Abe HD Ideas

[Michael]

Agreed again. I remember playing AE, being right at the end with the countdown going, really hoping all of the mudokons I still needed were there to rescue before I finished the game. They were, but keeping track was difficult.

I agree with what Bullet Magnet said- wondering whether or not to go through a 'no return' door because it wasn't clear if the last mudokon was missed or still to come was a little frustrating!

Then again, keeping track was hard but do-able. Having the extra info on the screens would make saving all 99 (or 300 in AE) easier. I've always liked the fact it was difficult to rescue all of them. Makes it more rewarding when you finally succeed!

[Sekto Springs]

I would always save before going through a door marked no return. Just a good habit to get into. It has to be a proper save though, as a Quiksave file is supplanted by the new path.

[Nate]

I'd prefer it if they took out the No Return in AE-HD. I liked being able to backtrack through large sections of Rupturefarms and other levels.

And (not entirely related, but I feel like ranting) I really hated the artificial no-returning in Stranger's Wrath, where you were regularly forced to jump down a long drop or go through a one-way door as your proceeded through a level. I would have preferred it if I was able to backtrack to where I remembered seeing a good supply of live ammo, rather than being forced onwards with empty clips.

[Crashpunk]

Okay here is my idea that started after I remembered what Abe said during the Good Ending of Abe's Exoddus

-"But we knew they must be more of us out there, and we're gunna find them!"

I was thinking of unlockable stages after you completed AEHD where Abe re-visits the locations he had been before like The Mines, Slig Barracks, Bonewerkz, FeeCo, The Brewery, and maybe even Rupture Farms but different parts of them where Mudokons may still be enslaved or trapped? Unsure when Munch's Oddysee (if it's straight after, this idea is fucked) The stages could be set between AE and MO.
Since all the places have been shut down, the places could be overrun with escaped creatures (Scrab, Paramites, Slogs), The environment could be decaying, (I was thinking of a destoryed FeeCo train overgrown with plantlife and broken machinery) and could also contain Sligs who have no order and still have Mudokons as slaves for there own needs.

These stages could be really difficult as well. I mean insanely difficult. Adds more replay after you've finished AE and take full advantage of the brilliant gameplay Oddworld has.

And I think we all want to re-visit the amazing locations in AO/AE don't we?

[DarkHoodness]

Maybe that's some ideas for DLC or bonus levels - I wouldn't include stuff like that in the main games if I were JAW though. That'd just increase production time.

[JennyGenesis]

Considering the Brewery was destroyed by an explosion could Abe really just wander inside? and assuming there are still Mudokons there, surely they would have been killed in the explosion.

But I like the concept of the idea.

[Wil]

I don't get this whole obsession with going back to places. You've already been there. And everything either escaped or died. Wouldn't you rather see new places which have characters in?

[JennyGenesis]

Well I thought it was rather interesting to see the mines destroyed when you went back into them.

[Sekto Springs]

And (not entirely related, but I feel like ranting) I really hated the artificial no-returning in Stranger's Wrath, where you were regularly forced to jump down a long drop or go through a one-way door as your proceeded through a level. I would have preferred it if I was able to backtrack to where I remembered seeing a good supply of live ammo, rather than being forced onwards with empty clips.

This was especially annoying when you were about to fight Elboze Freely. He had a huge gang, and there wasn't a shit-ton of ammo near his arena. The first time I fought him, I got fucking pummeled because the only ammo that I had left was completely non offensive, like Chippunkz. It's a good thing he's relatively easy to whittle down with Zappflies, or I'd probably be stuck on that fight to this day.

I don't get this whole obsession with going back to places. You've already been there. And everything either escaped or died. Wouldn't you rather see new places which have characters in?

Wil, for shame. You should know games like Oddworld aren't meant to just be plowed through in a straight line. I think all games, especially ones with hidden challenges and gorgeous scenery, should be explored as freely as programming will permit. Even looking at it from a linear perspective, there's no good reason in my mind to make previous paths totally off-limits.

