinds of situations to get in to. It would not feel as fresh or real if they kept making the same game.

paramiteabe · #7 06-23-2003, 03:19 AM

Yea because at one time Munch was going to be like Steef but it became virtually a cartoon. Granted Munch was great But Steef will be hundreds of times better than Munch because Lanning was not at all satisfied with Munch. He wanted to do so much more but they couldn't. Now he can and that should be exciteing.

My faith too has been rekindled Long live Steef and the future of Oddworld an exciting future I must say.

oddguy · #8 06-23-2003, 08:10 AM

You could see the excitement on Lorne's face when he talked about Steef, and that just made me happy to see that he has fun making games for us to play, unlike the weirdos at "Crimson Sky".

And I really don't think it's even possible for Oddworld to become like everything else, Oddworld is unique and I know it's gonna stay that way. A true Oddworld fan should allready know that.

***Alcar*** · #9 06-23-2003, 08:33 AM

This is exactly like Zelda: The Wind Waker. Everyone complained that the cartoony styled new look was crap. However, when the game came out I think most people began to like it.

What makes this similar, is that the true fans of Zelda said that Miyamoto knew what he wanted to do, and that he wouldn't do anything to sabotage the game.

This is similar to Oddworld. Lorne knows exactly what he is doing. And for Lorne to admit the faults in Munch's Oddysee is a huge relief for myself and a lot of the members here.

Lorne knows what is best, and he has all the time in the world to do it. Well, over a year

Alcar...

***Wil*** · #10 06-23-2003, 02:51 PM

Wow, in the very same topic we have complete ends of the spectrum - we have a person dissing the new game beyond all proportion, and we have the same blind faith I've seen steadily growing since discussion of Munch's Oddysee.

:

Oddworld is unique and I know it's gonna stay that way.

:

almost all of us really excited about Steef and you should too

OWI is a company, not a religion. You can't just say 'oh, I believe it's going to be good' or 'yeah, of course it's going to always be great' because unfortunately for those that haven't actually fathomed this yet, companies, franchises and series can actually go downhill and 'jump the shark'. Yes, it is nice to see how excited Lorne is about this, but that's no reason for us all follow suit. If you like what we've seen of Steef so far and think that's you're going to enjoy it, then great, but don't for an instant try and say that Oddworld will live on forever, because I'm sure some people were proclaiming that while they were hearing about all the delights and wonders Munch's Oddysee would contain. I won't tell you to pack it up, but I will say I'm disgusted by it, and I hope you can at least try to take a step back and look at what uncalled for faith you're putting into the future.

As for saying somebody should be excited about Steef when it is indeed a radical departure from the Oddworld we're used to is absolutely dreadful. We should be encouraging people to take different perspectives, not forcing them to think what we think.

:

A true Oddworld fan should allready know that.

Oh god, this just sickens me. What are we going to have next, a 'Who's the biggest Oddworld fan?' topic? If you think the definition of a 'true fan' is one that backs up their fandom beyond all sensible reasoning, then you're completely and utterly wrong. Wouldn't a proper fan be more encouraged to put forward his opinions so that the series he is following can realise they're straying and make things better again? That's what I'm doing, and that's what Eponine is doing. We don't want to see Oddworld go down the pan, so as fans it's our duty to help Oddworld, not just hang on their every word like a dog to its master.

As for Eponine, I can't try to force you to retract your statement like the others seem to have, because I can see utterly the viewpoint you have. Except liking Munch's Oddysee, that just bemuses me - there was no puzzle-solving, no proper use of Gamespeak, both of which could be said to be integral parts of Oddworld's nature. I digress, though. I don't think Lorne wanted to leech off the popularity of FPS, although I wouldn't put it beyond anyone. The way I see it, Lorne wanted to make a game with a Western flare, which he clearly has done. Having developed characters and a story, the question they probably asked themselves was how the heck would they get Steef to get past his enemies. Stealth for a creature/character of his nature just wouldn't fit, and sheer brute force would turn the game partly into just another beat 'em up. Steef's crossbow, I think, suits the style of both Steef and the new game, and clearly OWI/Lorne decided the only real way to involve it in gameplay was to make elements of FPS. I know they didn't do that in Munch's Oddysee, but then combat in Munch's Oddysee sucked.

