WHY???!!!

General Drippik · #1 12-08-2001, 04:13 AM

WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE HATE AE???? IT IS TEN MILLION TIMES BETTER THAN AO!!! GRRR!!

***Alcar*** · #2 12-08-2001, 04:15 AM

Hang on, AE is way better and improved than AO.

Well thats what i think.

Better controls, gamespeak, level layout, storyline

abe333 · #3 12-08-2001, 06:27 AM

ao is better because the original ideas are in it!!! such as the sligs strip eye instead of the 2 bars for eyes in ae. the muds hands have 3 fingers! in ae they have 4!?

All the original and correct ideas were put in it!

General Drippik · #4 12-08-2001, 08:05 AM

SO? I think the slig eyes in AE are heaps better! And the fingers don't make much difference.

Rich · #5 12-08-2001, 10:01 AM

For those who don't know:

The fingers were changed because in Japan(or China, I can't remember) It is an offence to show something with four fingers so OWI HAD to change it, they didn't do it because they wanted to.

Oh and General Drip's is right, AE is loads better than AO!

Danny · #6 12-08-2001, 10:45 AM

I'm sorry, but I don't agree. AE wasn't crap, but it just lacked the black humour of the original. The original was a clear parody of the real world, and the satire was almost tangible. It seemed real. The whole game had a much deeped feel to it. The AE came along, and brought with it some pathetic humour, and none of the epic undertones of AO.

That is my opinion. I am not asking you to agree with me, and there is no reason for Angry Message Icons...

[ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: Rettick ]

Gluk Schmuck · #7 12-08-2001, 01:38 PM

:

Originally posted by Rich The Intern:
The fingers were changed because in Japan(or China, I can't remember) It is an offence to show something with four fingers so OWI HAD to change it, they didn't do it because they wanted to.

No, it's an offence to have things with 4 digits and not pay HUGE amounts of money. That's called extortion.

Cool Paramite · #8 12-08-2001, 02:38 PM

About the fingers: (quote from Dear Alf)

:

Well, it's a long story that needs to be told. So here it is... Japan has a strict discriminating policy against any simulated characters entering their country with four fingers. Historically, Japan has had a subclass of meat packing workers that were typically looked down upon in their society. In later days, the blatant displaying of a four fingered hand gesture, intentionally directed at another, came to mean that you were calling them a member of the meat packing sub class. Which, we understand, was not at all a compliment.

It appears that the four finger connection with the meat packing class was due to work related accidents, but was so frequent that it came to symbolically represent the sub class. It seems as though this is a part of the Japanese history that some groups within Japan would like to see forgotten. Therefore, it is at great risk that you publish four fingered characters in Japan, as you may very likely end up in legal battles with a vociferous pressure group. This group claims that this type of representation is equivalent to and as degrading as the yellow star forced to be worn on Jews by the Nazi's during the Second World War.That is, it's offensive and degrading unless they can extort enough money out of you. Then it's all okay. Case in point: We were told that the Walt Disney Corporation is charged five million dollars a year by this group so that Mickey Mouse may live in Japan and retain his original four fingered design. Otherwise, old Mickey would need to see a surgeon and have something done about that insulting forth finger.

The moral of this story is... if you want to pay, then it's ok. If you don't want to pay, then it's a horrible insult to our culture. In other parts of the world we have a word for these types of two-faced tactics. We call it extortion. If it is truly offensive and degrading, then don't allow it at all. But to allow it for a price... is to belittle the case altogether. It suggests that the real truth behind these groups is that they are using the darker moments in their own cultures' history as an excuse to coerce money out of content providers.

Well, being that this is Oddworld, we felt that this seemed like a perfect addition to the Abe story. We thought it was ironically perfect that he was being discriminated against for being who he was. As the message came from Japan, "They don't like his kind here, with the sincere suggestion," Just chop off one of his fingers cause you don't have the money to pay up..." caused us to feel that we indeed needed to allow Abe to go through the suffering that goes along with being a poor slob at the bottom of the Food chain. Yup, we chopped off his finger so that the Japanese wouldn't get offended (or paid). He didn't like it one bit, but due to the fact that their ain't much he can do about it... we decided that he could donate his finger rather than us donating five million dollars. Such is life in Japan when you're a four-fingered meat packing worker.
And that is how Abe lost his finger in Japan. He's still pretty pissed off about it, but we convinced him that with the amount of games sold in Japan, he still might be able to get his message through to their culture someday. As a true believer in his cause, he felt that the sacrifice of a finger was but a small price to pay in hoping to shed some light on discriminations and injustices the world over.

AND MY OPINION: AE is over 120000000000000000 times better then AO. AO is good, has good gameplay and movies and story and a dark, mystical style.....