Take a page from the first Rayman game; you couldn't progress to the final level until you rescued all of the Electoons. You had to be able to revisit previous levels so you could find them all. Obviously, you can't do that in Oddworld, but you should at least allow the player a chance at perfect Quarma without being prevented by something as stupid as "whoops cant go back, door closed".

Well I thought it was rather interesting to see the mines destroyed when you went back into them.

Agreed. Even if you couldn't explore much, it was a nice little touch.

[Manco]

Wil, for shame. You should know games like Oddworld aren't meant to just be plowed through in a straight line. I think all games, especially ones with hidden challenges and gorgeous scenery, should be explored as freely as programming will permit. Even looking at it from a linear perspective, there's no good reason in my mind to make previous paths totally off-limits.

Take a page from the first Rayman game; you couldn't progress to the final level until you rescued all of the Electoons. You had to be able to revisit previous levels so you could find them all. Obviously, you can't do that in Oddworld, but you should at least allow the player a chance at perfect Quarma without being prevented by something as stupid as "whoops cant go back, door closed".

I think that’s a fairly narrow way of looking at things. The possibility of revisiting areas has a major effect on the pacing and flow of a game, especially one which relies strongly on a storyline and a grounding in realism.

For your example, backtracking works for Rayman because it’s a non-serious, cartoony kind of game. The levels are relatively short and mainly focus on platforming, and the world is broken up into levels which can be navigated around quickly via an overworld map.

The reverse is true for AO/AE. The story is linear, serious and has a fairly dark streak through it, with a focus on moral choices and Abe’s personal journey. The divide between levels is often muddied but they are typically fairly involved, and focus on navigating around friendly and enemy NPCs as well as traps and hazards. The overall game world is treated as a single flowing journey to match the plot, as Abe visits each area without intending to return, sometimes even closing down or outright destroying locations.

AO and AE simply do not lend themselves to backtracking, not without some serious structural changes.

[TheMooseLord]

Sorry if abit late, but for the abe chanting debate.

How about at the start of the game the bird portals seem unstable. Take longer to open/birds fluctuate/close more violently like abe doesn't really know what he's doing?
Then after mosaic lines have the opening of bird portals more streamline and efficient?

[Manco]

That sounds pretty cool actually, I’m a big fan of subtle touches like that.

[Varrok]

I imagine a bird portal closing too early and cutting a mudokon in half. Implement that.

[Havoc]

[Michael]

I like that idea! The first portal you encounter could be treated as a tutorial and could take several attempts to properly open. For example, the first time the portal almost opens, but fizzles out. The second time, it opens and soon closes. then, the third time, it opens but it's size fluctuates and the edges wobble (in 2.5D i'm assuming the portals would be seen as ovals and not just 'lines' like in AO and AE if you know what I mean).

Abe could also show some physical reaction, like when the portal abruptly closes he is knocked down by whatever force or energy he is tapping into, like when he is zapped by a chant suppressor- maybe with a zap of that crackly electric portal stuff for good measure

[Varrok]

It most probably won't happen. JAW wants to stick to the original and that is a big change to game core mechanics... to be honest I'm 100% ok with JAW's decision

[DarkHoodness]

@Micheal - Cool as that would look, it would confuse new players unless they were told directly that they had to save mudokons.

[Havoc]

It most probably won't happen. JAW wants to stick to the original and that is a big change to game core mechanics... to be honest I'm 100% ok with JAW's decision

I think it would truly be a lost opportunity if Abe HD is only going to be a 1 on 1 copy. New engine, new capabilities, ability to implement things that had to be cut from the original. Would be a waste not to use that.

[Michael]

@Micheal - Cool as that would look, it would confuse new players unless they were told directly that they had to save mudokons.

True I guess some kind of 'Give it another go' instruction would be pretty terrible! I'm just throwing ideas out there for the sake of discussion. All in all, I will be pleased no doubt with whatever form Abe HD takes, whether it is a carbon copy of AO or not. Though I do agree with Havoc, it would seem a bit of a shame if things were exactly the same. As great as AO is, there is still room for some improvements! (Not speaking of my suggestions there)

[elums mum]

I think it would truly be a lost opportunity if Abe HD is only going to be a 1 on 1 copy. New engine, new capabilities, ability to implement things that had to be cut from the original. Would be a waste not to use that.

