The Debate Thread -

GrigtheSlig · #91 08-03-2003, 03:17 AM

Go paramiteabe! I study Astronomy, and I find that if you believe in GOD, it's way easier to understand! I think that what all of the Christain people are saying is right! I hope you guys can understand that we're trying to help you, not have you tortured and suffer in eternal damnation! We love you guys!

oddguy · #92 08-03-2003, 03:21 AM

yeah...edited from your minds, foo!

GrigtheSlig · #93 08-03-2003, 05:26 AM

I'll see you guys tomorrow!

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #94 08-03-2003, 10:26 AM

Good job guys!

Nicely done paramiteabe

***Alcar*** · #95 08-03-2003, 12:25 PM

Grid, your attitude and style of answering questions seems like you are only repeating what your parents or family have said. Is what you say, actually your own thoughts? Or are they the thoughts that have been implanted into your brain by the Church?

There is also a lot of evidence that religions such as Buddism are also correct. The evidence is much the same as you have presented here.

Don't get upset however, none of us actually expected most of you to answer those questions. They never do, afterall.

But kudos to you oddguy.

Alcar...

GrigtheSlig · #96 08-03-2003, 01:49 PM

:

Originally posted by Alcar
Grid, your attitude and style of answering questions seems like you are only repeating what your parents or family have said. Is what you say, actually your own thoughts? Or are they the thoughts that have been implanted into your brain by the Church?

There is also a lot of evidence that religions such as Buddism are also correct. The evidence is much the same as you have presented here.

Don't get upset however, none of us actually expected most of you to answer those questions. They never do, afterall.

But kudos to you oddguy.

Alcar...

Well, that's ok Alcar, we still WUV ya!

OANST · #97 08-03-2003, 03:14 PM

Some things in the bible are historical fact. That does not mean that they weren't fictionalized when they were written down. Also the arc of the covenant has never been found and neither has noahs ark. Anyone who tells you that they were is either misguided or lying. Still, I don't deny the possibility of god existing. I do wish that some of you would look at the things that god calls sins and try to decide for yourself with no bias why they are. You may change your mind about a great many things. The fact of the matter is that a lot of stuff (homosexuality for instance) just doesn't matter. Seriously. Go smoke a joint, sit down and you will say to yourself OHHH GOD! I'm sorry everyone. I just realized. IT DOESN'T MATTER! WOW! I mean love is love right? WOW! LOOK AT THE COLORS! How can any love be a sin, man? WOW! I FEEL FUNNY! If god is love then why does he condemn lovers to be stoned in the street? WOW! ITS ALL BECOME SO CLEAR! GOD IS A JERK! CALM DOWN GOD! HERE. HIT THIS, GOD! NOW DON'T YOU FEEL BETTER GOD? hEY GOD, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID! IT DOESN'T MATTER! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Jacob · #98 08-03-2003, 04:00 PM

:

The parting of the Red Sea is really based on a mathimatical science. It was demenstraited in a lab that water can be parted.

I refer to the documentary on Moses and his escape from wherever when i say this -

The parting of the Red Sea was said to be down to the current. The documentary hasn't been on in ages, but the people said that the current pulled the water out and left a small strip of land to allow people to cross. By the time the Chariots could have come the water was already filling up, the Horses and other heavy objects would get stuck in the mud and the sea would eventually swamped over them. If this was true then it shows that, that part of the Bible was exaggerated. The sea wasn't huge and it didn't part maginificently...it just parted away gradually and came together gradually. Anyway, didn't Moses commit a sin? Shouldn't he love his enemies? But he killed them in cold blood.

PA on the whole God doing everything thing than that again proves that the Bible was exaggerated. If you're going by that logic you must understand that, that took years...not days...and thus the Bible was once again exaggerated to make it more interesting.

And sticking to that point we could easily pose the question "But how do you know the Bible is Gods word?" you'd say "Because we have Historical evidence that stuff said in the Bible happened." then we would say "Yes, but how does that make it Gods word? Somebody could have wrote it up?" you say "Because we've found tablets and everything he's said has happened...and...and...and it just is". But still, you haven't proved its Gods word. So, just as we cannot prove that God isn't real. You cannot prove that he is.

