Abe HD

[Sekto Springs]

Most of the screens in AO/AE had only two depths of field; the foreground elements and background elements.

Those epic vistas could be easily recreated with a series of matte paintings. In fact, you could wrap said paintings around a very simple, low poly "landscape" set only a short distance from the foreground camera and it would look magnificent. The sky could be a static matte. The foreground would be where the most polygonal and atmospheric detail is applied.

[lloyd]

make sure the lighting/shadows and geometry line up shot to shot :O


I'm not saying i've put screen shots together or anything. i never said that.

Or a mediocre artist with really big feet.

size 11 COME AT ME

[zimfromBM]

Neither was your parents contraceptive practice. Wham.

2/10

[Nate]

Most of the screens in AO/AE had only two depths of field; the foreground elements and background elements.

Those epic vistas could be easily recreated with a series of matte paintings. In fact, you could wrap said paintings around a very simple, low poly "landscape" set only a short distance from the foreground camera and it would look magnificent. The sky could be a static matte. The foreground would be where the most polygonal and atmospheric detail is applied.

But normally the background was made up of a large number of elements, spreading quite far back. The best example that I can think of, off the top of my head, was Feeco Depot, which had those massive storage warehouses filled with crates.

Also, think of the Monsaic Lines (my favourite level and if it doesn't look awesome in Abe HD, I'll put a curse on the lot of you); there was a back wall in the distance, things coming down from the rooftop, massive statues, the platform that Abe steps on, then occassionally rocks and things in front of that platform. Also consider the screens where paths are in the background, whether accessible (as in the Stockyards and in much of AE) or future/past paths shown in the distance (like in Paramonia).

There's a lot more going on than a close, low-poly landscape could display well.

[Manco]

I think it really depends on how optimised JAW plan on making it. I hate to bring up Sonic Generations again, but it really does an astounding job of creating detailed level landscape with depth and volume.

You can see in this selection of screenshots exactly how good it looks.

Here’s videos of it in action:
Rooftop Run
Chemical Plant
Green Hill

Now, this isn’t a perfect comparison. Generations obviously goes for a cartoon-ish style over realism. But the principles remain the same – it utilises detailed backgrounds in a 2.5D realm to produce spectacular levels. It’s a lot more fast-paced than any Oddworld game, too, which I would say counts in Abe HD’s favor – Generations has to render its backgrounds at a much faster rate than Abe HD likely will, which means Abe would likely be able to up its background quality and still retain a similar performance.

One last thing about Generations: it’s fairly demanding in terms of PC specs.

Minimum:
OS: Microsoft Windows 7/Vista/XP
Processor: Intel Pentium Dual-Core T4200 (2x2.0GHz) or AMD equivalent
Memory: 2GB RAM (XP)/3GB RAM (Windows 7 / Vista)
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 (512MB) / ATI Radeon HD 2900 (512MB)
DirectX®:
Hard Drive: 11 GB free hard drive space
Sound:

That brings me back to my original point. The quality of Abe HD’s graphics likely depends on how far they are planning to go with optimisation. If the team decide they want Abe HD to be playable on shitty computers, there’s simply no way full-3D graphics would hold up to the level people would want. So I think JAW are going to have to think very carefully about who their PC offering will be aimed at.

Personally, I think they shouldn’t be too concerned about the PC specs – at the end of the day, the people who buy a game on Steam either have a capable PC (or intend to have one), or don’t check the minimum requirements first.

And if they can’t run it? Consoles are still around.

[lloyd]

All this talk about art makes me wish I was a better artist. I look forward to seeing how this goes.


But I'm sure with the original art then it will come out good,

Do you guys plan on making it exactly how it was? Or are you going to jazz it up a bit? more details, deviate from the concept so to speak?

[Spooce-aholic]

-snip-

I think it really depends on how optimised JAW
That brings me back to my original point. The quality of Abe HD’s graphics likely depends on how far they are planning to go with optimisation. If the team decide they want Abe HD to be playable on shitty computers, there’s simply no way full-3D graphics would hold up to the level people would want. So I think JAW are going to have to think very carefully about who their PC offering will be aimed at.

Personally, I think they shouldn’t be too concerned about the PC specs – at the end of the day, the people who buy a game on Steam either have a capable PC (or intend to have one), or don’t check the minimum requirements first.

