Abe HD Ideas

[SpAM_CAN]

I'm just glad that AE took out the damn things, I hated how they would deviate from their path... even if they would have fit the mine scenario quite well.

Actually, one thing about AE that I've noticed is the lack of any real lighting in many of the areas. Everything is quite flatly lit, whereas AO has real contrasts of lighting. Makes it easier to play on the PSP mind you, but still.

Ooh, I had an idea - please have a blue outline around Abe when he is in shadows. I hate not being able to see where he is and then accidentally stepping out of cover because I thought I still had one space to move. Not to all creatures, just Abe.

[Sekto Springs]

There's a pattern that has to be worked out, but once you get it, avoiding both the bats and the boulders isn't that hard. I can take or leave the bats, but if you do remove them, don't do it because people are bitching about the difficulty. I understand that gamers these days have far less patience, but there still has to be a few white knuckle moments.

[MeechCrunchies]

I've never had a problem with the spike boulders. It was usually the bats. But much like that secret area at the end of Rupture Farms just before entering the FFZ for the first time, it took me quite a while to realize it's much easier to just jump across the gaps. Every time I did the roll and hoist method I'd get clocked by a boulder or a bat would go off course and fuck me up. Jump, duck, jump, duck, jump.

Also, this game and all it's puzzles kind of revolve around timing. If the bats didn't have a set course it would take away the whole timing aspect and you'd just have to hope you were fast enough to make it over those gaps and escape the bats before reaching the next screen. But wait! There isn't a 'next screen' this time around because it's going to be side scrolling. If you find what's currently in place incredibly difficult, the bats not having a set course would amplify that difficulty.

Edit:

Can't you just chant or talk to the slog to get it's attention? Every time I run into a slog and it doesn't respond to walking I just say hello or some shit and it comes chasing at me.

Well there's that too.

Also i think there should be a proper workaround for the bats and the screen scrolling. I really believe the bats should stick around, and the boulders should be reworked to have proper hit boxes this time. The temples really wouldn't feel right without their challenging rooms, in my opinion.

I'm just glad that AE took out the damn things, I hated how they would deviate from their path... even if they would have fit the mine scenario quite well.

Actually, one thing about AE that I've noticed is the lack of any real lighting in many of the areas. Everything is quite flatly lit, whereas AO has real contrasts of lighting. Makes it easier to play on the PSP mind you, but still.

Ooh, I had an idea - please have a blue outline around Abe when he is in shadows. I hate not being able to see where he is and then accidentally stepping out of cover because I thought I still had one space to move. Not to all creatures, just Abe.

I've never had issues with telling where abe was in shadows, simply because once you go in the shadows it's not particularly difficult to either gauge where he is in accordance with how many steps you've taken in the shadows, or you can just wait for a slig to walk by. There's never been a frustrating shadow sequence in my opinion, and I don't really feel that a blue ring around abe would be necessary, as this is just lowering the difficulty of sections that are supposed to feel tense.

[Slog Bait]

You can usually tell where you are in the shadows by looking at the ground. Most of the time there's also an animated shadow on the ground if you or anything else is in the shadow.

[SpAM_CAN]

This was more a thing caused by playing Oddworld on the PSP to be honest, I never found the problem on TV (if there is a Vita version [I don't remember if there is one planned or not] perhaps then add the outline, or have it as an option or something).

[Nepsotic]

I'm just glad that AE took out the damn things, I hated how they would deviate from their path... even if they would have fit the mine scenario quite well.

Actually, one thing about AE that I've noticed is the lack of any real lighting in many of the areas. Everything is quite flatly lit, whereas AO has real contrasts of lighting. Makes it easier to play on the PSP mind you, but still.

Ooh, I had an idea - please have a blue outline around Abe when he is in shadows. I hate not being able to see where he is and then accidentally stepping out of cover because I thought I still had one space to move. Not to all creatures, just Abe.

All this about the bats coming off their paths is bollocks. A bat would only very slightly deviate if you were very close to it.

[Slog Bait]

Actually, I've been attacked by bats without being anywhere near them. Sometimes if you wait too long they'll deviate from their path and kill you.

[SpAM_CAN]

Yeah, what Slogbait says is true. I've hung on the edge of one of the ledges in the swinging boulder section only to have a bat decide 'well, feck this path' and zoom down to bite Abe in the face.

[Nepsotic]

Actually, on one level, a bats actual path is to go down below that ledge, are you sure it wasn't just its designated path? I don't think videogame bots from the 90's have a mind of their own. Its impossible. Its like you're suggesting rogue AI or something, because thats basically what you're saying.

[SpAM_CAN]

I'm next to certain that they are programmed to deviate from that path and go to the player in certain circumstances. Lets face it, the ALIVE engine is bloody buggy, especially in AO, so it is very possible that the detection for these circumstances is a tad off.

[pupbenny]

In some ways it's good when it's "buggy".

[Nepsotic]

I'm next to certain that they are programmed to deviate from that path and go to the player in certain circumstances. Lets face it, the ALIVE engine is bloody buggy, especially in AO, so it is very possible that the detection for these circumstances is a tad off.

