Abe HD Ideas

[DarkHoodness]

Don't the bees and honey replace the elum trap anyway? Makes more sense too rather than a gismo made by the Glukkons out in the middle of nowhere that you have to deactivate.

The crumbling ledges may be a good addition as a more feasible way of preventing players from jumping across gaps that they're only meant to be able to traverse with the Elum, rather than bats, but that would confuse players of the original game who associate falling rocks with showing the way up into a screen above them. Simply widening the gaps may do the trick.

[Sekto Springs]

I think bats makes more sense than crumbling ledges, personally.

[Michael]

What about introducing some kind of deadly thorny plant, (like a spiky tumbleweed-cactus thingamajig) that grows on cliff faces throughout Scrabania?

It could be placed below the long gaps, growing out of the cliff face, so if Abe jumps and doesn't make the gap be falls onto/through the thorns and dies? There would clearly be no way to hang from the ledge because of the thorns.

A dry dusty plant like this would fit with the hostile desert theme quite well I think!

[Scrabaniac]

Fairs. Whats happening with the hidden, unused screens, i assume it was decided not to include them in the final cut but using a cheat on pc you can access them. My point being, is there new scenes/is it going to be a larger game than original (but obviously the same buildup)?

[Nepsotic]

What about introducing some kind of deadly thorny plant, (like a spiky tumbleweed-cactus thingamajig) that grows on cliff faces throughout Scrabania?

It could be placed below the long gaps, growing out of the cliff face, so if Abe jumps and doesn't make the gap be falls onto/through the thorns and dies? There would clearly be no way to hang from the ledge because of the thorns.

A dry dusty plant like this would fit with the hostile desert theme quite well I think!

But yet again, we're faced with the problem of gore. The game can't be too violent, if anything it was more acceptable back then.

[Nate]

I don't like the crumbly-ledge idea. It means that you can't backtrack, for instance to find rocks. Or just to explore.

[Phylum]

That said, it would make for a very dramatic and clear way of letting the player know that they can't go back that way.

[Bodd T.W.]

I don't like the crumbly-ledge idea. It means that you can't backtrack, for instance to find rocks. Or just to explore.

The crumbling ledges could be implemented in the final rooms of the temples as a source of suspense, perhaps?

[Scrabaniac]

The player would be able to back track if the crumbling ledge consisted of 1 pace (the furthest abe can jump without elum) but he can still make the jump With elum.anyway i thought there was only 1 bat in the gap at the right hand side so a crumbling ledge wouldnt make a difference. (unless you go for the crappy regenerating sprite type thing)

[Nate]

The player would be able to back track if the crumbling ledge consisted of 1 pace (the furthest abe can jump without elum) but he can still make the jump With elum.

Then it wouldn't need to be crumbly. It could just be that wide.

That said, it would make for a very dramatic and clear way of letting the player know that they can't go back that way.

I don't like being herded in one direction. That was one of the things that annoyed me with SW.

[Fartuess]

I wanted to discuss about one aspect that makes me worry about posted by Wil two months ago on 53 page of this topic.

Nice and nostalgic as that might be, it may not work with the mechanics and AI we're developing, particularly since screen edges will no longer be acting as artificial barriers to character awareness. I would have to leave it to the designer to confirm this.

I suspect the very reason the game used flick screen at all was the same reason it was 2D in the first place: to allow fantastic visuals with limited processing and memory. Just as sprites afforded characters better appearance than could be done with the 3D of the day, static cameras allowed beautiful scenery without having to worry about things like parallaxing. I'm not sure what this has to do with your question, I just felt like saying it.

If i understand it correctly that means AbeHD will be sidescroller platformer instead of platformer where level is divided to separate screens? That would be bad imho. It would require redesigning a lot of puzzles and makes running from scrabs and slogs less exciting as you could see that distance between you and it would be constant. (Well it's not that exciting for me as i finished AO and AE twice, but it was exciting for the first time).

And btw. Whats about moving characters? It would be continous or discrete like in original game? By discrete i mean that Abe is making always equal steps.

[Wil]

It would require redesigning a lot of puzzles

So?

and makes running from scrabs and slogs less exciting as you could see that distance between you and it would be constant.

As opposed to the original where despite continuously catching the player up, arbitrary points in the world suddenly widen that gap.

And btw. Whats about moving characters? It would be continous or discrete like in original game? By discrete i mean that Abe is making always equal steps.

At the moment we're playing with a combination of both.

[Nepsotic]

I liked the way Abe always made equal steps, it made it more certain if you would make it over an obstacle or not.

[Michael]

For the mines and jumps that need to be made standing still, I think Abe should have equal steps and jumps. Much of the difficulty was in the player needing to learn patterns and execute a series of commands with good timing.

