Oddworld at E3

[Varrok]

Well the original models are NURBs, and there's no way they're going to run in realtime. But the current models use the NURBs as reference, and they're pretty spot on. Last thing I did at work today was composite a picture of the two side by side. All the sizes and proportions and shapes are the same. Really. You can overlay them and fade between them and the lines stay in the same place.

There are three tiny differences. First, his eyelids are deeper. That's the only way I can describe it. You'll see what I mean when I post the comparison. Second, his mouth is a bit more downturned at the edges. Third, his stitches are a tad bigger, closer together and higher up. That's it. Only noticeable when you put them side by side. Not like Munch's Oddysee, where Abe is outrageously off-model. Miniscule differences.

I think two things are happening here. First, you're comparing very different images. The old ones and the new ones you're looking at next to each other have Abe in different poses, at different angles, under different lights. The pictures have different levels of brightness and contrast. And the old promotional pictures are just plain Photoshopped.

Second of all, and I have no tactful way of putting this, you're expecting an unreasonable level of similarity. It's diminishing returns for us to go delving for pixel-perfect reconstructions, especially since game design and computer graphics and the Oddworld style have all evolved so much since 1997. These cartoonish designs you're upset about are the originals, designed for tiny screens and limited colour palettes. And then you launch in unanimous criticism when a wrinkle is slightly to the left.

Yeah, shame on you, Nepsotic.

...

Okay, okay, I understand that most of this is directed to me. I admit I over-reacted about the animation. I don't know, the animation just felt wrong for me for some reason. Nevermind that, sorry.

But I still think something can be done about Abe's face, to remove that "no-eyebrow/no-eyelid" look (I put that in quotes, because he doesn't really have those in the original). To look good he's supposed to have shadows near his eyeballs, right? And if the lightning system causes them to vanish... then... maybe darken those parts in the texture? Or anything...

[Nepsotic]

You can't blame us for being overly critical, really. But as long as you're sure it's looking good, then we can trust you, just take into account what Varrok and I have been saying.

[MeechMunchie]

I think we need to see Abe pulling some more Abe-y expressions than the "Zoinks!" one we've seen so far.

Would you consider the current portal effect broken?

Sadly, yes. It's just too smooth, fluffy and shiny to mesh with the grimy, clunky, jagged art style it's surrounded by. That goes for the lightning gates too, albeit to a much lesser extent.

When I said "If it ain't broke", I meant that I'd assumed that if there wasn't a significant reason for a redesign, like not working in 3D or with a moving camera, JAW would just copy the original AO design.

Also, orange is creepy. Blue is less so. Oddworld is supposed to be creepy.

[Varrok]

What was so bad about making portals like the original ones? "oh no here he goes again"

[STM]

I thought the idea MM said to Glitch at Eurogamer was great, being able to see the Sanctum through the portal. Failing that, the orange orbs at the top and bottom of the portal were just my preference but that's down to nostalgia you know?

[Nepsotic]

Yeah, they could resemble the originals but have a 'ring' sort of appearance.

[MeechMunchie]

Don't even get me started on the stat boards.

[Bullet Magnet]

But it's always worth remembering that Oddworld doesn't sit in the same universe. The laws governing it are different. And conveniently so!

Wil, you're poking this slumbering dragon with an elum prod. You know what will happen if it wakes.

[Nate]

I just watched the video again. I really like what JAW has been doing with the environments. There's lots of shit going on in the background, which I love.

As for the bird portals; the last time I mentioned them I hadn't realised that we were only seeing the portals in the process of being opened. How do they look before Abe chants? Are they still circles of birds? I still kinda feel like they should look a bit more sparkly and mystical when opening, rather than just clouds of white smoke.

EDIT: I just had a thought and I can't find the NnT suggestion thread, so I'll just put it here. I'm assuming that quicksave is being implemented in this game. I'd like it if quicksaving saves the state of the bird portals, so that if they've flown away we actually need to leave the area and return to make them come back. It always felt like a cheat that in AE we could quicksave and quickload to retreive them.

[DarkHoodness]

If you look closely you can see one here, at 0:17 by the broken AC unit or whatever it is that's sparking (Good replacement for an electric barrier, BTW! I wonder if they intend to place more environmental hazards like that).

