Abe HD Ideas

[OANST]

And I'm assuming Abe HD is not going to be classed as an arcade title?

Why the hell would you assume that? It certainly couldn't be a Games On Demand, as those are just downloadable versions of current 360 games, and it couldn't be an XBox original because it isn't, and even if it was, they are remaking the game, which would instantly turn it into a Live Arcade game anyways.

Pay attention, Tiger Boy.

[Havoc]

Microsoft has their reasons for doing it the way they do. Like a lot of the stuff they make, it only makes sense to them. I won't really mind either way, I'll play it on PC anyway and it looks like they will be staying with Steam for a long time to come.

Edit: Just because it's a remake doesn't mean it would be classed as an arcade title. I see no reason why Abe HD wouldn't be classed as a regular full game like any other.

[OANST]

Edit: Just because it's a remake doesn't mean it would be classed as an arcade title. I see no reason why Abe HD wouldn't be classed as a regular full game like any other.

Because it won't be seeing retail release. That is what makes a game eligible for Games On Demand.

[Never Sleeper]

Well along with the discussion in the BigFace thread, wouldn't be cool if Abe HD has a daycircle? It depends where the player starts by Scrabania or Paramonia. For example instead of starting with Paramonia the player starts first with Scrabania, the sky would be nearly clear blue and Paramania would be placed more in a sunset mood? Otherwise there would be too much problems with the lightning for all places wouldn't be?

Sry my grammar is terrible today. =/

[Sekto Springs]

I don't think a daycycle is necessary. The timeline implies Abe made his way through both Paramonia and Scrabania throughout the day and made his way back to the Free Fire Zone by nightfall. The light schemes in the levels were already pretty self-explanatory. However, I did feel the lighting in Scrabania was meant to be either a sunset or sunrise.

I think the addition of a setting sun at some point before Abe gets his hand scars would be a nice touch, and bring it all full circle.

[DesertBuzzard]

Yesterday in the Big Face thread I mentioned the sky getting darker near the end of Scrabania. I think he means that if you go to Scrabania first, the sun would start setting in Paramonia and vice versa.

[STM]

I don't think a daycycle is necessary. The timeline implies Abe made his way through both Paramonia and Scrabania throughout the day and made his way back to the Free Fire Zone by nightfall. The light schemes in the levels were already pretty self-explanatory. However, I did feel the lighting in Scrabania was meant to be either a sunset or sunrise.

I think the addition of a setting sun at some point before Abe gets his hand scars would be a nice touch, and bring it all full circle.

That being said, in the first cut scene where he uses the Shrykull power, it's night time. Perhaps he got his scars in the late evening and shut down Rupture farms by midnight or something.

[Sekto Springs]

I think he means that if you go to Scrabania first, the sun would start setting in Paramonia and vice versa.

Unless the engine supported such things, that sounds like quite a hefty undertaking. I know nothing of game programming though, so I could be wrong.

It seems like unnecessary work though, as the lighting schemes already accommodate the timeline.

[Nate]

I don't think a daycycle is necessary. The timeline implies Abe made his way through both Paramonia and Scrabania throughout the day and made his way back to the Free Fire Zone by nightfall. The light schemes in the levels were already pretty self-explanatory. However, I did feel the lighting in Scrabania was meant to be either a sunset or sunrise.

I think the addition of a setting sun at some point before Abe gets his hand scars would be a nice touch, and bring it all full circle.

Perhaps the sun set whilst he was in the temples? Thus, he was in Paramonia during the day, the Paramonian temple during the night, and back to Monsaic Lines by morning. Then on to Scrabania for a similar cycle.

Although it's then somewhat confusing that he would return to Monsaic Lines in the morning but return to the stockyards by nightfall. Perhaps it's best to assume that both Paramonia and Scrabania happen in one day, with the scar-giving happening indoors.

[Sekto Springs]

Perhaps it's best to assume that both Paramonia and Scrabania happen in one day, with the scar-giving happening indoors.

Yeah, that's what I was suggesting. Since Abe says in the opening narration it all happened in one day. It would actually take less than a day to complete the game, especially omitting setbacks like dying, so it's perfectly feasible.

[AvengingGibbons]

Do we know that Oddworld orbits one sun? If not, maybe the day/night cycles arent as you'd presume. There is more than one moon afterall. Maybe there is a very large moon that reflects lots of light onto Oddworld, making the night seem not like night at all. There could be some other natural phenomenon that means that it is light at night, no?..