I feel this would be lost with unequal steps etc. AO is one of the few games where, if I fail a section, I know without a doubt that it's due to my own error- purely because the game runs on precision. It's almost mechanical in a way!

Not once do I recall ever shouting at the game from failing because it was 'unfair' and things hadn't worked as I expected. I'd be more inclined to look where I went wrong and say 'fair enough' than throw the controller down in anger! Even though the game can be maddeningly difficult at times, it remains highly playable because it's all about practice and developing skill, as opposed to grappling with unpredictable gameplay.

In my opinion, uneven movement risks changing the game from challenging to frustrating!

[Scrabaniac]

Was stranger done in equal paces? I managed jumps with that, but i can understand where people are comIng from, it would be irritating to be near a mine and move abe a fraction too far and get blown to bits

[Connell]

Most games these days go for the free-step style, but the gameplay mechanics of Abe's Oddysee mostly rely on the even-step style of walking, it kinda needs to stick like that!

[Sekto Springs]

Nearly all 3D games operate on a free step style, as it makes for more realistic and fluid gameplay in a three dimensional environment. Even step works great in a two-dimensional environment, but in three dimensions, I think it would be maddeningly stiff.

I'd be interested to see how you tackle this in 2.5D. Will you be toggling walking/running motion to how hard you press the thumbstick, or are you going to have button combos like the classics? You're going to have to re-design everything from the ground up either way. Good luck.

[MeechMunchie]

I suppose it could be free for running and even for walking, since I'd imagine someone on a path full of meat saws would be watching their step pretty damn carefully.

[Sekto Springs]

One thing that concerns me is the "slide" mechanics that are present in almost all 2.5D games. What I loved about the 2D games was that you could start/stop on a dime. Nowadays, characters in a 3D environment can't even turn around without you fucking sliding a few inches in that direction. It's like the floor is covered in birthing lubricant.

I'd say take the high road and do away with that slip n' slide style of motion from the off. Precision is the name of the game, and you should be able to go from standing perfectly still to a full sprint almost instantly. Same goes for rolling. Rolling gave you the speed of running but allowed you to stop with no skid. Keep that in.

[Scrabaniac]

I hope they keep all the controls anc gameplay the same, it was a huge element of abe's oddysee. It would feel wrong to have abe jump at the push of the X button! Which reminds me, will you keep the Dpad controls of move to analogue stick, or both?!

[Wil]

Depends what works. Controls are easily changed.

[MeechMunchie]

Just a random thought - if Abe HD is ever nearing a Steam release, you totally have to do a teaser image of a silhouetted* Slig with the Steam "pistons" logo over its leg.

*I hate spelling that

[Nepsotic]

I like the word piston.

I hope they keep all the controls anc gameplay the same, it was a huge element of abe's oddysee. It would feel wrong to have abe jump at the push of the X button!

They can't keep it all exactly the same, the have to appeal to new audiences and modern gamers wouldn't like them sort of controls.

[Connell]

A simple fix would be to have player changeable controls, with the modern sort of layout (X to jump etc..) being standard. Then have a mode in the options menu called 'Classic' where everything is as close to the original as they can get it.

But still, keep the walking of Abe to fixed pace movement, please.

[Fischkopf]

Hey JAW, did you ever consider making a optional camera mode for ABE HD with a fixed camera like in the original (i mean fixed screens)? Or if that would be too costly maybe as a DLC? Because i think a moving camera would affect the gameplay dramatically.

[STM]

But...you don't know anything about the new gameplay. How can you comment?

[Wil]

Except that since we're designing the game around a smoothscrolling camera, it's adding a fixed camera that would break the gameplay. You wouldn't be able to see the enemies just in front of you as they fire at you. You'd chant and activate a bird portal just out of your sight, sending Mudokons running into a pit you weren't aware of.

There are only two significant changes that a smoothscrolling camera means. For one, you can see what's coming. You don't run into a new screen and suddenly notice a minefield in front of you. This reduces the risk of cheap, frustrating deaths.

For two, there are no arbitrary lines through space that magically affect character AI. When you've woken a Slig and walked out of range, you can see if it's fallen back asleep or is staring straight at you. Yes, this means some puzzles will have to change to a lesser or larger degree, but there are very few (possibly zero) that will need to be removed or ruined.

[Crashpunk]

Just wondering. Do you have plans to have Ragdoll physics on the character models in Abe HD? or are they just going to have fixed, death animations that fizzle after death just like in the original game?

I ask because I though it would be interesting to see a Slig get shot then realistically fall off the platforms. And also the fact that I love Ragdoll physics in general :P

[Nepsotic]

That's why I love Happy Wheels.

[Wil]

Some deaths will be animations, but plenty will use ragdoll.