Oddworld - Use Original Pre Rendered Assets in Real Time?

[Dynarec]

I can't think of a better title for the post but how did Oddworld Inhabitants create the original games? They pre-rendered every screen and animation to give it that wonderful realistic look and feel because the hardware back in the day lacked the capability. So why not use the original "3D" assets and animations in the new games, to give the games the original look and feel but be better because your applying them in an actual 3D engine than pre rendering them? I like New 'n Tasty but it's nothing like the originals. The sounds were way better in the originals too. Scrabs and Paramites are not alien and scary anymore.

[Lord Vhazen]

I can't think of a better title for the post but how did Oddworld Inhabitants create the original games? They pre-rendered every screen and animation to give it that wonderful realistic look and feel because the hardware back in the day lacked the capability. So why not use the original "3D" assets and animations in the new games, to give the games the original look and feel but be better because your applying them in an actual 3D engine than pre rendering them? I like New 'n Tasty but it's nothing like the originals. The sounds were way better in the originals too. Scrabs and Paramites are not alien and scary anymore.

I think you're misunderstanding the technology involved.... Oddworld was never really made with 3D graphics - not the originals. They were 2D sprites. The backgrounds may have possibly been made in some kind of 3D graphic software, but then they just took still images of it like every other game of the time.

I don't think there would have been much point using the original assets used even if they could be recovered because they're just too old, and made with too primitive of technology compared to today's work.

New'n'Tasty's only real fault was that JAW took the cheap way out in many ways by employing bloom as literally its only source of light, and they made many areas way too bright and happy which went against the original game's art style. They had to make new assets for the actual character models and the world though for the sake of being a modern game. I don't think it was actually /possible/ for them to do an HD revision of the game using assets that old.

The only alternative would have been to have made new, better and modern looking sprites and still images which would have been counter intuitive for what New'n'Tasty was supposed to be. That would have been even lazier. It would have made the game feel like a mobile title.

[Littleleeroy]

I think you're misunderstanding the technology involved.... Oddworld was never really made with 3D graphics - not the originals. They were 2D sprites. The backgrounds may have possibly been made in some kind of 3D graphic software, but then they just took still images of it like every other game of the time.

I think Dynarec understands that they made 3D models for all the backgrounds and entities then converted them to 2D sprites so they could be run on the technology of the time. He's asking why they don't use those initial models in the new game as they are of higher quality than sprites.

There are two reasons. The first being that they don't have complete access to the original game assets, some were lost I believe. Secondly, the models would not actually be very detailed for today's standards and when using modern engines and writing for modern consoles it is easier overall to recreate the models and game assets, based off those original ones. (Which is basically what Lord Vhazen said.)

EDIT: There is also the case that we tend to remember those original games having better sounds and graphics than they did. If you wanted to use those assets in a new game they would be out of place and of a lower quality than needed (hence the need to recreate them.)

[kjjcarpenter]

There is also the case that we tend to remember those original games having better sounds and graphics than they did. If you wanted to use those assets in a new game they would be out of place and of a lower quality than needed (hence the need to recreate them.)

For example, Abe is literally blue in AO/AE, which was to help him stand out against the background and other mudokons.



NnT has him look far more appropriate.

[Manco]

I remember reading somewhere that the original character models were made as NURBS, which also would not be easy to work with for a game engine. I don’t know how good file compatibility is in the 3D modeling world, but I doubt NURBS files from the 1990s will be easy to open and convert these days, and modern 3D workflows are very different now anyway.

As for the backgrounds, those are actually matte paintings more often than not, sometimes with 3D assets combined but not always. There would be no way to cleanly include those in a modern realtime engine.

[Havoc]

The original models were used in New 'n' Tasty, which goes to show off how old and dated they actually are. Brand new models are being made for Soulstorm and they look amazing.

[FrustratedAssassin]

The original models were used in New 'n' Tasty, which goes to show off how old and dated they actually are. Brand new models are being made for Soulstorm and they look amazing.

That's literally not true, as people here and OWI/JAW themselves stated multiple times.

[Varrok]

Lol @ Havoc, for not paying attention.

[kjjcarpenter]

As for the backgrounds, those are actually matte paintings more often than not, sometimes with 3D assets combined ...

Like the windmill!

You all know what I'm talking about.

[Nepsotic]

That windmill was great.

[OWI_Alex]

The original models were used in New 'n' Tasty, which goes to show off how old and dated they actually are.

What?

Brand new models are being made for Soulstorm and they look amazing.

Woo.

[Nepsotic]

Take Havoc's posts with a grain of salt

[Nate]

I remember reading somewhere that the original character models were made as NURBS, which also would not be easy to work with for a game engine.

Only some things were made with NURBs. I recall that the Ratz were modelled with NURBs and the dev article about it pointed out that that was unusual. Also, I seem to recall that the design was done in NURBs, but they were converted to polygons before being used.

[Fischkopf]

I think I remember a dev saying the Abe model in NnT was not converted from the original Abe model (which they had access to), it was a recreation based on the original model.

However, the original models for Abe and all the other characters from Oddysee still have a much higher poly count than the ones used in New N Tasty, as you can easily tell by looking at some high-resolution promotional screenshots. I think hardware still isn't powerful enough to use such detailed models in a real-time situation. I think it would be interesting to know the actual polygon count on both the original and the New N Tasty models.

[Havoc]

That's literally not true, as people here and OWI/JAW themselves stated multiple times.

Huh. I thought I read them stating the exact opposite.

[Nate]

Huh. I thought I read them stating the exact opposite.

They stated the exact opposite at first, but then later found that they weren't usable.

[Littleleeroy]

As for the backgrounds, those are actually matte paintings more often than not, sometimes with 3D assets combined but not always. There would be no way to cleanly include those in a modern realtime engine.

What about when Abe goes through a door and the camera follows him (like in the Paramonian Temple)? Those were all in 3D and therefore it makes sense that the backgrounds surrounding those transitions were created as 3D models as well. I didn't think any of the backgrounds were matte paintings.

They used that same technique as the character models as it gave the game a much more life like feel while still running on the technology of the time (as they rendered the backgrounds as images.)

[Xavier]

What about when Abe goes through a door and the camera follows him (like in the Paramonian Temple)? Those were all in 3D and therefore it makes sense that the backgrounds surrounding those transitions were created as 3D models as well. I didn't think any of the backgrounds were matte paintings.

They used that same technique as the character models as it gave the game a much more life like feel while still running on the technology of the time (as they rendered the backgrounds as images.)

Manco's point is still correct. You don't need to make all the backgrounds in 3D if you are only going to do 3D transiction effects in a few areas.

[Littleleeroy]

That's a fair point but do we know for sure if they actually did that or is it just speculation?
They all look like pre-rendered 3D backgrounds to me.

[Nate]

Some were pre-rendered and some were matte paintings. That's how CG works.