Thread of morbidity.

[Bullet Magnet]

That's fair, but the point stands that if you value your own life less than non-existence, and your personal strife isn't particularly significant, then you're a bit of a shithead.

They're not shitheads, they're sick. No one decides that nothings matters to them anymore, it's thrust upon them, sometimes as a result of events that make the reaction somewhat understandable, and sometimes for no discernible reason at all. When all the things (an there are many) that previously made your life worthwhile no longer have any effect on you, ipso-facto life loses its value.

[MA]

I hate this thread. It bores me.

same. i try to avoid it but always end up reading it anyway.

[Wings of Fire]

They're not shitheads, they're sick. No one decides that nothings matters to them anymore, it's thrust upon them, sometimes as a result of events that make the reaction somewhat understandable, and sometimes for no discernible reason at all. When all the things (an there are many) that previously made your life worthwhile no longer have any effect on you, ipso-facto life loses its value.

I was going to make this argument, but I feel than clinical depression counts under 'personal strife'. So yeah.

[OANST]

I'm staying way out of this aspect of the conversation.

[STM]

Understandable, although your position would be more insightful than anything most other people could say. Hope that doesn't sound rude.

Life intrinsically has value. It's not so much of a gift - the way I see it - so much as it's a lucky series of accidents that has led eventually, to us being here, so...may as well make the most of it. So long as you do what makes you happy, if you are terribly upset, beyond reconciliation, for an extended amount of time, and your death doesn't negatively impact anyone else's life, then there should be a way of legally terminating your own life.

[Sekto Springs]

Contrary to the strong opinions I have on the intrinsic value of life, I do believe that people should be free to end themselves if they truly wish it. That is, of course, if their reasoning is sound and they aren't just acting out of hurt.

[Varrok]

I've never heard of anyone who does both will to die and sound reasonable. People don't want to die if they're happy.

[Sekto Springs]

That's not what I meant. What I mean is, if they have a valid reason for wanting to die other than "I am currently sad at this moment". More like a long-term, inconsolable sadness. An example would be those suffering from a debilitating illness where there's no chance of recovery, or someone who has lost everyone and every thing dear to them.

That is not to say that I don't think they should seek out help first, and examine every other option before even considering suicide, but I don't like that suicide is illegal, even as an "unwritten" law.

[Manco]

That's not what I meant. What I mean is, if they have a valid reason for wanting to die other than "I am currently sad at this moment".

People don’t kill themselves because “oh I feel sad this afternoon” – or if they do, there’s a bigger underlying problem.

[T-nex]

I just think condemning people for feeling sad, even if its over small shit, makes no sense. Who decides what objectively is a 'sound' reason to feel sad?
Starving, poor people would look at all of us in disgust when we complain over first world problems.

There's no objective truth to anything other than facts. So that means that people are free to whine over whatever they please. If people are going to avoid them over it, then hopefully they learn to behave within society's context.

Either ways, I think when people say that whatever comes after life must be better, its because we all want more. It's wishful thinking.. Just like religion's heaven and whatnot.
When I was little I dreamt of death because I thought there would be dragons, and monsters and unicorns and people who can fly. I think many people think it's the doorway to a magical land where was more interesting shit happens than what we have right now.

But most likely we'll just seize to exist boring.

[Sekto Springs]

People don’t kill themselves because “oh I feel sad this afternoon” – or if they do, there’s a bigger underlying problem.

No shit, Sherlock.
What I meant was there are countless cases of people (especially teenagers) who kill themselves because they're acting irrationally out of fleeting emotion.

[Manco]

Really? Where?

[Sekto Springs]

Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death in the US for people between the ages of 25-30. Statistics show that people kill themselves due widely to depression, unemployment, or substance abuse; three increasingly common problems that are perfectly treatable (though not necessarily easy).

I wrote a paper on suicide for school some years ago, and a thought I had consistently while doing the research was "all they needed was a little guidance".

[Varrok]

I agree with Manco here.

[OANST]

Who the hell is Manco?

[Sekto Springs]

I agree with Manco here.

On what exactly?

[Varrok]

I'm not really sure who he is, but I think he's right about that underlying problem (I haven't noticed there are more posts below when I wrote that last post)

[Sekto Springs]

I'm not really sure who he is, but I think he's right about that underlying problem (I haven't noticed there are more posts below when I wrote that last post)

Of course there are underlying problems. That goes without saying, but it's in those moments where you feel especially sad and vulnerable that you go from bad to worse, or from worse to worst. As someone who has dealt with depression for years, and attempted suicide, I know how it feels.

No, you don't just decide to put a bullet through your brain when you get up on the wrong side of the bed - but - if you're already depressed, it is those fleeting moments that push you over the edge. All it takes is one bad day.

[T-nex]

What is even discussed anymore? Yes suicide happens, and yes it's irrational, cos mostly that's what suicide is. But what about all this makes someone a shithead? I think that's the point.

Other than the emoes who knowingly complain about nothing.

[Sekto Springs]

The conversation shifted gears since then. I was saying people who aren't enduring significant personal strife who don't value life are shitheads. Then STM mentioned suicide, so here we are.