AE HAS IT ALL BUT THEN EVEN BETTER! Necrum and Mudomo Vaults are among my favorite locations. The mystical look and feel of it are fantastic!

AND AE HAS MORE HUMOUR!

Lantra · #9 12-08-2001, 04:22 PM

ao is better beacsues it has more depth it is not so silly and the among other things abes voice is better not to mention the fact that it is way esier then ao i beat it in like 2 days. so ao is better because it is!

[ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: Lantra ]

Sl'askia · #10 12-08-2001, 04:22 PM

Notice they didn't say anything bout the sligs...who have 4 fingers. I guess they let them slide because they are the 'bad guys'

General Drippik · #11 12-09-2001, 01:02 AM

Now I get it... Some people like COMEDY!! (AE) While others like BLACKNESS, MYSTERY AND HORROR!! (AO) *slaps self over the head* So many people like AE because it is "funnier" than AO. Others like AO because it has a more mystical feel to it. GOT IT!!

[ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: General Drippik ]

Cool Paramite · #12 12-09-2001, 04:20 AM

I think AE has the same dark, mystical feel as AO + humour.

abe22 · #13 12-09-2001, 06:02 AM

I think AO is better then AE it had more wilderness but on the other hand ae did have more factory bits Oh I cant decide now they're both sooooo good

glukkon_daniel · #14 12-09-2001, 12:07 PM

AE is longer and funner than AO. If you're looking for a game with a better story, get AO (even tthough both the stories are good, AO's is a tad better). If you're looking for a game with better gameplay, get AE. It's just so much more fun.

Eibu · #15 12-09-2001, 02:17 PM

If by "epic" you mean mysterious and dark then sure, but in my opinion "epic" is by scale and I thought Exoddus was more broad than Oddysee.

However I love both games nearly equally (Exoddus a little more, and probably for the same reasons most hate it).

I must admit Oddysee was MUCH harder than Exoddus...so hard I can barely get through it. (I guess I suck)

SeaRex · #16 12-09-2001, 02:29 PM

Whoa! That I can see how the 4 finger thing can be offensive! Especially the fact that the muds worked in a meat packing factories! ... thats just not cool.

:

Originally posted by Eibu:
However I love both games nearly equally (Exoddus a little more, and probably for the same reasons most hate it).
I must admit Oddysee was MUCH harder than Exoddus...so hard I can barely get through it. (I guess I suck)

Exactly.

Melvin:squeeking paramite · #17 12-09-2001, 02:44 PM

I have to say I like AO better for several reasons... (though AE was a great game)
1:More original. It started the whole Oddworld quintology, and introduced Abe.
2:Like many have said, it had a more mystical and dark feel to it... Personally, I like dark humor more than slapstick.
3:Better storyline. I thought this one had a much better storyline than AE...

Gluk Schmuck · #18 12-09-2001, 02:46 PM

:

Originally posted by SeaRex:
Whoa! That I can see how the 4 finger thing can be offensive! Especially the fact that the muds worked in a meat packing factories! ... thats just not cool.

No, it's ironic. I don't think any Japanese people would be offended if you showed them a character with 4 fingers.
The irony is that the Mudokons are working in a meat-packing factory and if they accidentally lost a finger the Japanese authoritys wouldn't mind!
That's called extortion!
Fox and Disney probably have to pay loads to get thier stuff into the country. The only reason The Simpsons and Micy Mouse still have 4 fingers is because they had enough money to supply to Japan AND pay the extortionate authorities.

Melvin:squeeking paramite · #19 12-09-2001, 02:46 PM

I have to say I like AO better for several reasons... (though AE was a great game)
1:More original. It started the whole Oddworld quintology, and introduced Abe.
2:Like many have said, it had a more mystical and dark feel to it... Personally, I like dark humor more than slapstick.
3:Better storyline. I thought this one had a much better storyline than AE...
4:It was harder, I thought... AE had quicksave, which made it easier.
5:AE had a lot of stupid humor, and the rhymes at the beginning were very infantile...
6:I thought AO was funner... I don't know why, I just like a lot of the strategy put into it.
7:AO was a parody on large, corporate businesses and gluttony.. very mature for a video game.

Many more reasons, but these are the reasons I have for now...

Edit: ACK! what just happened? It double posted, yet this one has more information than the other...

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Melvin:squeeking paramite ]

SeaRex · #20 12-09-2001, 04:13 PM

:

Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck:
No, it's ironic. I don't think any Japanese people would be offended if you showed them a character with 4 fingers.
The irony is that the Mudokons are working in a meat-packing factory and if they accidentally lost a finger the Japanese authoritys wouldn't mind!
That's called extortion!