I whole heartedly agree! We already have the original games what's the point I. Just upping the graphics? Jaw would be idiots not to implement new Elements at every possible opportunity , obviously it still needs to be Extreamly similar but it needs those extra something's to bring it fully into the future otherwise it's gonna get left behind by some of the truly amazing 2.5d platformers out there

[Sekto Springs]

AO and AE simply do not lend themselves to backtracking, not without some serious structural changes.

I made a point of saying that the Rayman method wouldn't work for Oddworld, but there is nothing too involved or structurally imbalanced about allowing you to backtrack to certain paths. I'm not at all suggesting you should be able to revisit all previous paths/worlds whenever you want, and that the challenges/NPC's would reset, just that you should be able to go back a path or two to double check things or take in the scenery without having a door slammed in your face.

Naturally, certain paths have to be completely linear to accommodate the story and general forward flow, and those could remain.

But in the end, its kind of a moot point anyway, because I can only think of a select few paths offhand that I would have liked to be able to revisit. The game architects did a good job otherwise. Why fix it if it ain't broken? As for my response to Wil's comment, I was more arguing his personal reasoning for not agreeing with the "obsession" with backtracking than it's in-game applications.

[STM]

I've just realised how pretty the 2.5D portals could look, we might get to see the distorted other side of the Monsaic Sanctum through it! =D

[Nate]

Considering the Brewery was destroyed by an explosion could Abe really just wander inside? and assuming there are still Mudokons there, surely they would have been killed in the explosion.

What explosion? Why do people keep insisting there was an explosion? I didn't see any explosion - did you?

Wil, for shame. You should know games like Oddworld aren't meant to just be plowed through in a straight line. I think all games, especially ones with hidden challenges and gorgeous scenery, should be explored as freely as programming will permit. Even looking at it from a linear perspective, there's no good reason in my mind to make previous paths totally off-limits.

I'm pretty sure that Wil was replying to Crashpunk's post, about including bonus levels/DLC which take the player back to old locations rather than to new ones.

[MeechMunchie]

@STM I'd prefer it if it was so wobbly that you could barely see, like the surface of stormy water. I'd like to see mudokons glooping through it as it refills behind them, like a magical portal, rather than just a floating hole.

What explosion? Why do people keep insisting there was an explosion? I didn't see any explosion - did you?

You're joking, right?



Note the explosion-like burst of fire at 0:16.

[Sekto Springs]

I'm pretty sure that Wil was replying to Crashpunk's post, about including bonus levels/DLC which take the player back to old locations rather than to new ones.

Ah, I didn't even see his post. I just assumed Wil was addressing everyone who mentioned it.

I'm not a huge fan of the DLC idea either. Sorry CP.

[Nate]

You're joking, right?



Note the explosion-like burst of fire at 0:16.

Oh, sorry. I somehow misread his post and thought he was talking about Rupturefarms. People do sometimes claim Rupturefarms was destroyed in an explosion, you see, and I always found that absurd.

I hereby retract my previous post. The first half of it, at least.

[Sekto Springs]

The newscaster slig only ever mentioned a fire, but since that particular news cast was unused production material, does that mean it's not canon?

[MeechMunchie]

Oh, sorry. I somehow misread his post and thought he was talking about Rupturefarms. People do sometimes claim Rupturefarms was destroyed in an explosion, you see, and I always found that absurd.

RF does seem to have taken some level of damage, though, on account of it being "Out of Service" in AE. Glukkons don't seem like the sort who would take long to replace a slaughtered board of executives, and Abe did shut down all the machines.

[Bullet Magnet]

The newscaster slig only ever mentioned a fire, but since that particular news cast was unused production material, does that mean it's not canon?

That question could and should be asked of all news everywhere.

[Nate]

RF does seem to have taken some level of damage, though, on account of it being "Out of Service" in AE. Glukkons don't seem like the sort who would take long to replace a slaughtered board of executives, and Abe did shut down all the machines.

My theory is that the Mudokon lightning spark (or whatever it was) damaged the electronics of the machines significantly, but left the structure of the building intact.