Wikileaks -

STM · #**181** 12-13-2010, 09:15 AM

Hmm, well I think he is but then again, you need to read the Old Testament what with the flooding and the burning and the taking of Jerusalem.

And God does save people from death, he brings the dead back to life for eternity, I suppose he needs to be worshipped by everyone because he created everyone however you believe in creation and therefore he deserves no less. God isn't exactly arrogant, perhaps jealous, yes in fact jealous, as it is written in Exodus 20:4-5 but then so is every human, when God is jealous he is zealous however, in protecting what he loves, which is us, and by turning away from him you tread down a path or ruin and immorality.

The whole heathen thing, was a joke hence the post-modifier XD...I don't think I've ever sounded more preachy but I assure you, I am not trying to preach to you to change your ways or anything, I merely pointing things out, I hope you don't take my argument the wrong way Oddhunter.

shaman · #**182** 12-13-2010, 09:18 AM

:

And God does save people from death, he brings the dead back to life for eternity, I suppose he needs to be worshipped by everyone because he created everyone however you believe in creation and therefore he deserves no less. God isn't exactly arrogant, perhaps jealous, yes in fact jealous, as it is written in Exodus 20:4-5 but then so is every human, when God is jealous he is zealous however, in protecting what he loves, which is us, and by turning away from him you tread down a path or ruin and immorality.
.

Well thanks for clearing all tht up for us, we wondered. <.<

STM · #**183** 12-13-2010, 09:22 AM

Tl;dr? Or just a spout of rubbish?

shaman · #**184** 12-13-2010, 09:23 AM

I couldn't be bothered to say anything intelligent. But gave way to my dickheadery and just had to say something.

Ridg3 · #**185** 12-13-2010, 09:26 AM

God loves us all, right? If he loves us all then why does he not allow everyone in Heaven. God is all knowing? If he was all knowing, shouldn't he have known what would unfold by giving us free will?

To be honest, I don't believe in God but if he does exist, show me where he is so I can punch him in the face for being such a selfish and needy cunt.

Wings of Fire · #**186** 12-13-2010, 09:34 AM

He did know what would unfold. Having freedom is a greater good than mindless obedience.

STM · #**187** 12-13-2010, 10:09 AM

I think giving us freedom was his greatest good and his greatest intelligence, it proves this, God is all knowing but he rarely meddles in our lives. If you do something stupid it's your own fucking fault. People say to me, how can you believe in a God that allows starvation in Africa, I simply reply, ask people like McGarvey not me, not God.

Ridg3 · #**188** 12-13-2010, 10:13 AM

So... him giving us free will gave us the opportunity to cause misery? I don't see how that isn't his fault seeing as he knew that this would happen.

Ironic though, we have free will yet our lives our already written in stone.

OANST · #**189** 12-13-2010, 10:20 AM

:

God loves us all, right?

You haven't heard?

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

Manco · #**190** 12-13-2010, 11:14 AM

Can I bring the paradox of the stone into this discussion?

STM · #**191** 12-13-2010, 11:16 AM

You can but then I will quote C.S. Lewis: "When talking about omnipotence, referencing "a rock so heavy that God cannot lift it" is nonsense just as much as referencing "a square circle." So asking "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it?" is just as much nonsense as asking "Can God draw a square circle?" Therefore the question (and therefore the perceived paradox) is meaningless. Nonsense does not suddenly acquire sense and meaning with the addition of the two words, "God can" before it."

Wings of Fire · #**192** 12-13-2010, 11:30 AM

:

So... him giving us free will gave us the opportunity to cause misery? I don't see how that isn't his fault seeing as he knew that this would happen.

Better Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied.

Having free will is better than any other kind of happiness because it's the opportunity to create our own happiness.

Bullet Magnet · #**193** 12-13-2010, 12:41 PM

The more we learn about the brain, the less free will seems to be applicable. At least not in the sense we all think of. My personal suspicion is that there is free will but we are completely wrong about what that entails.