And if they can’t run it? Consoles are still around.

I guess it could be possible to have graphics options. So you can choose low settings if your computer is bad. Or higher settings if you have a powerfull computer.

[Sekto Springs]

There's a lot more going on than a close, low-poly landscape could display well.

What you're describing are different objects on different spacial planes. They could still be low poly, and just have a bang-up paint job. Something I learned while working on Arenas and just observing game artistry in general is that you can create a surprisingly stunning looking result by slapping a good paint job on a shapeless mass. This is especially true in the case of static environmental props. The only thing you have to watch for is dynamic lighting, which can often negate the illusion of depth if it's shining on an object that has little/no polys.

Oddhunter provides a fine example with Sonic. The polys are low, and the coloration is cartoony and simplistic, but there are still several spacial planes at work in that environment, more than two depths of field. Apply an Oddworld-worthy paintjob to that same environment and I guarantee it would still look pretty damn impressive. I think if they're clever enough, JAW can make a game that looks as good as Trine or better without relying on polygonal complexity.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, it takes less to render a simple 3D object with a good paint job than a complex one. On that note, I hope the environmental artists they hire are magnificent.

[zimfromBM]

pretty much what I want to see is what OWI would have done had they had the technology at the time. the same sets but with glorious lighting shadows and the rest of it. As long as it looks like abes oddysee and the gameplay is as fluid as it was on the ps1 I wont complain.

[Glitch]

I don't agree. I haven't played/looked at the whole game, so possibly other sections are different, but my impression from that video is that it shows high level detail, but only in close quarters. There is always a solid wall or cliff-face close behind the characters, blocking off any distant views. For me, the epic vistas are what made AO and AE, particularly in Paramonia and Scrabania. If you could only have a short draw distance, I'd be very disappointed.

Distance means very little in terms of rendering impact. If anything, the deeper the view point, the better as it means we can use lower poly models and higher level mip maps.

Maximum poly-count is pretty damn high these days on modern consoles and PCs.

[Nate]

True, but I meant distance in terms of the fact that AO and AE had a lot more on the screen than Trine did. They had quite a deep background, with lots of landscape and props, whereas Trine just had a wall.

[Glitch]

There are other points in Trine where you get huge great vistas. that level is the way it is to give more of a "boxed in" feel I would imagine. Imagine an FPS game, then imagine that we lock the camera where it is and place some geometry close to the camera, then only pan the camera left and right. That's exactly what a 2.5D game will be. As much detail as you can expect from an FPS' environments and perspective, encased in a sides crolling game style.

[zimfromBM]

The real question is are you going to make it a sidescroller or keep it screen by screen?

[Nate]

There are other points in Trine where you get huge great vistas. that level is the way it is to give more of a "boxed in" feel I would imagine. Imagine an FPS game, then imagine that we lock the camera where it is and place some geometry close to the camera, then only pan the camera left and right. That's exactly what a 2.5D game will be. As much detail as you can expect from an FPS' environments and perspective, encased in a sides crolling game style.

I get that. I wasn't saying that it wasn't possible, just that Trine (or at least that particular video) wasn't a good example of what to expect.

Can you please find me a video of the more impressive parts of Trine?

[AvengingGibbons]

In the original Abe games, you could have an unlimited number of available mudokons positioned on the same spot. In 2D, it works because expectations of the realism are not too high. How will this situation be treated in Abe HD where a 3D environment means objects aligned on the z-axis are important?

I was thinking it would be good for the mudokons/environment to have an AI system where the mudokons will space themselves out appropriately depending on what space is available. If they are walking down a narrow corridoor, they could walk in single-file (or maybe not single-file, but they should take on more of a line shape rather than a close gathering). I'm thinking some kind of 'funnelling' system could work. Chances are you've probably thought about this already, but I've not seen it mentioned so I thought I'd bring it up.

[Varrok]

In the original Abe games, you could have an unlimited number of available mudokons positioned on the same spot. In 2D, it works because expectations of the realism are not too high. How will this situation be treated in Abe HD where a 3D environment means objects aligned on the z-axis are important?