Seems the side of the portal bird's flight pattern is facing Abe rather than the screen now, and I wonder if that's a mistake or if there's a reason for it.

But I will agree that the blue-white cloud is a little naff and underwhelming... To 3D-ify and emulate the old effect, I'd try having a sphere that doubles as the portal opens, one floating up, another floating down, and a narrow, sparking column of light stretching out between them. Mudokons would jump into said column, and maybe it could widen briefly as if "consuming" them when they jump through it. Or maybe the disappearing models could be masked by a bright white flash or something if you wanna be lazy about it.

But perhaps it's too hard to do for little payoff/fan satisfaction when there are other more important areas of the game to work on.

[Bullet Magnet]

The portals should nick the old Star Trek transporter sound effects. That'll fix everything.

[DarkHoodness]

Or maybe they could have a 'new' mechanic altogether...



This took long. Also, Abe is left-handed, apparently.

[V_O_T]

I read here that it should look more powerful looking, so I mocked up what I thought the original portal would look like in 3D space.

The green indicates the effect that would go around the edge of the portal lines, making reality look all bent, like the effect in the garrys mod shot.

The red arrows just show those little streams of light or electricity or portal energy going up and down the edges of the rip.



I just mocked it up really quick, so the edges of the rip would be alot thinner. I think you could already achieve this with the engine you guys are using. Just 2 constant effect events pulsing (the smoke in the portal you guys have now) and the electricity effect you currently have too. But, i'm not an expert nor am I wonder woman, so i'm honestly stabbing in the dark here lol.

But overall I'm very pleased with the progress and your efforts of the development so far, seriously, thank you Just a few little things need tweaking up. I think all of us are willing to wait, so take your time

[JennyGenesis]

I'm unsure if you guys have discussed it, and I'm certainly not going to look through 7 pages of posts to find out, but have you seen that remade intro from the demo version of AO?

It's at the end of this interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...IZpxRo#t=1740s

I'm really not sure what to think about it, I'm really in two minds, as nice as it looks, at the same time, it really doesn't look good, but I'm goona assume it's early days yet and it hasen't been made to the highest quality possible yet.

[Crashpunk]

Nice find. Yeah I have agree about intro. It looks great aside from a few minor details such as Abe's animation and the boardroom. However I think the intro has been shortened just for the trailer. The AO Intro is pretty long if I recall.

For those who just want to see the intro, it's at 0:37:31

E: I just noticed the other Mudokons don't have ponytails.

Also welcome back.

[Manco]

I read here that it should look more powerful looking, so I mocked up what I thought the original portal would look like in 3D space.

The green indicates the effect that would go around the edge of the portal lines, making reality look all bent, like the effect in the garrys mod shot.

The red arrows just show those little streams of light or electricity or portal energy going up and down the edges of the rip.

http://s22.postimg.org/itaop2wcw/portal_effect.jpg

I just mocked it up really quick, so the edges of the rip would be alot thinner. I think you could already achieve this with the engine you guys are using. Just 2 constant effect events pulsing (the smoke in the portal you guys have now) and the electricity effect you currently have too. But, i'm not an expert nor am I wonder woman, so i'm honestly stabbing in the dark here lol.

This looks really great, the idea of having a light-bending effect sounds really smart and looks a lot closer to how the original portals looked.

On the topic of portals, the E3 footage doesn’t really have any sound effects in it so I’m curious as to whether the original buzzing and humming sound will be used, or if they’re going with the sound effect from the Eurogamer reveal.

e: You can see the section JG linked on its own here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dNZmbyP5ug

I noticed around the 2:10 mark, Abe walks by a bird portal and the birds don’t fly away.

[JennyGenesis]

Nice find. Yeah I have agree about intro. It looks great aside from a few minor details such as Abe's animation and the boardroom. However I think the intro has been shortened just for the trailer. The AO Intro is pretty long if I recall.

For those who just want to see the intro, it's at 0:37:31

E: I just noticed the other Mudokons don't have ponytails.

Also welcome back.

