Things you want, and things to fix, in Twice Ze Flavour?

[MeechCrunchies]

Personally, I just want Abe's chanting to stop making noises when something is possessed (That really bothered me hearing that over and over again after taking control of a Slig), hearing Scrabs, Paramites, and Slogs how they used to be , to change the animation speeds of certain actions like well jumping, entering/exiting doors, etc. and maybe the option to turn off Slig and Mudokon dialogue in the in game options, as those were the only things I really honestly couldn't stand in New 'n Tasty.

On the subject of something such as the slogs, the intimidation factor used to be way, way higher seeing a group of these vs..what we got in New 'n Tasty..I'm sorry but they just didn't cut the mustard, at least in my opinion. Slogs used to scare the shit out of me, and even as an adult still slightly give me the willies when I go back and play AO and AE..

[Job McYossie]

The fast animations was probably one of my biggest issues.

[Shrykull43]

it looks like you're playing on a supercomputer with an unlocked framerate

Also i agree about the slogs. I think the game lost a LOT of its horror factor. However this could be an intentional shift to a different target audience

[MeechCrunchies]

It just bothers me that there were certain things that just didn't seem to fit in well even in the context of New 'n Tasty as a from scratch remake, and these things (Such as the overall design elements of the Slogs ranging from visuals to a non threatening and even slightly hilarious sound element) were just apparently overlooked by JAW and OWI even though I personally think they knew they could've done a much better job, but were overlooked, even though there are places in the game where these things could have benefited greatly from an increase in tension, and this is something I really honestly hope JAW and OWI pay attention to this time around.

[Bullet Magnet]

I think we're giving the niggling details far too much weight, considering the true scope of JAW's accomplishment with the game.

We're like the starving charity cases who send back their donated meals because the sauce wasn't made from the right kind of truffle.

[MeechCrunchies]

Yes but can you really call certain secrets and parts of the game that were actually important niggling? All I'm really asking for is to bring back the dread, the tension, the little things that added up to a lot in the original that just were absent this go around.

[Varrok]

Things to fix, in Twice Ze Flavour, in comparision to just NnT or AE?

[MeechCrunchies]

Basically in comparison to New 'n Tasty.

[Shrykull43]

We're like the starving charity cases who send back their donated meals because the sauce wasn't made from the right kind of truffle.

LOL

But in all honesty AO and AE were horrifying but beautiful and thoughtfully put together games by design which is what generated my original appeal. Those two elements are almost nonexistent in NnT, it's like the remade the whole art style instead of just the game.

Aside from that i really enjoy NnT and am grateful that it was even remembered in 2015, just constructive criticism if you will.

[Bullet Magnet]

The art style was one of the things I thought was reproduced most faithfully. It has like a 99% fidelity to the original.

[Shrykull43]

really?? where's all the bloody floors, bloody walls, artfully terrifying silhouettes, and most of the creatures just seem too goofy. Sligs screaming "Help, Momma" REALLY?!?!

Also the ragdoll physics are kind of ridiculous. yeah they're funny but when i got crushed by a rock in AO it startled me and my heart rate jumped briefly, in fact the original still has that effect. I didn't LOL as abe's corpse flew 30 feet away like i do now. When your forward momentum was abruptly reversed then halted as you dropped to the ground and withered away all within 2 seconds accompanied by loud ominous sounds and beats, THAT was oddworld.

[Varrok]

Some assets were more faithful than others. NnT had much more clean and futuristic RF than the original, so you can't really say it's 99% faithful in art style, BM.

[Shrykull43]

I just played the game for a bit and realized something else. The developer humor is gone. I remember in the original there was a lever you had to pull in the first few screens of scrabania to activate some tubes. But if you pull it from the side you come from like most people would the first time. A huge fucking rock falls on your head. That whole thing was removed. Also where's all the "AO is loading so sit down and SHUDDAP!"

[MeechMunchie]

- Try and tie the ambient audio to the action as much as possible. Overall, you did a solid job with the sound design in NnT (still love the dirty-feet-on-warm-metal footstep noise). Oddworld always had this throbbing, organic vibe - you called the game engine "A.L.I.V.E." for Christ's sake - so reacting to the movements of characters on-screen (e.g. Glukkons' "twinkle toes" in AE) is a great touch.

