Abe HD Ideas

[enchilado]

Don't like the idea. Don't use it.

But would I be able to resist if it was there? Maybe if there was an Easy Mode... but anyway, I think we've discussed this before.

So you enjoyed playing the same area a hundred million times over before getting right?

Not particularly, but it's better than the game being easy as fuck like Exoddus.

[Sekto Springs]

I dont think quicksave made Exoddus easy as fuck, it just made it less of a headache.

[Jordan]

There needs to be a half-way point in between Exoddus and Oddysee. To me, AE is quite easy because of the Quiksave, but it leads to me abusing it. However, I get frustrated with AO because of the constant need to repeat things if you fuck up.

[JennyGenesis]

I understand your point Jordan, but I don't think quiksave makes the game "easier" since you are not actually changing anything, it just makes it less frustrating.

The part in AO which makes me beg for quiksave the most is when elum is eating the honey in Paramonia and you need to switch off the UXB, if you die, then you have to go through the process of whilstling to the mudokon and blowing up the slig etc all over again!

I think Gamespot's verdict on AE perfectly sums it up

If you hated the first one, it's likely because of the lack of save points, so you should definitely consider giving this series another try.

[Sekto Springs]

Perhaps screen-by-screen checkpoints?
Path checkpoints can prove exhaustive because some of the paths are very long and complex. But honestly, quicksave in AE didn't take anything away from the experience for me. I still died plenty of times, and there were more than a few moments where I was damn glad that I had quicksaved one or two screens prior.

Quicksave also made it less unbearable to get perfect quarma. Many of the path checkpoints in AO did not include the secret areas. So not only did you have to do the secret area over again, but had to make the effort to get to it.

[DarkHoodness]

Though that particular event could be realized, it was ulimately agreed that it was far too "deus ex machina" and would pretty much change the entire history between the Glukkons and Mudokons.

I wasn't talking about that particular idea - Even though it would be a cool visual, I agree with you that it would change parts of the lore that are already established.

But it's as I said, that made me wonder what other planned features were canned during production of the original game that could re-surface in Abe HD. Maybe that's something Nate should have asked Lorne.

Blah, too late to suggest that as a question now after I finally think of a good one. :P Sod's law has failed me yet again.

[Sekto Springs]

Luskan Raiders, anyone?

[Glitch]

Perhaps screen-by-screen checkpoints

I don't think they would be a good idea; there's a number of situations where you can get move between screens and have no chance of survival once on the other side. Also, I don't that would handle too well if there's a mudoken following you.

Thinking about it, if it's saving after every transition, how is that functionaly different to quicksaving at the start of every screen? It's easier than quicksave because you don't have to even choose the quicksave button.

Perhaps we could implement an Old School mode that removes quicksave and the use of "All 'a' ya'!". Or we could just let the player decide when starting a new game which of the new features they want in this playthrough, that way they won't be tempted to go turn autosaves back on if stuff get's too difficult.

[Phylum]

I say keep "All 'a' ya!" because moving muds one by one is really tiresome. You ought to include an easy/hard mode with/without quicksave. I think that's the best way to please everyone.

[enchilado]

Or we could just let the player decide when starting a new game which of the new features they want in this playthrough, that way they won't be tempted to go turn autosaves back on if stuff get's too difficult.

Please.

Also, "All a' ya!" would likely make some puzzles easier - would it be too complex or counter-intuitive if some Mudokons would only follow you one at a time and some would come in groups?

[Wil]

Thing with "All o' ya" is that it's obviously annoying and counter-intuitive that you can't have more than one Mudokon following you at once, but the puzzles are actually built around that.

Yes, there's tedium in the first level because you have to go back and forth getting Muds to bird portals, and it would be preferable to eliminate that. But thinking about some secret areas where you have to repeat a journey two or three times, that's what the challenge is. Maybe those levels can be reworked so that logically Abe still has to make as many dangerous dashes.

[Phylum]

The scrab run in the stockyards secret area could be 3 times as long!

[AvengingGibbons]

Maybe when necessary, make it so that only one mudokon is willing to follow Abe, and then once one is saved, the other reluctant mudokon sees that his friend is saved, so he then will follow Abe. (If you're thinking 'How will the mudokon know that the willing one has been saved successfully when the bird portal is many screens away?, then, maybe Abe can say something like 'Who's next?' rather than 'Hello' when he returns to that screen for the unwilling mudokon).

When Abe first say's All 'a' ya, all the mudokons could respond, but when Abe says 'follow me' only one says 'Ok' and the others go 'Nah 'ah'

[Andrelvis]

About QuikSave... I hated it, for the reasons exposed by others (led me to abusing it, quiksaving all the time and etc.). I rather prefer Abe's Oddysee's savepoints, although I would have liked to see more of them around.

[Manco]

then, maybe Abe can say something like 'Who's next?' rather than 'Hello' when he returns to that screen for the unwilling mudokon).

This would make going for the "kill everyone" ending so much more fun.