[Sekto Springs]

That's a legitimization along the lines of "a wizard did it".

[AvengingGibbons]

I've just been watching LOST xP

[moxco]

Considering in Oddworld canon there exists mind control, were-shrykulls, ghosts, magical shamans and instantaneous space-time travel, the wizard theory is plausible.

[Nate]

To the best of my limited knowledge* about binary star systems, any planet would orbit both of them. Thus both stars would always appear in the sky next to each other and there would only be one standard day/night cycle. The only difference would be a slightly more complicated dusk.

Yeah, that's what I was suggesting. Since Abe says in the opening narration it all happened in one day. It would actually take less than a day to complete the game, especially omitting setbacks like dying, so it's perfectly feasible.

I've always assumed that the one day he was talking about was the period in between finding out about the Mudokon Pops and meeting Bigface. I acknowledge that that is probably wrong.



* Actually, to the best of my limited knowledge, binary star systems would not generally have planets because the orbits would be too complicated. But in the infinite complexity of space, let's make shit up for a moment.

[MeechMunchie]

To the best of my limited knowledge* about binary star systems, any planet would orbit both of them. Thus both stars would always appear in the sky next to each other and there would only be one standard day/night cycle. The only difference would be a slightly more complicated dusk.

Maybe it was a double-solar eclipse.

[Scraby]

As I know abe was retelling what happened to him,he mentioned he was working late one night at rupture farms,then he saw the mudokon pops he ran away met big face then he ran trough paramonia and scrabania then he returned to rupture farms,then he got caught by the sligs,then comes the period that he was telling us what happened to him,afther that Mullock comes in and "kills" abe if he didnt save enough mudokons or gets knocked out by that energy lightning.

EDIT: also double or triple binary star systems have planets,they all rotate at one center of all mass,the only exception to that might be Sirius A and B that have an eccentric orbit.Many planets were found that are in binary star systems,but lets leave that for our specific astronomy thread.

[Spooce-aholic]

Since Abe says in the opening narration it all happened in one day. It would actually take less than a day to complete the game, especially omitting setbacks like dying, so it's perfectly feasible.

I'm pretty sure that if I didn't take any breaks, I could complete AO in 5 hours. If I watched all of the cutscenes, 7 hours. So I think it took Abe at least 7 hours to complete AO, especially since he didn't take any breaks.

But the day/night cycle tells us that it took Abe at least 24 hours to complete AO.

In Rupture Farms I, you can't tell because it's indoors, but I assume it's night

In Stockyards I, it's night.

In Monsaic Lines, you can't tell because it's indoors, but I assume it's sun rise.

In Paramonia, it's Morning.

In Scrabania, it's sun set.

In Stockyards II, it's night.

In Rupture Farms II, you can't tell because it's indoors, but I assume it's night.

[LIJI]

In Rupture Farms I, you can't tell because it's indoors, but I assume it's night

"I was working late one night, at Rupture Farms"

Original game aside, being able to visit Scrabania and Paramonia at different times of the day is both interesting, and is a great reason play the game for a second time.

[Manco]

Unrelated to the current discussion, but what are the thoughts on having Quarma subtly alter the game in later levels?

So for example, if Abe has rescued a large amount of Mudokons the puzzles may become slightly more difficult, there may be more graffiti scattered around Rupturefarms, and Mudokons are more likely to be happy; and if a large amount of Mudokons have been killed, puzzles become a little easier, the lighting/mood of Rupturefarms may become more foreboding, and Mudokons encountered are more easily depressed.

[Nate]

Unrelated to the current discussion, but what are the thoughts on having Quarma subtly alter the game in later levels?

So for example, if Abe has rescued a large amount of Mudokons the puzzles may become slightly more difficult, there may be more graffiti scattered around Rupturefarms, and Mudokons are more likely to be happy; and if a large amount of Mudokons have been killed, puzzles become a little easier, the lighting/mood of Rupturefarms may become more foreboding, and Mudokons encountered are more easily depressed.

I'm Nate and I approve this message.

[Jordan]

That's an awesome idea OddHunter, it would really emphasise the actions of the player.

[Nate]

EDIT: also double or triple binary star systems have planets,they all rotate at one center of all mass,the only exception to that might be Sirius A and B that have an eccentric orbit.Many planets were found that are in binary star systems,but lets leave that for our specific astronomy thread.