That's a very good point you've got here. Personally, I hope there won't be any collision system between Abe and other muds (but eventually something like a "muds quickly move out of the way" system)

[DarkHoodness]

That's a very good question - However, maybe the trick is to have wider platforms and have mudokons follow Abe in a similar way to how sackbots follow the player in LBP2 - They spread out a bit and rarely stand on the same spot - And even if they do, it's not so bad.

[koopa]

Can't Wait for those Remakes
I played lot of times and want to play again when they are released
hope my Computer can takes it

[MeechMunchie]

The real question is are you going to make it a sidescroller or keep it screen by screen?

The real answer is sidescroller with some individual screens.

[Nepsotic]

i wonder how that will work, as the screen-by-screen was very important, for example, bird portals, what happens if you scare them away? or awake a sleeping slig? and how far will sligs be able to shoot?

[Spooce-aholic]

In the original Abe games, you could have an unlimited number of available mudokons positioned on the same spot. In 2D, it works because expectations of the realism are not too high. How will this situation be treated in Abe HD where a 3D environment means objects aligned on the z-axis are important?

They just turn off collisions with Abe and NPCs.

i wonder how that will work, as the screen-by-screen was very important, for example, bird portals, what happens if you scare them away? or awake a sleeping slig? and how far will sligs be able to shoot?

1. They should make it so that nothing can scare the birds. I didn't like that in AO/AE. But if they want the birds to get scared of stuff, then they could make it so that after a certain amount of time of nothing happening, the birds come back.

2. They already figured this out. After a certain amount of time of nothing happening, the Slig will go back to sleep. So Abe can just stay in a shadow or a certain distance away and wait.

3. The guns can have an infinite range, but the Sligs will only detect and shoot at Abe within a certain distance.

[Manco]

In the original Abe games, you could have an unlimited number of available mudokons positioned on the same spot. In 2D, it works because expectations of the realism are not too high. How will this situation be treated in Abe HD where a 3D environment means objects aligned on the z-axis are important?

That's a very good question - However, maybe the trick is to have wider platforms and have mudokons follow Abe in a similar way to how sackbots follow the player in LBP2 - They spread out a bit and rarely stand on the same spot - And even if they do, it's not so bad.

Building off of this, since all the level designs would be crafted individually, they could easily design areas with more Mudokons present with wider pathways. Realistically, in AO/AE you would only ever have a certain number of Mudokons following you in any one area, so you could simply make areas with heavy Mudokon traffic have wider paths, and areas with less/no Mudokons (say, the wilderness/temples) have narrower paths.

That could even work its way into the atmosphere a little – a narrow path can unnerve the player in some cases, even if they can’t actually fall off.

[DarkHoodness]

Wait, what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oddworl...ysee#HD_remake

HD remake
On January 31, 2011, Oddworld Inhabitants confirmed that a HD remake of Abe's Oddysee is being developed by UK studio, Just Add Water. The remix is described by series creator Lorne Lanning as "basically Abe's Oddysee being redone in a 3D physics engine as a 2D side-scrolling platformer," stating the developers "are not trying to reinvent any wheels." The game is scheduled to come out in early 2012, confirmed recently by Just Add Water on Twitter. No formats have been announced as of yet.[49]

Seems someone got confused. Maybe someone ought to change that.

And this is why nobody should rely on Wikipedia as a solid research source. :P

[Havoc]

What's stopping you?

[DarkHoodness]

I've never bothered to make a wikipedia account and there are others who are better informed than I am. I know that nugget of info I quoted isn't true, though.

[Nate]

You can edit Wikipedia without an account. It records your IP address instead. Just remember to cite a source.

[Manco]

Or just add ^{[citation needed]}. That way someone else does the work for you.

[STM]

Someone please change it to 2011.

[Havoc]

Now it says that the 2012 release date has been confirmed by JAW on Twitter. Da fuq guys...

[Glitch]

Why is Wikipedia singularly crap at all Oddworld stuff? It's as if Oddworld is the only IP in which its most dedicated and knowledgeable fan base refuses to keep its Wikipedia page accurate and up to date.

I actually had to go in and change the release dates once, only to have it changed back the next hour, as well as some other retarded information added. I can't help but imagine the dribbling mouth breathers who are essentially just making stuff up and believing in it enough that they attempt to drag everyone else into their private little universe.