:

I think most people began to like it.

Not over here, they didn't.

Now I'll leave you to all to fume, and hopefully reflect wisely.

Jacob · #11 06-23-2003, 03:12 PM

I agree with Max, but i'm gonna be abit less tactful...

Stop being freaks. Its a game. You're talking about it as if its some kind of religion, calm down. PA, you are by far the worst and thus this is your first warning. If you carry on i will have to suspend you from the forums so you can just think about your actions and realise your wrongness.

Others, if you're going to masturbate over something do it over something worthy and not a game...

GrigtheSlig · #12 06-23-2003, 03:47 PM

I think that if Oddworld kept doing the whole underdog thing that people would get tired of it eventually. I think that a new character who was never a slave for a meat company and was never a test dummy for the vykkers is exactly what oddworld needs.

Stay odd!

***Wil*** · #13 06-23-2003, 04:01 PM

We don't know that Steef hasn't been being 'affected' by the Vykkers. In the X-Factor video, when Lorne is explaining to Ed Fries about the changing Steef appearance, he did talk about doing testing on the horns, although whether he means with the design and 3D construction or in the story, I can't quite tell. With Vykkers about, it's difficult to be sure.

Besides, Steef has to disguise himself somehow.

Jacob · #14 06-23-2003, 05:58 PM

I think it'd be interesting for Steef to have a multiple personality disorder...

***Xavier*** · #15 06-23-2003, 06:02 PM

:

Originally posted by Jacob
I think it'd be interesting for Steef to have a multiple personality disorder...

that can be intresting, but I don't see how it could fit in the story

MojoMan220 · #16 06-23-2003, 06:57 PM

:

Originally posted by eponine
We just finished watching the X-Factor on Discovery Channel and all I can say is how disappointed I am with the new Oddworld. What did they do? Oddworld isn't about first personal shooting Western characters! It's about Abe and puzzle solving.

I was a complete fan of Munch's Oddysee and was so looking forward to the next in the series. Now, I am loathing the decision makers for the new one. What did you do?

My faith in Xbox and Oddworld is destroyed. It's unfortunate that they feel that they need to appeal to the first personal Halo shooters. Munch's Oddysee rocked and though the audience may not be as large as Halo, the game was hysterical and I enjoyed every moment. Munch in a wheelchair and Abe with his bodily sounds made the game interesting.

Too bad they crossed over to the "other side". My craving for the new Oddworld is lost.

Oh well.

I think perhaps you were mostly put-off by the in-game footage that was shown, and by the comments Ed Fries made.

The footage shown was very early, animation, lighting, etc. was not yet fine tuned. The game will most definitely become more in touch with Oddworld as the production progresses. You might get a better idea what the game will look like by checking out the FMV's, but with obviously less detailed graphics. Oddworld is not becoming an FPS, only when Steef takes out his crossbow will it go to that view.

Ed Fries over-simplified many of the games aspects, calling it a western FPS. Steef and the town are only based off of western culture, not mirror images. A lot of what Ed said was only speculation, we don't know if they are actually leaving puzzles behind.

Also, many of the characters and ideas are going to change, and probably some already have. Everything that was shown was a year old, so I wouldn't expect to see the same today.

By the way Max, Munch's Oddysee was not a bad game in general to lots of people, EGM gave it Xbox game of the year, OXM gave it a 9.0, Tech TV gave it five stars, etc. Munch's Oddysee was much more of a bad game in the Oddworld series. Like Lorne said, it got a lot of acclaim and won many awards, but it wasn't up to Oddworld's standards (dissapointing many fans). It has to do with opinion, so I don't understand why you find it hard to believe that people like it.

