Islam

[abe619]

I don't know, not sure, there are alot of opinions on that.

But anyway, that's the point, things aren't clear cut,well some are, but most aren't, people themselves aren't, and you're not allowed to call anyone a sinner or judge them that they'll go to hell (I know you probably don't believe in it, but bare with me here), one of the more well learned people I know who knows enough to advise people in stuff like this was once approached by a guy who's gay but religious, he asked him if there was a way he'd be forgiven, and he replied with something along the lines of "Who knows? maybe god will forgive you for that and punish me instead for something else." no one knows what'll happen for sure, but no one thing condemns you like that, get what I'm saying?

You can't just divide people into "Sinner" and "Religious" like that, people are just people, people make mistakes, EVERYONE makes mistakes and that's absolutely fine, and before anyone says it, no I'm not saying being gay is a mistake, I'm just saying things at are "Wrong" in a religion don't negate any good qualities anyone has.

All it is supposed to be is manual of lifestyle basically, telling you you should be nice to people, animals, the earth itself and what not, and SPECIFICALLY telling you that it never was and never will be your place or anyone else's to judge, I mean think about it, not sure if you're atheist or what, but if you are, if there is a god and he's gonna judge you one day, what use is there anyone judging you?

Be peaceful and shove a pie in the face of whoever non-constructively judges you, that's what I personally believe. (Well a vastly simplified version of it)

[Varrok]

The thing is: You don't need a book to be a good person, really. Especially if you don't agree on things that it says (Like "Death to people who perform homosexual deeds" or others).

The real question is: Do you want to be a part of a religion which shed a lot of blood for not a good reason? I certainly wouldn't want it.

[abe619]

The thing is: You don't need a book to be a good person, really. Especially if you don't agree on things that it says (Like "Death to people who perform homosexual deeds" or others).

The real question is: Do you want to be a part of a religion which shed a lot of blood for not a good reason? I certainly wouldn't want it.

First of all, yes, you do NOT need a book to be a good person.

And do not take parts of a book, religion is a whole thing.

And again, you missed the point the "Religion" didn't do anything, a bunch of people did, and people have been shedding blood alot before and after that, those with religion, those without religion, didn't matter.

War, terrorism and hate do NOT distinguish, they have no rules, they have no values, they have no specific groups of people, they're a flaw that plagues some members of humanity.

If you removed the muslim, would you solve the problem of terrorism? what about if you remove the whites? what if you unified races, would that ban terrorism? would that stop war?

Really, all those problems are political in nature, people can associate them with race, religion and heck, people almost associated it with insecurities and compensating for the lack of "Stuff" (I'm looking at you Hitler), but really, the problem is ignorance, the problem is political corruption in governments based on greed.

So really the root of the problem in my opinion is a combination of greed, ignorance and (*Insert whatever the heck the noun of inhumane is here*).

[Nepsotic]

To be honest the problem is rooted deep in human nature, religion just gives them an excuse to execute it.

[Havoc]

To be honest the problem is rooted deep in human nature, religion just gives them an excuse to execute it.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[STM]

To be honest the problem is rooted deep in human nature, religion just gives them an excuse to execute it.

Oh so when I say it I'm a stupid mongolid retard spastic bla bla bla, but when YOU say it it's right. I SWEAR TO GOD NEPSOTIC, WHY I OUGHTA.

[Vlam]

Abe619, haven't you heard of "Taqiya"?

[Nepsotic]

Oh so when I say it I'm a stupid mongolid retard spastic bla bla bla, but when YOU say it it's right. I SWEAR TO GOD NEPSOTIC, WHY I OUGHTA.

I never said you were wrong about that, you probably misunderstood me. Also STM please don't say retard it's very triggering ;_;

[STM]

[Jacob]

Good videos to look up on the subject are videos by Maajid Nawaz, Sam Harris, Sargon of Akkad and to some extent Gavin McInnes (though mainly for the troll factor with him).

My view is I'm extremely concerned by ANY religion that begins growing in number whilst also maintaining it's conservative edge.

I'm also kinda tired of the "YEAH, BUT...CHRISTIANS, DUDE! CHRISTIANS!!" 'cos I believe that war has been won. It's been fought. It's been destroyed. We (as the UK, but as the USA too, I guess) are slowly shaking off the shackles of Christianity. And this is a good, positive step.

To then proceed to ignore that there is an issue with one of the most violent religions on the planet at this moment...is pretty fucking stupid.

But, Mohammed was a lad. And I do love me some Mo stories, tbh.

[Slog Bait]

The US still has a fairly significant problem with radical self proclaimed Christian terrorists, so I'd say it's still pretty important to bring them into discussions about terrorism since there's still a problem at all, albeit it an internal problem. Given this thread was split off from the US elections thread, meaning the initial problem was based on terrorism from muslims in the states, it's still a relevant point to make.

Same goes for any other pointing and saying "well they're doing it too"

[Jacob]

Are Christians getting support from the Pope for these terrorist attacks? Like, are heads of Churches coming out supporting their bull? Are other Christians finding sympathies with these terrorists?

And what kind of terrorist attacks are they?

(These are all genuine questions btw)

[Slog Bait]

I went to look for three specific incidents I can remember happening in the last decade, and in the process stumbled across this article that includes two of them and a bunch of others, some of which I didn't know about.