It's not shortened, it's a direct remake from the intro of the demo version, for me it looked good up until the boardroom scene, that looked awful!

[Manco]

That whole intro looked like it was unfinished – placeholder voiceover, very little lighting effects, they only showed really cropped closeup scenes, they rushed through it and didn’t let people focus on any one thing for too long. You can tell on the Rupturefarms flyover at the beginning that the sign and the factory in the background are flat matte paintings rather than 3D models.

They probably wanted to show part of the opening for the trailer but haven’t fully completed all the assets for the finished version, so they went with what they had. I wouldn’t read too much into it.

[Crashpunk]

So you don't need to worry then. If it was the intro from the Demo. Hopefully the full version will have a longer and improved intro.

I didn't get to talk about the Portals. We are the only community to nitpick about this but I have to agree, I would like to see orange coming back. Mainly for staying true to the original. I also really liked how the portals opened up and the sounds they made. In New N Tasty, they just look like a ring with a cloud of smoke and I can't see them making the same sounds.

I really like V_O_T concept. Enhance that to make an amazing portal effect. I can see the current portal effect with the orbs on top looking quite nice.

As for Abe's face, I do see where people are coming from. He just looks a bit too colourful. I'm not complaining about the model though, All the models look fantastic.

[Hulaabeo]

Regarding to the discussion earlier about how Abe is a little different, the one thing I find off about Abe's face whether it was a trick of the light or not, was his lips. They're whitish and, as I mentioned before...

It looks like he has a mustache.

[Nate]

If you look closely you can see one here, at 0:17 by the broken AC unit or whatever it is that's sparking (Good replacement for an electric barrier, BTW! I wonder if they intend to place more environmental hazards like that).

Oh my. I had to rewatch that five times before I registered where the birds were. I assume it's just a lighting issue, but they definitely need to stand out more.

[Vyrien]

The portals look a bit too fluffy. I'm not so bothered about the orange as I am the dissonance between the cherubic cloud portals and the established grittiness of Oddworld.

[Connell]

Someone should do a side by side comparison of the original demo trailer and the new one to see if people's worries are founded. The Boardroom certainly does look a bit off, though.

I would also hope it's not too late to knock up another design for the portals, really not a fan of the one they're using at the moment. Everything else seems to be looking good though.

[Varrok]

Man... Was that Rupture Farms in the background of the very first scene just a flat image? D: Oh god.

for me it looked good up until the boardroom scene, that looked awful!

Yes, I kind of agree. If that custcene's going to be final (considering JAW shows the work they're proud of)... it's horrible, and no one should imply that I'm being too harsh now. It plain sucks. I can't even tell if that's because of the lightning or something else too.

That whole intro looked like it was unfinished – placeholder voiceover, very little lighting effects, they only showed really cropped closeup scenes, they rushed through it and didn’t let people focus on any one thing for too long. You can tell on the Rupturefarms flyover at the beginning that the sign and the factory in the background are flat matte paintings rather than 3D models.

They probably wanted to show part of the opening for the trailer but haven’t fully completed all the assets for the finished version, so they went with what they had. I wouldn’t read too much into it.

I really really hope so.

Oh, and the portals are quite bad. I do understand the idea of making them blue so they differ much from dark, industrial RF theme... but it simply doesn't work

I don't get how they managed to make jumps look *even weirder* than before.


EDIT:

This is the best thing from the trailer.

[Crashpunk]

Someone should do a side by side comparison of the original demo trailer and the new one to see if people's worries are founded.

Done.

[Varrok]

It makes me want to buy the original again

[Crashpunk]

It makes me want to buy the original again

You don't own it! Some Oddworld fan YOU are!

[Varrok]

again

Um.

[Crashpunk]

Oh I assumed you meant you don't own it anymore, and the trailer makes you want to buy it again. Nevermind!

Anyway, I think the new intro does a great job relating back to the original. The boardroom does look really unfinished though.

[V_O_T]

I'd buy it again. I plan on buying a few copies of New 'n Tasty just to give out to random people. I'll make a thread about it here as well as some other places if you guys are interested in some free video games. It'll be around the release day/when we can pre-order it through steam or if they do it through their site, so be on the look out