We don't have much to go by, I think it's a little too early to be so overly critical.

***Wil*** · #17 06-23-2003, 07:07 PM

You don't need to tell me Munch's Oddysee was a good game, because I already know it is. It's just not a very good Oddworld game. And for overly critical, I agree, but I think there are too many people being overly supportive.

***Xavier*** · #18 06-23-2003, 07:15 PM

I think that if we have to critic the game or what we have seen, we have to do it right now, so OWI knows what we like and what we don't and can maybe change the game a bit in a better dirrection

so give your oppinions now

oddguy · #19 06-23-2003, 09:39 PM

Some people say that others are treating Oddworld like a religion when the people making accusations are posting huge posts on the topic and ranting about it. Saying "It's just a game", makes me come to the conclusion that these people pointing fingers are hiding their own pain about what they wanted the new Oddworld to be. I see someone who loved the game and got their heart broken by the new footage they saw. Someone who thought it was "just a game" wouldn't care and probably wouldn't be on Oddworld Forums telling everyone what they think.

If I thought Oddworld was a religion I would be worshiping the almighty raisin. I just see Oddworld as creative ideas manifested in video games. Being an Oddworld fan, I keep my mind open to what the Quintology will bring. Oddworld is a growing changing story; the story is simply advancing. Those with closed minds just want the same thing over and over. If that's what you want, I suggest you watch teletubies, or quit whinning and get over it. You said it was just a game, didn't you Max?

OANST · #20 06-23-2003, 10:37 PM

Max? Jacob? You guys okay? I admit that paramite was acting a little arrogant earlier but I don't think he meant anything by it. You guys gotta calm down a little bit. Also I don't see OI as just a company. They are artists. Same as musicians they need to make money but they bring us stories that stem from beautifull ideals that can be translated into modern life. Their art is both vital and important. I do agree that they have made mistakes but the fact is that they realise that they made mistakes and admitted to it. The reason that people are so optimistic about what is to come is because of the message and level of integrity delivered by these people. I do not wish to deify them but I do believe that what they are doing is worthy of my respect and admiration. Please don't construe this as an attack on you. You are entitled to your opinion. I am just stating mine.

OANST · #21 06-23-2003, 10:39 PM

I didn't even see oddguys post. sorry about that.

oddguy · #22 06-24-2003, 01:26 AM

I'm not upset with you, old and not so tasty. I was offended by Max the Mug's crude remark. I just had to say something. I'm not usually one to get into a confrontation like that and I'll try to keep the Oddworld Forums more friendly for now on. Thanks.

-Oddguy

paramiteabe · #23 06-24-2003, 02:18 AM

For what ever I said I am sorry I dident mean it in that sort of context. All I was trying to get across was a positive feeling towards the next game. I wasn't trying to control anybody. I know when I said "you should be excited too." ment in the way of just assurance of Steef thats all. If nobody likes the game then nobody likes the game. theres nothing wrong with that. All I am saying is give this Oddworld a chance and we will just have to wait. I am sorry for being overly critical or anything here.

Dequibenzo · #24 06-24-2003, 02:46 AM

Good point, PA. I for one am trying to stay optimistic but realistic about this new development. Basically all we know is that it is going to be different. Whether that's a boon or a bane, only time will tell.
Now, there is one thing I'm a little concerned about and I don't think we've touched on it yet. I'm a film student myself, and the thing that made me love Munch (yes, you heard right) was the absolutely incredible cinematics. Abe's games had amazing movies for playstation, but Munch's are absolutely amazing. For a game that was apparently such a dissapointment, Lorne and company obviously put a LOT of work into what I still believe to be the most impressive animation I've ever seen in a video game, and easily in the top twenty for all mediums. Now, we've all seen the scraps of the "chasing over the log" cinematic from Steef, his little Clint-y line of rendered dialogue, and some unfinished running sequence, and I must say, I'm once again impressed. But did you also catch Senor Lanning's scphiel about an oddworld paradigm shift? About moving the story out of cinematics and into the game? I don't know shooters from shin-ola when it comes to gameplay, but if OWI really IS monitoring our opinions for guidance, let me make something clear- DO NOT DITCH THE MOVIES, PEOPLE! If anything, I could go for more of 'em- I want to see more lucious backgrounds, carefully researched musculatures and movements, brilliant color schemes, streamlined motion effects, the list goes on and on. I forked out almost three hundred bucks for an X-box just a week after I first saw Munch. Why? "Under the knife". THAT'S why. Maybe I'm alone on this, but the idea of moving away from cinematics in Oddworld games is disconcerting.