I think you're overstating it a bit. After a bit more research, I've come to realise that it is possible for binary stars to have planets, but only under certain circumstances. This article from NASA is interesting.

[Bullet Magnet]

Most binary systems have very differently-sized stars anyway. The smaller one effectively behaves like a planet. A hot, bright, nuclear-powered planet.

[Xavier]

Unrelated to the current discussion, but what are the thoughts on having Quarma subtly alter the game in later levels?

So for example, if Abe has rescued a large amount of Mudokons the puzzles may become slightly more difficult, there may be more graffiti scattered around Rupturefarms, and Mudokons are more likely to be happy; and if a large amount of Mudokons have been killed, puzzles become a little easier, the lighting/mood of Rupturefarms may become more foreboding, and Mudokons encountered are more easily depressed.

The change of environmental mood is a very nice idea indeed. Having mudokons running in the background and spaying graffiti in RF would make the player more aware of the impact his positive actions have on oddworld.

But personally I would keep the puzzles unaffected.

[LIJI]

The change of environmental mood is a very nice idea indeed. Having mudokons running in the background and spaying graffiti in RF would make the player more aware of the impact his positive actions have on oddworld.

But personally I would keep the puzzles unaffected.

Agreed. Also, the Mudokons emotionally affected by Abe's quarma should say something more meaningful than the normal sadness "umm" and the anger "nyarrrg" (How the hell would you transcribe it?) so the player would know they're specifically angered or saddened by Abe's actions. For example, angry Mudokons could say things like "I hate you", "you suck" or, if the casualties count justifies it, "you terrorist", and depressed Mudokons could say things like "I'm doomed" or, if the casualties count justifies it, "you killed my buddies". Of course don't make these too obvious or else they'll suck. :P

Also about Mudokon emotions, make them change less sharpy. E.g. in AE a furious Mudokon who have just tried to kill you suddenly becomes all friendly and cheerful after a plain "sorry". Make these keep a slightly angry/sad tone for a few minutes before reverting to the default voice.

[Bullet Magnet]

"Hello."

"Murderer! You killed my friends in cold blood!"

"Follow me."

"Okay!"

[AvengingGibbons]

"Hello."

"Murderer! You killed my friends in cold blood!"

"Follow me."

"Okay!"

"Hello."

"Murderer! You killed my friends in cold blood!"

"Sorry."

"Okay!"

[STM]

You're both witty as fuck.

[Bullet Magnet]

I just wondering how emotions that change in conjunction with your actions will impact Gamespeak puzzles, and Gamespeak within puzzles, from a narrative sense. Exoddus impressed us by having emotions in a game at all, though the added complexity was not all that much. The biggest effect was having to physically get to them to make them behave, before their own actions got themselves (or you) killed. But they were very simple emotions. They were either angry or depressed at slavery, or angry or depressed at you. Narratively speaking, an apology only makes sense when he is angry at Abe. For hitting him or so forth. An apology on behalf of another mudokon is not very believable. "Showing sympathy," as it was called, for their slave circumstances is pushing it. Apologising for killing their friend just shows them to be mind-bogglingly stupid.

We ought it at the time. It was a new thing, the puzzles were fun, and starting fights was hilarious. The suicides were funny the first time, the mass suicides were slightly disturbing.

Now we expect more. Hence the proposal that word of your actions gets around. I don't know how he impact on the puzzles will be believable without entirely independent sets of puzzles. What mudokon will follow an Abe who fully lives up to his terrorist reputation from all possible perspectives? Who will forgive him? Changing your tune halfway through will be that much harder if they won't let you rescue them, and some puzzles just require them to help you. Mass-murderers are faces with a certain level of belligerence from the general public that makes it difficult to solicit aid from them. Which is fine in games where such aid is not necessary. The Fable games always allowed you to acquire a crowd of followers, but if you hated your they would not accompany you at all (unless you were scary enough to intimidate them into it. Abe never will be). In Fable 3 villagers that hate you would resist you with all their might as you physically drag them around.

Quarma has always been little more than a point system in the Oddworld games. Make it more than that and you edge towards RPG elements. With is fine, just be aware of what you are getting yourselves in to, and how sweeping the changes might be if it is to make narrative sense. Dominoes. Story is of utmost importance to the Oddworld games, and that should come through in the gameplay as well. It is a difficult tightrope. After all, the story of Abe the psychpath should come through in the gameplay as well, if that is still a viable option.