Ahhh, yes. Irony was the word I was searching for! Thanx for clearing that up for me. (You would think that I would of gotten it by now. The whole exortion thing has been mentioned like 3 times...)

oddite4456 · #21 12-10-2001, 01:28 AM

Personally, I liked them both. I don't think AO and AE should be in a civil war with each other. We should accept the fact AO and AE are different but still very Odd.

paramiteabe · #22 12-10-2001, 11:30 AM

AE is cool just as cool as AO but longer.

***Xavier*** · #23 12-10-2001, 05:34 PM

I prefer AE it's easyer...

Nobody realy HATE AE they just prefer AO

•[cyrus]• · #24 12-10-2001, 06:58 PM

I think i'll like AE better because it has more levels(I don't have it yet ) And in AO, the main thing is Scrabanian Temple and Paramonian Temple (HARD__WICKED HARD)

SeaRex · #25 12-10-2001, 07:09 PM

Yeah, Paramonian Temple gave me nightmares! And then there is the return to rupture farms!!! Scary!!!

LavosSpawn · #26 12-10-2001, 07:20 PM

I'm an AO man myself. I like the way AO has more spirituality and mystecism, not to mention the more epic storyline. The dark humour is more to my liking than the sillyness in AE, and Abe's voice is much better.

And since some people are haviing trouble with "Epic", here is the definition:

ep·ic (pk)
n.

1.An extended narrative poem in elevated or dignified language, celebrating the feats of a legendary or traditional hero.
2.A literary or dramatic composition that resembles an extended narrative poem celebrating heroic feats.
3.A series of events considered appropriate to an epic: the epic of the Old West.

adj.

1.Of, constituting, having to do with, or suggestive of a literary epic: an epic poem.
2.Surpassing the usual or ordinary, particularly in scope or size: “A vast musical panorama... it requires an epic musical understanding to do it
justice” (Tim Page).
3.Heroic and impressive in quality: “Here in the courtroom... there was more of that epic atmosphere, the extra amperage of a special moment”
(Scott Turow).

[From Latin epicus, from Greek epikos, from epos, word, song. See wekw- in Indo-European Roots.]

Danny · #27 12-10-2001, 07:44 PM

I meant it as an adjective, and it's clear that as such it suits AO far better than AE.

Thank you to all the people who contrasted the Dark Humour of AO to the Silly Slapstick of AE. I was trying to say that, but couldn't find the words...

There seems to be a general trend here than Bigger is Better. I would like to refute that. So what if AO was a smaller game than AE? It was far better crafted, with a better storyline, better humour, better atmosphere, etc. OWI went for quality over quantity with AO...

Also, some people seem to assume that because the humour was more subtle in AO that it was somehow less funny. I disagree. I laughed out loud at several points in AO, as well as being brought to the brink of tears. AE brought no such emotions out of me.

Sorry.

LavosSpawn · #28 12-10-2001, 07:55 PM

Thanks Rettick, thats exactly what I was trying to say!

Doug · #29 12-11-2001, 01:21 AM

I've just arrived at Feeco Depot for the first time, and so far I couldn't say which one I like better. It's been fun making paramites communicate with each other, having scrabs take care of those dang fleeches, and having to deal with other mudokon's feelings before ordering them around. Flying sligs are a hoot -- it cracks me up when they yell "Gotcha!"

The "blow-up-your-own-farts" deal is a bit over-the-top as far as potty humor goes, but AO wasn't completely immune from that; Abe did have to fart his way through large expanses of AO. Belching fleeches are a bit much, too. But hey, these aren't literary masterpieces -- they're games.

For me, AO's one real flaw was the way you were forced to play parts that you had completely mastered over and over and over to get to some jump with a scrab hot on your heels maybe a minute down the road from the point you had to restart after dying. As much as I loved AO, it's difficult to imagine how much better my perception of it might have been if some of the play wasn't so darn frustrating. Don't get me wrong, AO is one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played, and turned me into an Oddworld fan, but there were times I wanted to hunt down whoever decided on fixed save points and wring his or her neck. AE has its challenging parts, too, but being able to focus in on the tough parts without replaying parts you've mastered is a big positive. On the other hand, even apart from Quiksave, my vague sense is that the puzzles in AO were a bit more challenging and gave one a bigger sense of accomplishment.

Thematically, they seem awfully similar to me. Maybe I'm simple, but I fail to see how AO is a parody of corporate greed but AE is not. Maybe AO did a better job with it. It's also tough topping the original -- AO will always be in a class by itself. The bottom line, though, is that I'm liking AE plenty -- more Oddworld, more Abe, more cracking up about the myriad ways I buy the farm, more great gameplay. By the time I'm finished with AE, I'm going to be psyched to play AO again.

General Drippik · #30 12-11-2001, 01:30 AM

You have to admit, AE is better. You can't say it sucks, because it doesn't. But it is far better than AO, it gives me more pleasure. It's funnier, don't care if it's dark humour or not. It's easier, it's more complex, it's longer. My list could go on forever...