paramiteabe · #25 06-24-2003, 03:25 AM

I know what your saying because your right. I too am going into film and illustraition and the stuff that we seen in Munch was incrediable in the films. We tend to neglect the films of the games. thats one of the milestones of Oddworld. The question here is what do you want the artists to create for you to be satisfied? Do you even realise what kind of work is envolved in putting in the time and effort to create your ideas and worlds on paper and then later get rejected and then have to go back and figure out an entirely new design, or color scheme, or something more exciteing professionaly? Ya know I don't understand when you Max or Jacob are saying that I am treating this as a religion because first of all this is going to be my profession and secondly I have a pashion in this sort of stuff. And since I am so pashonite about this media then I like to encourage it to others by saying stuff like "You should enjoy it too." I am not forceing anything onto anybody. Your opinion is your opinion there is nothing wrong with that, but why not encourage? If he doesn't like it he doesn't like I don't care he can like what ever he wants. But there is nothing wrong with assureing someone about things and thats where my Optimistic behavior comes into play.

And yes I am a very optimistic and I know that will get me places that otherwise I couldn't dream of being part of. Being Optimistic is a very good trait to have because you compansate for what you got and you look to a brighter future. Granted its blind faith but if you really and truely want it, it will happen.

Dequibenzo · #26 06-24-2003, 04:11 AM

Another good point, Parry (Boy, do I sound facecious. Yes, sir. Oh, yes, very nice, mm hmm, should I check for pollups while I'm up there? Oh well.)
As for what I want from oddworld- more eye candy, man! The plot in Munch was kind of weak and the character development was only hinted at, but it looked GORGEOUS. I admit that normally that isn't enough, but there is a point when visual style really can make up for deficiancies in the other, usually more important categories. And it's not like the writing is absolutely attrocious, especially considering that it is a video game we're talking about. Now, if they want to put some truely stunning cinematography and really take time to develop a main character in Steef, both of which are BIG aspects of good westerns (See Dead Man with Johnny Depp), then, hey, more power to the Odds. If they give us a tour de force that's both visually stunning and emotionally stimulating then congratulations are in order. But I won't be holding my breath.
In short, I want Oddworld to drop my jaw again.
And yes, I know what it's like to work your ass off on a project just to have it collapse for you to rebuild on. I believe it's called the "creative process".

Al the Vykker · #27 06-24-2003, 04:13 AM

:

Originally posted by MojoMan220
I think perhaps you were mostly put-off by the in-game footage that was shown, and by the comments Ed Fries made.

The footage shown was very early, animation, lighting, etc. was not yet fine tuned. The game will most definitely become more in touch with Oddworld as the production progresses. You might get a better idea what the game will look like by checking out the FMV's, but with obviously less detailed graphics. Oddworld is not becoming an FPS, only when Steef takes out his crossbow will it go to that view.

Ed Fries over-simplified many of the games aspects, calling it a western FPS. Steef and the town are only based off of western culture, not mirror images. A lot of what Ed said was only speculation, we don't know if they are actually leaving puzzles behind.

Also, many of the characters and ideas are going to change, and probably some already have. Everything that was shown was a year old, so I wouldn't expect to see the same today.