I've lost the reference now, it was probably a book in a shop I hadn't bought, but it was about fellow with a vested ideological interest in scientifically proving free will, so he delved deep into neurology. Naturally, he was horrified to discover that on the nervous level, the brain is gearing up and well into performing an action quite a bit of time in advance of the owner experiencing the actual decision to perform that action in the first place.

Our desire to act appears to lag behind the act itself.

OANST · #**194** 12-13-2010, 12:45 PM

You were destined to write that.

STM · #**195** 12-13-2010, 12:49 PM

That's really interesting actually, do you mean our subconsciousness directs us to perform an act before we actually want to do it?

Wings of Fire · #**196** 12-13-2010, 01:03 PM

Confirmed as something I learnt last year.

shaman · #**197** 12-13-2010, 01:11 PM

But what influences the subconcious to direct us to perform those acts?

OANST · #**198** 12-13-2010, 01:14 PM

Jesus.

STM · #**199** 12-13-2010, 01:19 PM

Hur hur

shaman · #**200** 12-13-2010, 01:20 PM

Prehaps free will exists in out ability to choose whether or not to indulge in such desires. Even if the desires themselves are beyond our control.

I now claim my "That's deep shit" scout badge.

STM · #**201** 12-13-2010, 01:21 PM

Wo, dude that is like, really true man! I actually had to re-read it to make sense of it

OANST · #**202** 12-13-2010, 01:27 PM

:

Prehaps free will exists in out ability to choose whether or not to indulge in such desires. Even if the desires themselves are beyond our control.

I now claim my "That's deep shit" scout badge.

Give it back.

Bullet Magnet · #**203** 12-13-2010, 01:27 PM

:

But what influences the subconcious to direct us to perform those acts?

We have a great deal of sensory data input 24/7 to deal with. The way we do so so dependant upon the way your brain is working. So there are genetic and developmental factors there, but also learned behaviours. We remember the past and the result of past actions, and these direct us.

The most fascinating observational studies are of individuals (of any species) in which this direction breaks down. Usually do to stress under a unique circumstance. Lots of opposing choices and the individual ends up doing something quite inappropriate for the circumstance. Grooming, for instance.

:

Prehaps free will exists in out ability to choose whether or not to indulge in such desires. Even if the desires themselves are beyond our control.

That's the classical idea of free will. What I'm talking about is the choices themselves. When I say "desire" I mean the sensation of making the decision to act.

shaman · #**204** 12-13-2010, 01:30 PM

I wish i'd taken Psychology.

Wings of Fire · #**205** 12-13-2010, 01:35 PM

You don't. It's not this interesting most of the time.

Manco · #**206** 12-13-2010, 02:57 PM

:

You can but then I will quote C.S. Lewis: "When talking about omnipotence, referencing "a rock so heavy that God cannot lift it" is nonsense just as much as referencing "a square circle." So asking "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it?" is just as much nonsense as asking "Can God draw a square circle?" Therefore the question (and therefore the perceived paradox) is meaningless. Nonsense does not suddenly acquire sense and meaning with the addition of the two words, "God can" before it."

"This, however, is an argument against a different statement, namely, doing something that is not even defined. There is no such thing as a square circle, even conceptually. But the notion of something so heavy (or creating said thing) that one could not lift it, is not illogical."

I can quote Wikipedia just as easily as you can.

mr.odd · #**207** 12-13-2010, 09:41 PM

So... How bout that Wikileaks? Pretty crazy right?

T-nex · #**208** 12-13-2010, 10:18 PM

I think the rape claims were fake!

Phylum · #**209** 12-13-2010, 10:31 PM

They just wanted him behind bars.

***Nate*** · #**210** 12-14-2010, 01:34 AM

I'm told that in Sweden, having sex without a condom and later refusing a blood test for STIs counts as rape. So by that standard, he may well have committed rape.

On the other hand, it seems like the accusations against him have changed several times since they were first announced. Either there's some dodginess going on, or the reportage has been suspect - both seem equally likely to me.