- Remember that Oddworld has always sold itself on being a living world. The creatures have ways of eating and breathing, the machinery has seams where it fits together. This means you can't paper over little cracks for the sake of being more "gamey". I'm looking at you, smoke columns emerging from flat, empty patches of featureless dirt. It's nitpicky, sure, but that's a committment OWI made itself, and you can't start getting lax with it now. If the game needs something for the sake of playability, get the environment design guys in to justify it in-world. At least have the smoke coming out of a mysterious hole, or something.

- Seriously, no more magic dirt. It just looks like props are clipping into each other.

- Curved platforms. Sweeping scene transitions. You keep reminding everyone that this isn't a traditional remake, so go nuts and do some things that the original never could. The moving camera is the most significant change, so make it move in some interesting ways. Imagine Abe running up a spiral staircase, with the camera orbiting the column.

- The other change is that Abe actually exists in 3D space. You went to all the work of putting in that Z axis, make the most of it! Have some of the environmental props moving between the background and the foreground. Have some FeeCo. trains running through the gaps between platforms, or even use the top of the rails as platforms.

- Less NPC chatter, or more chatter-limiting options. You're making a puzzle game; let players think.

- Make the bell lock animation more punchy. I guess that might just be a nostalgia thing, but it definitely looked cooler when the bells were actually rattling and recoiling from the clapper's impact. It's weird, because the new bird portals are actually more "punchy" than the originals were. So, y'know, more of that.

- More puffy bladders.

- On Hard, pull no punches. People who ask a game to challenge them probably know what they want. Ramp up the fall damage, and let Abe get knocked over more easily. Lorne's vision with Abe was to get people to enjoy playing as someone pathetically weak. If people go out of their way to engage with that vision, make sure it lives up to their expectations - make Abe weak as shit.

- At least give players the option of using the original sound clips for the wildlife. No-one cares that they're low-res. A modder's done it for free in probably just a few working hours; you can't say it's too costly. And throw in a scanline filter for the nerds.

- Use the right green.

[Slog Bait]

I distinctly remember AO deaths always being the funniest part of the game because they'd happen in the stupidest most unexpected ways. Also that 'dun dun dun' bit at the end made me giggle when hearing it numerous times in short succession.

In an AE remake: I'd just lke more variation in the puzzles. More crawling slig puzzles, more glukkon puzzles, more flying slig puzzles, less rock and mine based puzzles and scenarios based around running. I I think there was a good balance of most other types. Maybe add a gameplay element that wasn't present in AE. Also, I'm kind of iffy on this one, but maybe don't put brew bottles to signify a secret area. In AO ypu had the sound element to point them out so im the originals it makes sense why they're there, but it would make more sense to put brew bottles when approaching sick mudokons.

I'm not as invested in how this remake is approached, mainly because it's bound to have the same tone NNT did, and NNT felt exactly like AE to me. We already know the visuals are going to be pretty faithful, and anything that needs to be fixed will probably be fixed even without us pointing anything out.

[Bullet Magnet]

Some assets were more faithful than others. NnT had much more clean and futuristic RF than the original, so you can't really say it's 99% faithful in art style, BM.

I don't think so. The external structure of the main building is changed (and the change is based on original art anyway) but it doesn't seem more futuristic or cleaner. They have the memory for more moving background parts, sure. And much of the old grittiness is entirely down to resolution. The grittiness and mess that actually existed was recreated. And some was added in (the 1%), such as the wrecked train to Zulag 5.

I just played the game for a bit and realized something else. The developer humor is gone. I remember in the original there was a lever you had to pull in the first few screens of scrabania to activate some tubes. But if you pull it from the side you come from like most people would the first time. A huge fucking rock falls on your head. That whole thing was removed. Also where's all the "AO is loading so sit down and SHUDDAP!"

I'm pretty sure most people spotted the X on the ground and avoided that. The same joke is used to greater effect in Exoddus anyway.