By the way Max, Munch's Oddysee was not a bad game in general to lots of people, EGM gave it Xbox game of the year, OXM gave it a 9.0, Tech TV gave it five stars, etc. Munch's Oddysee was much more of a bad game in the Oddworld series. Like Lorne said, it got a lot of acclaim and won many awards, but it wasn't up to Oddworld's standards (dissapointing many fans). It has to do with opinion, so I don't understand why you find it hard to believe that people like it.

We don't have much to go by, I think it's a little too early to be so overly critical.

Not to be rude or anything, but Mojo, EGM gave Halo game of the year out of all systems, game of the month for all systems, and game of the year xbox, plus platinum editors choice award. and straight 10.0. I also recommend anyone who wishes to see all game awards for xbox games, head over to xbox.com for the full list of hall of fame for xbox.

Munchs oddysee still got editors gold choice award, and 9.0 from EGM though. Just thought I correct you on that though.

But yes, I did like MO, but of course it wasnt my favorite oddworld game, I still like AE and AO the best.

As for right now, I cant really say whether I really know my opinion yet on the new game. I am excited to be finding out new stuff, or seeing new stuff. But I want to see where the game is right now.

oddguy · #28 06-24-2003, 04:17 AM

I totally agree with Dequibenzo and paramiteabe.
I'm also interested in film and am planning on becoming a writer/directer. I'm totaly facinated with Oddworld and all its creative ideas. You could say that Oddworld has inspired me. I started drawing sligs and then moved on to my own charaters. I'm writing/illistrating a novel. My plan is to win everyones hearts with my book so they beg me to make a movie. After making a movie a video game was next in my plan. You see, I want to make a video game with a sort of "making of" option.

I would love to see more movies in the Oddworld games, but Lorne said they had to chop up their movies so much because the test gamers got bored. That makes me feel like people like us would only enjoy a "making of" option in games.

paramiteabe · #29 06-24-2003, 11:38 AM

Its the time constraits the companies put on Production because I know how it works. What they do is that first they must have an idea then they have to write all of it out, next comes my favorite part they conceive what they are doing. This involves research which is pretty much an excuse to surf the web then they create the conceptual story boards and digital matt paintings and ususally there is over hundred story boards. And the Matt Paintings can take up to a year to create They have to be reviewd and then they have to go through redisigning it to specification and at the same time you got things called Mocketts being formed which are clay models and then the computer Animation going on which invoves critical problem solveing skills with X, Y, Z axises to be specific. That is a general overview of what happens. And there are a lot of steps I missed like sound, lighting effects, visual effects, budgeting for it and many more fun things.

Before it was just the visual in the films which I think thats what they were concentraiting on more so then the gameplay when they made the switch. They wanted to see what the X-Box could do through visual media or films. So they probabaly half assed the gameplay. But they won't do that again and they even said so because now they know what the X-Box is capable of. So they can concentrait in both medias bringing us something we have never seen before in a video game.

MojoMan220 · #30 06-24-2003, 12:42 PM

:

Originally posted by Al the Vykker
Not to be rude or anything, but Mojo, EGM gave Halo game of the year out of all systems, game of the month for all systems, and game of the year xbox, plus platinum editors choice award. and straight 10.0. I also recommend anyone who wishes to see all game awards for xbox games, head over to xbox.com for the full list of hall of fame for xbox.

Munchs oddysee still got editors gold choice award, and 9.0 from EGM though. Just thought I correct you on that though.

But yes, I did like MO, but of course it wasnt my favorite oddworld game, I still like AE and AO the best.

As for right now, I cant really say whether I really know my opinion yet on the new game. I am excited to be finding out new stuff, or seeing new stuff. But I want to see where the game is right now.

Exact article from EGM:

We like it 'cause: What? Are we nuts? Giving the Xbox's top award to a game starring a one flippered critter and a stich-mouthed hero in a loin cloth? That's right Oddworld is that good. Plus we couldn't give it to Halo 'cause...well, you'll find out why later.