[elums mum]

I said this a while back but ...
Easy mode = quicksave
Hard mode = no quicksave
Then everybody gets the option to play the game how they want

[Crashpunk]

^ Agreed.

Would hard mode just be hard because it doesn't have Quicksave or will it have hard versions of the screens.

[Phylum]

It would be hard because it wouldn't have quicksave.

[Manco]

I think breaking the game up into different difficulties would detract from the atmosphere a bit – the original games only ever had one path, one set of puzzles, one difficulty. It made the game feel just a little bit more like a real world, rather than a video game.

This isn’t the kind of game where raising the difficulty just gives enemies more health, it would mean different puzzles, and would raise the question of “which difficulty is the real story?”.

I’d say the best solution for Quicksaves would be to handle it like Bioshock handles VitaChambers – an option in the Pause menu. Don’t build an entirely new game just for a different difficulty.

[Phylum]

Maybe you could have limited quicksaves.

Alternately, you could only be allowed quicksaves at certain points, or not inside special areas. It would probably be easier just to rework the checkpoints a bit, though.

[Wil]

This isn’t the kind of game where raising the difficulty just gives enemies more health, it would mean different puzzles, and would raise the question of “which difficulty is the real story?”.

That's already an issue depending on how many Mudokons you rescue. When the Oddworld film comes out it'll be an even bigger issue. Canonicity can be cared about to the detriment of the whole.

[Paul_hibs3]

But would I be able to resist if it was there? Maybe if there was an Easy Mode... but anyway, I think we've discussed this before.



Not particularly, but it's better than the game being easy as fuck like Exoddus.

What complete nonsense. Exoddus was a soild game, if you find that easy then you have high standards.

[AvengingGibbons]

Maybe you could have limited quicksaves.

Alternately, you could only be allowed quicksaves at certain points, or not inside special areas. It would probably be easier just to rework the checkpoints a bit, though.

Maybe Abe has to collect bird seed and once Abe collects 5 bird seeds, he earns a quicksave. He quicksaves by throwing the bird seed on the ground where he wants the bird portal to appear when he gets regenerated.

[Wil]

Then the whole game would suddenly become about collecting bird seed.

[AvengingGibbons]

Then the whole game would suddenly become about collecting bird seed.

Great I hope Glitch likes it too

[elums mum]

^ Agreed.

Would hard mode just be hard because it doesn't have Quicksave or will it have hard versions of the screens.

I was thinking the games maps would be the same on both versions and they would all be the same difficulty, just with quicksaves on easy and then none on hard

It just seems like something that would be pretty easy and quick to implement.

[Crashpunk]

You could have Sligs react a lot more quicker so you have to get the timing even more right.

[Havoc]

Maybe Abe has to collect bird seed and once Abe collects 5 bird seeds, he earns a quicksave. He quicksaves by throwing the bird seed on the ground where he wants the bird portal to appear when he gets regenerated.

I don't think this is a bad idea, actually. It strikes a nice balance between no quicksave and constant quicksaves. Instead you just have a limited amount of quicksaves, depending on your efforts in actually saving everyone or just the ones you need to carry on. In a way it could give some more incentive to rescue hard to reach mudokons in secret areas and the like.

Maybe bird seed is not the way but concept isn't bad.

[AvengingGibbons]

I don't think this is a bad idea, actually. It strikes a nice balance between no quicksave and constant quicksaves. Instead you just have a limited amount of quicksaves, depending on your efforts in actually saving everyone or just the ones you need to carry on. In a way it could give some more incentive to rescue hard to reach mudokons in secret areas and the like.

Maybe bird seed is not the way but concept isn't bad.

I was half joking, half serious. But I think they shouldn't do quicksave. Instead, they should use checkpoints in well thought-out locations. I've just had a new idea this second: Have birds resting on the ground at the checkpoint locations, and when Abe walks past them, they fly off and the checkpoint has been passed.

Another idea: Give the player the option to quicksave at set points in the level (these points should be safe points where Abe is in no immediate danger). By taking away the players option to quicksave at any time, they cannot cheat by saving the game half way through a complicated puzzle. Instead, they will be given the option to quicksave in a predefined quicksaving checkpoint before the puzzle, and after completing the puzzle (or more appropriately, upon encountering the next puzzle). For example, in Abe's Exodus, you might have a series of screens that have lots of drills that the player has to dodge through. As the player enters the first screen, a message appears on the screen saying something like 'press SELECT to quicksave!'. As the player walks on past the spot the quicksave option becomes unavailable. The player must then get through the three screens before coming across another quicksaving checkpoint. The player may choose not to quicksave.

[Varrok]

So you enjoyed playing the same area a hundred million times over before getting right? Have fun with that.

I enjoy hard games, when you must do something absolutely perfect to go further Quicksave sucks.

Or we could just let the player decide when starting a new game which of the new features they want in this playthrough, that way they won't be tempted to go turn autosaves back on if stuff get's too difficult.

I think it's the best solution :P