And like Alcar said, there are tonnes of Religions out there that can prove their reality. Wicca were you do Spells is one of them. I have had quite a few of my Hex's and other such things work. So, does that not mean that Religion is real? What about Ouija boards...? Surely its not possible to break into Heaven and commune with the deceased?

Like somebody said a while back the Bible is a guide, not a blueprint. You should try to live your life as fully as possible and have fun. Most Christians don't. They believe that quite a lot of things that are fun are sinful. It was the Religious types that were against anthesetic when that came about, saying "If we were designed not to feel pain, then God would have made us not feel it!!".

Take a step back. Look at the stuff you're doing and saying and think "Do i really want to ruin my life for faith? For something that has hardly been proved. With only a Book as a basis of this faith?"

And Pinky, who decided it best to create the New Testament and scrap the old one? Isn't that like saying "That books got boring now, lets bring out a sequel."

SeaRex · #99 08-03-2003, 04:10 PM

:

Originally posted by Jacob
Anyway, didn't Moses commit a sin? Shouldn't he love his enemies? But he killed them in cold blood.

Actually, according to the bible, Moses didn't kill the Pharoh; God did. He smote him a new one.

However, I still stand by the whole "Red Sea was typo" thing.

I'm a jerk...

GrigtheSlig · #**100** 08-03-2003, 06:14 PM

Well, I just came back from church, so I hope that it'll help me answer your Q's! I realized today that I can't make any of you believe what i'm telling you, you have to be open to it in the first place! It says in John 20:29 Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. That's true, but you guys are like Thomas, always needing evidence. The only difference between the Christian people and the other people is faith. I think that almost everyone has faith on some thing, am I right? We have faith in God and Jesus, and you have faith in other things. You can't force faith on people, but you can share it with people. Faith is the most important thing you need to have when believeing in God and Jesus. But you can't just have faith. It says in James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? You also need good works. I hope this helps!

OANST · #**101** 08-03-2003, 06:17 PM

But Grig how can I have faith in an entity that I see as a great evil?

Jacob · #**102** 08-03-2003, 10:05 PM

I want to see some smoting...God, feel free to smote.

Different topic - What would you do if you found out you were the ultimate evil?

I had a dream were i was the ultimate evil, put on the Earth to wipe out man kind...I will divulge more once i have made sure the dream is not true...

paramiteabe · #**103** 08-04-2003, 02:21 AM

:

Originally posted by old and not so tasty
But Grig how can I have faith in an entity that I see as a great evil?

How is God a great evil if thats what your refering to?

Explan this to me if you claim that the Bible has been fictionalized then how do you explan Miracles that happen in more riecent times? For instence sightings of images of the Blessed Virgen Mary appearing to children. A statue of Jesus Christ that seems to Bleed. The profacys that are told in the Bible of the end days are happening right now. I have even seen myself images of Christ within clouds and even within static on my television set.

Very vegue images that resembol Christ that I could make out.

Just a few months ago there was a story on my News that a bunch of people could make out the image of Mary within a glass window. A lot of eye wittness accounts of these things take place nowadays. Its indeed another sign from God that the end times are here and Christ will return like a thief in the night.

The Bible has been written by man who was influenced by God. So man wrote it but God was the reason Man wrote it.
There are many virsions of the Bible but the true Bible is the Holy Bible.

***Alcar*** · #**104** 08-04-2003, 04:55 AM

People lye.

For instance, many of those crying statues have been proven to be false.

Alcar...

The Red Muse · #**105** 08-04-2003, 07:06 AM

Oh wow... biblical...

Hey, ummm--- I know I get flamed if I ask this ,but--- do you guys really buy all that stuff what the bible says?

Gotta tell ya, I lost my faith a long time ago.

Hobo · #**106** 08-04-2003, 07:14 AM

I don't eat up the bible's every word. The way i see it is that the bible is a way of explaining yhings we don't understand. Be it the truth or not, it makes many people around the world content with the answers that it gives.