[Holy Sock]

I found that Zulags 2-4 looked very similar to the originals. And some areas were a great improvement. There was only one or two that looked a lot more impressive the first time around (the silo and the Secret Vault).

Also, Meech, didn't all the steam zones have pipes underneath them? I thought that's how they explained that away?

Changes

Most of my complaints are relatively minor. I suppose, sometimes, it felt like maneuvering around with the "Button to Run" option felt a little awkward. Like it took Abe a bit to long to change direction or something? I dunno.

- Personally I'd like to see the sound design for Slogs changed. They seemed rather neutered this time around. Perhaps the chase theme also felt a bit too quiet. I guess there were a couple of times where the Scrab sounds didn't cut through the cacophony of noise like they did in the original - which I liked. But mostly it's Slogs that didn't feel particularly intimidating

- I suppose turning down the chatter a bit wouldn't hurt. And issues with some of the animations has been well documented here and elsewhere.

- I'd love to see the Lens Dirt completely removed from gameplay and cutscenes. I know there are plenty of people who didn't mind it at all but it was personally distracting at certain points in the game and added a layer a brightness that wasn't needed either.

The game looks a lot better without it and the environments really do stand on their own two feet.

- Some sounds like explosions, Abe & Mudokons getting shot etc could be a bit more visceral. They always made me jump in the originals and I missed that in NnT.

- I think Mudokons should cower after a Slig has beaten them. It feels a lot less brutal without it.

- I guess a distinction could be made with the average Slig and the seemingly elite visor Sligs. Perhaps the Elite Sligs could act more like their original counterparts to appease those with the opinion that the Slig chatter completely ruins the Sligs.

What I want

- Hmmm, I'm not to sure. I like the suggestions of the z axis playing a bigger role in some areas. I thought this room in Zulag 3 worked really well because of it.

- I guess they could add a few more Tear X-Tractor machines. They were used about twice int he original and I always felt we could have seen a few more of them.

- I think it would be great if the tutorial screen in AE gave players a chance to try out the different control schemes (much like FPS games provide inverted sight tutorials in the beginning).

- Perhaps the Spirit locks could be a lot more interesting visually?

- I'd love to see an encyclopedia in the Extras menu - much like the Assassin's Creed series - in lieu of the manuals. Just giving players a short rundown on the characters, species, and locales in NnT & this game.

- I'd also like to see some unlockable skins. Perhaps you could unlock all the different Mudokon variants like Big Face, Native Mudokons, Blind Mudokons etc?

[MeechMunchie]

Also, Meech, didn't all the steam zones have pipes underneath them? I thought that's how they explained that away?

The Free-Fire Zone definitely didn't.

I didn't notice that scene with the meat conveyor, but it's definitely the kind of thing I meant.

[Bullet Magnet]

The free-fire zone definitely did. I checked.

[Shrykull43]

I'm pretty sure most people spotted the X on the ground and avoided that. The same joke is used to greater effect in Exoddus anyway.

It's not about how easy it was to avoid it's the fact that the sole purpose of that object was to troll and kill the player. That's the original OI devs spirit, taking it out just proves how far the attitude toward the game has drifted.

[Jordan]

Also, I'm kind of iffy on this one, but maybe don't put brew bottles to signify a secret area. In AO ypu had the sound element to point them out so im the originals it makes sense why they're there, but it would make more sense to put brew bottles when approaching sick mudokons.

To expand upon this: perhaps only keep the brew bottle piles in Easy mode. In AE they did make it extremely easy to find secret areas. Understandably there were a lot more Mudokons to save, but it was actually challenging to look for secrets in AO/NnT.

It would be nice to tone down on the more comedic elements that were introduced in NnT. I think AE's level of comedy was on point. I'd like to see Sligs being truly intimidating again!

I'd love an expansion upon the emotion mechanics introduced in AE through dialogue. Make angry Mudokons sound truly pissed with their idle chatter. Perhaps start bitching at nearby Mudokons.

[Havoc]

- Make sure to give the characters the personality they deserve. Molluck didn't have much personality given to him in AO, but it was properly stripped away in NnT. He was no longer the badass CEO I remember him to be from AO's opening. I'd say the characters in AE need to be properly fleshed out, but honestly I think that they should just take what was already present in AE and run with it.