I don't think they've been getting support from any Pope, but I haven't heard any approval from Islamic leaders either, and if relgious heads have been supporting the terrorism of radical muslims I'm very interested in reading about it actually

Yes, other Christians absolutely are finding sympathies. I've had neighbors talk to me about how some of these occurances just happened as a reason to turn people on their religion and that they believe the people that committed these acts were good, solid youths at heart and some other bullshit you tend to just eye roll out of your head because of the level of "uggh no" you experience upon hearing them.

And, if I'm remembering right, there are various churches across the states that also support the acts of these people. They're usually just dismissed as being radical or associated with Westboro and the like.

[Vlam]

Slog Bait, don't forget the Buddhists who are known to be extremely dangerous.

[Nepsotic]

Good videos to look up on the subject are videos by Maajid Nawaz, Sam Harris, Sargon of Akkad and to some extent Gavin McInnes (though mainly for the troll factor with him).

My view is I'm extremely concerned by ANY religion that begins growing in number whilst also maintaining it's conservative edge.

I'm also kinda tired of the "YEAH, BUT...CHRISTIANS, DUDE! CHRISTIANS!!" 'cos I believe that war has been won. It's been fought. It's been destroyed. We (as the UK, but as the USA too, I guess) are slowly shaking off the shackles of Christianity. And this is a good, positive step.

To then proceed to ignore that there is an issue with one of the most violent religions on the planet at this moment...is pretty fucking stupid.

But, Mohammed was a lad. And I do love me some Mo stories, tbh.

He was a lad, yeah. A rapist, murdering paedophile.
Also yes, Sargon of Akkad is excellent.

[EVP_Glukkon]

It really doesn't pay to be absent from OWF for a couple of days... saw myself in a topic about Islam, what a hoot.

[abe619]

The problem isn't Christianity or the pope, it's because there is a political interest for someone in that, again, this problem transcends race AND religion.

The greatest proof of this is that it isn't bound to either of those, or any form of distinction for that matter, criminals are always gonna have backgrounds of sorts, and sometimes it's even used as an excuse but it's not the root of the problem.

[Slog Bait]

Slog Bait, don't forget the Buddhists who are known to be extremely dangerous.

Buddhists are the scariest of the lot, to be fair. All that pent up aggression.

[Vlam]

Abe619 is doing the taqiya (like Crashpunk).

[Slog Bait]

The problem isn't Christianity or the pope, it's because there is a political interest for someone in that, again, this problem transcends race AND religion.

The greatest proof of this is that it isn't bound to either of those, or any form of distinction for that matter, criminals are always gonna have backgrounds of sorts, and sometimes it's even used as an excuse but it's not the root of the problem.

Politics is the leading factor most religions take off in the first place. Christianity got its grounds because a king saw the potential in using it to control his people through the small, devout group that was practicing it at the time. And then some time later the crusades happened.

I'm not 100% sure when Islam suddenly decided it wanted control of the (western) world or what kickstarted it, but outside of the spat between Syria and Isreal I'm not educated on the history of Abrahamic religions and violence

[Vlam]

Slog Bait, read the book The world of islamic civilization.

[Slog Bait]

I'll give it a look some time. It's definitely a topic I need a better understanding of. Thanks, Vlam.

[EVP_Glukkon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests

A lot of history to go through. I find the Crusades period the most interesting because I like the battles.

[Nate]

Are Christians getting support from the Pope for these terrorist attacks? Like, are heads of Churches coming out supporting their bull? Are other Christians finding sympathies with these terrorists?

Believe it or not, Catholicism is one of the more modern streams of Christianity. It largely believes in treating people of other religions with kindness, accepts that the universe is 13.5 billion years old, and that life on Earth came to be the way it is through evolution. So asking about the Pope specifically is a poorly chosen example. Christian terrorists are getting significant moral support from their religious leaders. If there's a significant distinction between Christian and Muslim terrorists, it's that the former tends to be a large number of small, disjointed groups, while the latter have been more successful in banding together into larger organisations.

[STM]

Furthermore, if you look at who is coming out in support of groups like ISIS and Al-Nusra, it's all low level hate preachers and conservative clerics with minute followings; it's not like the Ayatollah is telling all Muslims to destroy the infidel and begin a world conquest.

[Jacob]

I can't really speak for America, then. As it seems America is as batshit over Christianity as it is over Islam.

From personal experience I have no surprise that there are issue with Muslims when it comes to certain things - depiction of the Prophet, discussion of the Qur'an, jokes about the religion in general. I've seen examples of the "touchyness" of such topics first hand.

Recently my stance has been 'what will be will be'. If people in the West can't assert why secularism is better than Islam, or why the West is superior over the rest of the World...then fuck us. We deserve to die out. We deserve to be taken over.

[Vlam]

Terrorist attacks in Brussels: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35869254

[Havoc]

I read some tweets of a girl who goes to school in Amsterdam. Apparently a whole bunch of Islamic students are laughing and cheering about it and hoping "a lot of motherfuckers died".

Makes me sick, wish we could just deport scum like that and drop them in the middle of the warzone in Syria.

[Slugology]

here we go again

[Nepsotic]

It's funny because Havoc is saying those motherfuckers should die for saying that they hope a lot of motherfuckers died.

Also cheers for another bombing, Islam, we hadn't had one in a while.