Fez · #**107** 08-04-2003, 08:07 AM

i'm a bit of a believer, i believe in the whole heaven and hell thing, and sins = hell.

***Alcar*** · #**108** 08-04-2003, 09:13 AM

The Bible is their to provide hope, and to explain things that science cannot.

Alcar...

Jacob · #**109** 08-04-2003, 11:29 AM

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For instence sightings of images of the Blessed Virgen Mary appearing to children. A statue of Jesus Christ that seems to Bleed. The profacys that are told in the Bible of the end days are happening right now

What Prophecies are these? The story of the statues crying can be either faked or lied about. The children could lie also. Anyway, it doesn't prove anything. In some random Hindu country an Ivory Cow began crying milk...big deal.

:

I have even seen myself images of Christ within clouds and even within static on my television set.

"Satan" has been seen in the smoke of 9/11. I've seen Bunnies in the sky. Hares in the Tree leaves. Even a penis in somebodies cigarette smoke.

:

Just a few months ago there was a story on my News that a bunch of people could make out the image of Mary within a glass window. A lot of eye wittness accounts of these things take place nowadays. Its indeed another sign from God that the end times are here and Christ will return like a thief in the night.

Mary has been seen in Potatoes. Mother Teresa has been seen in Potatoe Crisps...what does this mean? That they have been reincarnated into food?

On the whole topic of miracles i am intrigued by Stigmata. An occurance in people were they get the marks of Christ upon their hands and feet and bleed for no apparant reason. This could be put down to their total belief and devotion. They're so devoted to Christ that they make those things happen themselves. Its like doing a Spell, if you want to enhance your Soul and Aura you will have to concentrate fully on doing that and it will work. The same can be said about Stigmata. They believe in Christ so much that their Soul and inner power inflict those injuries.

paramiteabe · #**110** 08-04-2003, 12:16 PM

But where do you think that comes from? Nothing?

And yes I never lost my faith I still believe in Christ as much as I believed in him when I was very little. Infact my faith is even stronger now than it was before. You just talk to God and he will help you out. We are all children of God wether you want to believe in it or not he loves ya!

Its all good!

Big_Bro_Slig222 · #**111** 08-04-2003, 12:38 PM

:

Originally posted by paramiteabe
But where do you think that comes from? Nothing?

And yes I never lost my faith I still believe in Christ as much as I believed in him when I was very little. Infact my faith is even stronger now than it was before. You just talk to God and he will help you out. We are all children of God wether you want to believe in it or not he loves ya! Its all good!

Having unyielding believe in God isn't faith. Faith is believing in something you are not truly sure of.

I'm catholic, mind you.

paramiteabe · #**112** 08-04-2003, 12:54 PM

I am aware of that and I do have lots of faith. I am too a Catholic aswell.

GrigtheSlig · #**113** 08-04-2003, 02:48 PM

:

Originally posted by The Red Muse
Oh wow... biblical...

Hey, ummm--- I know I get flamed if I ask this ,but--- do you guys really buy all that stuff what the bible says?

Gotta tell ya, I lost my faith a long time ago.

And how has your life been since? I'll tell you guys now, no matter how hard you try, your FAITH is always there, you can never lose it. It may shrink some, but it's always there. You just have to "water" your FAITH and let it grow. Read the BIBLE, pray, go to church, and other stuff like that will help your FAITH grow!

And to answer your question, yes I do believe everything that the BIBLE says. And I don't think that i'll flame you...today.

Jacob · #**114** 08-04-2003, 02:50 PM

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But where do you think that comes from? Nothing?

No our energy and Soul apparently come from the Earth, Gaia...or whatever. Pagans dance for her, i do believe.

:

You just talk to God and he will help you out.

Like i said before when this was stated you could easily be "answering" your own prayers...

GrigtheSlig · #**115** 08-04-2003, 03:00 PM

You can't answer your own prayers! How's that supposed to work? I have prayed more than 1 million times, and all of them have come true. When my sister was born, she had spina-bifida. She was paralized from the waist down. The docters said that the condition would never improve. So my family and tons of other people prayed for her and still pray for her, and now she's only paralized from below the knee down. If that's not a answer to prayer, what is???