But it doesn't mean they can go rogue. Yes they can be programmed to go to the player,but I don't think they are, and its never happened to me.

[Scrabaniac]

I'm not too sure on bats, they do add a fair amount of difficulty to the game and the boulders would be okay without the bats, I think the case would just be a bad combination, also the AI back then must have either been buggy or specifically programmed as bats can actually kill Paramites and scrabs even though they are never in the same screen, unless moved by a cheat or something

[Nepsotic]

I'm not too sure on bats, they do add a fair amount of difficulty to the game and the boulders would be okay without the bats, I think the case would just be a bad combination, also the AI back then must have either been buggy or specifically programmed as bats can actually kill Paramites and scrabs even though they are never in the same screen, unless moved by a cheat or something

Please don't say AI. Because they're not, they're bots, AI doesn't exist.

[Scrabaniac]

Fair enough then, *also the BOTS back then....*

[SpAM_CAN]

I wouldn't say its rogue AI, but if there is a call in their programming to go straight for the player, it is very possible that this call could be triggered due to buggy code. Hell, the AO version of ALIVE (at least on the PS1) was riddled with bugs. For instance, if you are running as a Slig and change direction (to skid) on a ledge, you will do the fall animation and stop in your tracks. Also, there are a few screens where the mask for the CAM foreground has an object that isn't on the CAM image, making Abe invisible partially. Then you have bugs that cause the game to crash, or Abe to randomly fall into a totally different screen that shouldn't be accessible... Yeah. Lots. But the thing is, while these were fixed in AE, these are things that almost certainly won't be an issue in the remake, especially if it is based upon an established engine that already has its own AI scripts and language.

EDIT: AI can be used as a generic game design term for NPC behaviour.

[Nepsotic]

How do you know that bats can kill paramites? Did you use the cheat?

Ooh! Does a scrab kill a paramite? Who would win?

[Scrabaniac]

Funny enough scrabs don't kill Paramites, sligs or slogs.

[SpAM_CAN]

Why would they bother writing behaviour for that if it were never going to occur in the game? :P

[Nepsotic]

They did it with the bats, apparently.

[JennyGenesis]

The programming of the bats was probably to kill everything, I don't see why they would bother programming everything separately.

Same with the bees, the bees kill paramites, the bees can even kill Sligs, but no part of the game requires you to kill Sligs with bees.

[MeechMunchie]

Artificial Difficulty makes the player do the same thing over and over for reasons other than being "hard" or "challenging", such as requiring excessive trial and error, requiring an absurd amount of score, lack of sufficient check points, etc.

So something tht should be incredibly easy, made hard for no other reason.

Something that is hard due to poor design rather than being a fun challenge.

I know what artificial difficulty is. It's difficulty that isn't legitimate as it can't be countered by player skill. I just reject the claim that it isn't really "hard". If anything, it's harder than difficulty by design.

Anyway, running into a boulder that looks far enough away is a mistake you should only make once. Like with meat saws, a good player will learn to gauge when it's possible to get past, and when it isn't.

As for the bats:
I never said they should move randomly.
I never said they should be drawn to the player.
I never said they should be removed altogether.

I just don't think they should be bats.

A real (predatory Oddworld) bat would move randomly and would attack the player. We just need some equivalent of mines that isn't completely incongruous with the temple setting. No, I don't know what that could be, besides spiritually hovering rocks.

[JennyGenesis]

A real (predatory Oddworld) bat would move randomly and would attack the player. We just need some equivalent of mines that isn't completely incongruous with the temple setting. No, I don't know what that could be, besides spiritually hovering rocks.

I think your thinking a little too much about this now, I'm thinking more about gameplay elements and being fair to player instead of "what an Oddworld creature would do".

Sure some things don't make sense in terms of "the universe" but they are fair in terms of making up the gameplay.

[MeechMunchie]

For God's sake, I'M NOT SAYING JAW SHOULD FIX THE BATS. I'M SAYING THEY SHOULD REPLACE THE SPRITES.

[Scrabaniac]

You would be happy to know that Abe HD will not use sprites.

[Jordan]

I understand what you're saying MM. Perhaps the bats could be replaced by evil versions of the fireflies that you use to spell out messages with chanting. The fireflies could hit Abe and set him on fire, causing him to fall off the ledge.

[Scrabaniac]

I think abe on fire would be too comical, I would have suggested spiders that crawl on the face of the rocks but Paramites are already oddworld's spider like species

[JennyGenesis]

Maybe an answer to what those glowing eyes were in the holes on the temple would be nice.

[Slog Bait]

I think abe on fire would be too comical, I would have suggested spiders that crawl on the face of the rocks but Paramites are already oddworld's spider like species

You forgot bolamites!

Maybe instead of giant swinging rocks they can be MASSIVE PILLARS that shoot out of the ground and squish you on the ceiling. Like those pillars in that shitty Mortal Kombat game about Subzero nobody played because it was so shitty.

[skychase2rebirth]

I think abe on fire would be too comical, I would have suggested spiders that crawl on the face of the rocks but Paramites are already oddworld's spider like species

http://oddworld.wikia.com/wiki/Bolamite

^^