[Manco]

No shit, Sherlock.
What I meant was there are countless cases of people (especially teenagers) who kill themselves because they're acting irrationally out of fleeting emotion.

Of course there are underlying problems. That goes without saying, but it's in those moments where you feel especially sad and vulnerable that you go from bad to worse, or from worse to worst. As someone who has dealt with depression for years, and attempted suicide, I know how it feels.

No, you don't just decide to put a bullet through your brain when you get up on the wrong side of the bed - but - if you're already depressed, it is those fleeting moments that push you over the edge. All it takes is one bad day.

I don’t think it’s right to label these cases as “fleeting emotion”; they require underlying issues, or a slow buildup which culminates in that one moment.

A moment of weakness is significantly different from a prolonged wearing down of defenses.

[Sekto Springs]

A moment of weakness is significantly different from a prolonged wearing down of defenses.

Again, you seem to think I meant that people just up and kill themselves over something like stubbing their toe or dropping their phone in the toilet without the presence of underlying issues.

We keep talking in circles here, so I'm just going to lay it out.

A person's actions in those fleeting moments of weakness or irrationality are what define their level of depression. The straw that breaks the camels back, the final grain of sand on the scale. It could be something as minor as cutting yourself shaving to something as significant as having your ribs broken by the school bully, and everything in between. But it is still fleeting and based in emotional instability, because if you don't act on those moments, you find that those moments heal.

That's not to say that all suicides are committed brashly and without thought. I've known people (who were quite close to me, in fact) who had carefully orchestrated how they would do it long in advanced, should the need arise.

But generally speaking, to kill oneself goes against all of our programmed survival mechanisms. You would have to be acting irrationally; you don't care if it's wrong to kill yourself, and you don't care if the reason you're doing it is fucking stupid. About a third of all suicide victims are also inebriated at the time, which impairs one's ability to rationalize an emotional situation even more.

Like I said, all it takes is one bad day, one transitory event. The kinds of things that a healthy-minded individual would shrug off can be potentially lethal to those who are already in pain. It is because they are in pain that those fleeting moments feel like they are going to last forever.

[Mac Sirloin]

Hey Manco can you actually read Sekto's post this time? I've been spectating a bit (hate these threads) and you guys are not having the same conversation. Not being a dick, I am making a point.



If there is life after death, and I really don't think speculating about whether there is or not does anything, I will be happy with that fact. I don't believe in hell. I think eternal punishment for 100< years of possible fuckwaddery is just dumb. Not that picturing Peter Popoff or Dick Cheney getting tortured in a kabillion different ways doesn't relieve my bloodlust a little, but the concept is very odd to me.
Can't say I necessarily believe in Heaven, either. I believe in God, or a god, but whatever It wants to get up to off in some distant plane isn't my business and I'm in no position to give a damn anyway. I like to think that God's an engine, and souls are the fuel. But the more angry and hateful and murderous we are, the more stagnant that fuel can be. Worse, if you just overfill the tank then you have a potential gas station explosion to concern yourself with.

I don't think I care what you believe in (except Wiccans, Satanists and Mormons) but pretty much any divergent Fundy group in ANY conglomeration pisses me off. Atheists are annoying, but the real militant thing is just a phase that will pass. My biggest grief right about now is infighting and finger pointing between different denominations of Christianity. God didn't want this.

[Dixanadu]

Again, you seem to think I meant that people just up and kill themselves over something like stubbing their toe or dropping their phone in the toilet without the presence of underlying issues.

I once knew this guy who was never off his phone. He'd use it to text, surf the web and everything, that being said, it was pretty much his only way to communicate with people when being away from them.

He was a jolly fellow, then done day, his phone slipped from his hand and off the escalator we were on, smashed to pieces at the bottom.

He was in a shit mood all day, then I didn't see him at all for about a week. I heard from one of his friends that he had tried to kill himself but didn't explain to her why. He never went through with it though, obviously.

I lost all respect for him after that.

[Manco]

Sorry Sekto, I don’t really disagree with the point you were trying to make, just misinterpreted due to the way you phrased it before. The subject kind of hits close to home, which is probably why.

Hey Manco can you actually read Sekto's post this time? I've been spectating a bit (hate these threads) and you guys are not having the same conversation. Not being a dick, I am making a point.

I didn’t need a lecture from you on top of things.

[OANST]

What about on the bottom? HEEEY-OOOOO

Now, who are you?

[Mac Sirloin]

I didn’t need a lecture from you on top of things.

Again, I get the distinct impression that what you just quoted did not get a full read through. Try again, this time with feeling.

[Manco]

Again, I get the distinct impression that what you just quoted did not get a full read through. Try again, this time with feeling.

What exactly do you fucking want from me? Was apologising to Sekto for misreading his posts not good enough or something? You want an apology as well or some shit?

[OANST]

My dick is so hard right now.

[AlexFili]

Still scared of death but I put that to my young age.
I think there must be "something". Otherwise ghostly phenomenon would simply not exist. Like all stories about UFOs, Dragons etc, there must be some truth, no matter how far removed from reality.