OANST · #**116** 08-04-2003, 03:17 PM

the fact is that if you have something strongly on your mind you will see that thing everywhere you look. For further info watch a great movie called PI.

Disgruntled Intern · #**117** 08-04-2003, 04:06 PM

Old and not so tasty, with your talk of smoking joints and relaxing, I became partial to you.

With your last comment, I fear I may love you.

Joints. Excellent taste is movies.

Okay, so the love bit was obviously a joke, but you are pretty great.

The Red Muse · #**118** 08-04-2003, 06:37 PM

:

Originally posted by GrigtheSlig
And how has your life been since? I'll tell you guys now, no matter how hard you try, your FAITH is always there, you can never lose it. It may shrink some, but it's always there. You just have to "water" your FAITH and let it grow. Read the BIBLE, pray, go to church, and other stuff like that will help your FAITH grow!

And to answer your question, yes I do believe everything that the BIBLE says. And I don't think that i'll flame you...today.

My life's been great, at least I don't give myself false hope.
I think my faith has withered and died away.

I know I might sound critical and stuff, but that's how I feel.
Ain't gonna start judging anyone for believing in God or Jesus, I just don't keep them in a valued position in my life.

...so sue me...

TheKhanzumer · #**119** 08-04-2003, 07:40 PM

I just skimmed this topic so don't criticize me when if I make it obvious I didn't completely read this action packed thread.

In my opinion homosexuality is a sin. But so is drug use, abortion, violence, fornication, lying, stealing, swearing, etc. We all sin. I used to hate gays, even once stated they should all be killed. But then I realized something. I deserve to be killed to for my sins, everyone does. We are all sinners, often times intentionally. But we all think we are doing what is right.

What I don't like is when homosexuals try to push people to accept their way of life. Although I think everyone should be Christian, not do drugs, etc... I am not started big marches and trying to change the constitution. Gays make a choice to be live the lifestyle they live. If they are unhappy with the consequences of their choice then that is their own fault.

And don't tell me that homosexuals don't have a choice. Everyone has a choice and if you think otherwise you are really quite a hopeless person. A paedophile, murderer, rapist, heroin addict, alcoholic... all of them make choices. They are not victims to a society, or genetics. They chose to live the way they do. We all chose our paths in life.

It is wrong to persecute others for their sins. We need to help each other even if we hate each other. Gays fighting for rights are trying to change other peoples beliefs in order to make society agree with them. That seems selfish to me. A person who does something generally considered "wrong" should not try to force people who still think it is wrong to change their opinion. If a paedophile tried to convince everyone that they were just the product of society, would anybody listen to them? I hope the day never comes.

Oh and PA. You are very misguided. I agree with you to some extent, but don't think all those modern day miracle hoaxes will change anyones opinions. That sort of stuff make Christians look dumb. The apostles were the last people able to do miracles and all those "eyewitnesses" are liers. That stuff isn't a sign from God, that is a sign of pagan stupidity. God doesn't need to send signs like that anymore, his direct work on earth ended when Jesus died. We don't NEED signs like that anymore.

Real miracles are when a mother with superhuman strength saves her child from being crushed by car after a wreck. When a person with a paralyzing injury learns how to inspire others more fortunate than them. When a person recovers from cancer. Those are REAL signs that God is active in our lives.

I hope you all learn something useful and can show tell nonsarcastically and intelligently if you disagree with me. There is nothing worse than someone making a joke out of another persons beliefs. That show immaturity and a lack of real conviction. A person who really strongly believes that they are right doesn't have to mock another person's beliefs. That just shows that they are actually still unsure of their convictions, despite what they say.

Wow. I had a lot to share.

OANST · #**120** 08-04-2003, 07:57 PM

that was one of the most ignorant things I have ever read! for one thing homo sex is consentual and they know what they are doing. How can you compare that with child molesting? Gay rights marches and speaches are just that. For gay rights. There is no reason that they should not be able to do everything we do just because they sleep with someone we would not sleep with. Seperation of church and state boy.