- Please make the Sligs shut up. In fact, make the overall ambiance of the game much quieter. It was the silence that made much of the atmosphere in both AO and AE. Just hearing the Sligs walking is alarming. Hearing them talk gibberish on top of it makes them much less frightening.

- New gameplay and puzzle elements to have fun with. The game doesn't have to be a carbon copy of AE in terms of level and puzzle layout. Be creative!

- Level editor. For the love of god... level editor! Steam workshop support! Stick it on as 10 dollar DLC 6 months after release for all I care, but bloody hell just give it to us. We want to make puzzles!! See Cities: Skylines or Portal 2 as examples of how long the community can keep a game alive with custom content.

- Fuck bloom.

- If the playable real estate isn't going to increase much, don't cram even more Mudokons in there. 300 is plenty, thank you.

- The door to Rupture Farms in the FeeCo Depot, do something more there than just board it up. Dare I say a cutscene that explains what happened to Rupture Farms after Abe left and how Molluck is wanted etc.

[Holy Sock]

The only difference with Molluck was that he was now audible - and he didn't laugh at his own master plan. I dunno, he didn't seem particularly different to me.

[AvengingGibbons]

I'm so excited for Abe's Exoddus because the environments in the original are actually 3D scene renders rather than the same image assets collaged together in different ways like a lot of Abe's Oddysee's backgrounds were. This means that pretty much all of the level aesthetic design already exists and I want to see the exact same environments brought to life in 3D.

I want Abe to look a bit more tired, like the original Abe. A bit of bagginess around his eyes and mouth.

I want the character movements to be more true to real life. I agree with what someone said about the slogs. They look too smooth. Need to roughen them up a bit.

I don't really have much to say because I haven't played New'n'Tasty yet, but my thoughts are based on what I've seen in youtube vids, etc.

Really chuffed to hear Exoddus is gonna be remade

Something else. I don't like the cuts to other scenes like when it cut to Molluck angrily watching the CCTV cameras when he escapes rupture farms. There's something about just following Abe exclusively and being blissfully unaware of all the shit that's going down back at rupture farms. I prefer Exoddus' concept of providing Abe with News bulletins that he himself watches. It means you ARE Abe. You know what he knows. Your relationship with Abe is more personalised. The game doesn't cut to other characters.

I think Abe's escape from rupture farms should have seemed more like a non-issue for Molluck. After all, Abe is a nobody until he returns having completed his quests and earned his power, somebody not worth fretting over if he were to escape.

[Nate]

I'm so excited for Abe's Exoddus because the environments in the original are actually 3D scene renders rather than the same image assets collaged together in different ways like a lot of Abe's Oddysee's backgrounds were.

Other way round. AO was mostly custom built, while AE (which was a larger game produced in a shorter period of time) had a lot of collage-built levels. Look at the Art book to see some of the bits and pieces they used.

[AvengingGibbons]

Other way round. AO was mostly custom built, while AE (which was a larger game produced in a shorter period of time) had a lot of collage-built levels. Look at the Art book to see some of the bits and pieces they used.

Really? Most areas of Exoddus look very unique and the environments seem to be better constructed/designed, as if they were designed to be played in 3D.

[Bixer]

I'll probably get some stick for this (apart from maybe Nepsotic), but the only changes I really want are for them to totally re-do the last...quarter or so of the game? And stop it from being an endless series of boring hubs and zulags. If that literally just means cutting out a big chunk of it, then so be it.

[Holy Sock]

I disgaree Gibbons about that Molluck bit. I mean Abe's Exoddus had that really long Boardroom scene when Abe went to the FeeCo Depot the first time. And that cutscene which cuts to Phleg capturing Mudokons. AO even had that cutscene where Molluck orders the Mudokons to be gassed. If it works for the story to take the focus off Abe for a bit then so be it.

[DrewCameron]

Fix animations, fix sound. Respect original tone. NO NPC banter.

[Holy Sock]

I think we'll be getting a bit of idle chatter at the very least.