Keep our English members in mind -

Havoc · #61 08-11-2011, 01:59 PM

I'm not sure about the situation there for the 'poor' lower class, but I doubt it can be seriously that bad for them that they need to start rioting.

Most have a roof over their head and have food to eat. They can get a job if they just tried hard enough. They can get a decent education if they just tried hard enough. Not receiving either of those two things is not a reason to become a criminal. However being a criminal is a reason not to get those things, see how this works? I wouldn't employ someone who looks like he deals drugs on a daily basis, nor would someone like that be accepted into any education.

So what, they're mad because they're searched more often in the poor area's? Maybe that's because there's a lot of morons there who carry weapons and deal drugs. It's a preventive measure, not an 'in your face because you're black' measure. But apparently people can not comprehend this.

Sure, politics have a hand in this too. I'm sure there's plenty of retarded rules in the UK that support the growth of poor communities. But there's also people involved. As a person you can actually make a choice in right or wrong. If they think it's easier to sit on their ass and get money from the government, deal drugs and have 16 kids then that's their business. But don't expect anyone to be sorry for you when you start complaining about the extremely poor condition your government paid house is in while you make a few thousand dollars a month dealing heroine.

Manco · #62 08-11-2011, 02:11 PM

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I'm not sure about the situation there for the 'poor' lower class, but I doubt it can be seriously that bad for them that they need to start rioting.

and yet

Wings of Fire · #63 08-11-2011, 03:37 PM

It's way too easy to push all the responsibility on the rioters and say they're just rioting because they're bad people who want kicks and giggles.

It's almost certainly what David Cameron is doing.

OddjobAbe · #64 08-11-2011, 03:41 PM

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They can get a job if they just tried hard enough.

At this moment in time, I'm not in any kind of mood to deconstruct your entire post, but this particular comment stuck out like a fucker.
Right now there are maybe slightly under 2.45 million people unemployed. There is no way you are telling me that every single one of those people is just lazy. I have it on the ONS that one in five 16-24 year olds are staying in education just to avoid dole. On top of this, the Government have pulled the Educational Maintenance Allowance (£30 per week), so those kids are going to have a serious fucking debt when they get out. Even then, it's not guaranteed that they're going to get the job that they have been working for.
Let me tell you, right now it is difficult to get a job, no matter how hard you work for it.

Jordan · #65 08-11-2011, 03:45 PM

David Cameron is an arsehole and leaves a lot of people in shit, but I'm unable to sympathize with the rioters because they're causing destruction upon the lives of innocent people who aren't connected to David Cameron at all. It's him that's making them unhappy, and targeting him may be difficult of course, but there's no excuse for the damage they're doing. I think I'm ignorant to how riots work, so forgive me if I sound like I'm being a twat, I don't intend to be.

EDIT: I read Havoc's post at first and didn't pay much attention, as you do, but to the getting a job thing - Fuck you. You have no idea about the unemployment rate in this country and OddjobAbe summed it up perfectly.

Havoc · #66 08-11-2011, 03:55 PM

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At this moment in time, I'm not in any kind of mood to deconstruct your entire post, but this particular comment stuck out like a fucker.
Right now there are maybe slightly under 2.45 million people unemployed. There is no way you are telling me that every single one of those people is just lazy.

No but if it's anything like it is here then there will probably be dozens of types of jobs that people find too low.

Too many people around here go: OMG I can't find a job!!

- Well, the local McDonalds has openings?

Are you kidding? I'm not working for fucking Mcdonalds...

And it's not just McDonalds, there's all kinds of shit people simply don't WANT to do. Even if it does pay. There's a lot on unemployment here as well, yet at the same time I see plenty of job openings. Even for low level jobs. That doesn't make sense to me.

Wings of Fire · #67 08-11-2011, 03:59 PM

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No but if it's anything like it is here then there will probably be dozens of types of jobs that people find too low.

Too many people around here go: OMG I can't find a job!!

- Well, the local McDonalds has openings?

Are you kidding? I'm not working for fucking Mcdonalds...

And it's not just McDonalds, there's all kinds of shit people simply don't WANT to do. Even if it does pay. There's a lot on unemployment here as well, yet at the same time I see plenty of job openings. Even for low level jobs. That doesn't make sense to me.

Jobseekers allowance means you have to actively seek jobs.

If you don't seek jobs, you don't get the allowance.

There. Are. No. Jobs.

Havoc · #68 08-11-2011, 04:02 PM

Yeah they have that same joke of a rule here too. You know what people do? They seek jobs and make sure to get turned down for them or some other way to get out of it. Free money for an hours work a week.

Jordan · #69 08-11-2011, 04:57 PM

There's no denying that there are individuals who moan that there are no jobs and don't attempt to look for one, but there are a lot of people who look for jobs who genuinely cannot get one. You're spouting this shit and it is a known fact that this country has very little in terms of employment.

Manco · #70 08-12-2011, 03:27 AM

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Yeah they have that same joke of a rule here too. You know what people do? They seek jobs and make sure to get turned down for them or some other way to get out of it. Free money for an hours work a week.

I see you're an expert on the unemployed in a country you don't live in.

Phylum · #71 08-12-2011, 03:57 AM

I'll happily keep English members in mind.

Goresplatter · #72 08-16-2011, 04:31 AM

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Jobseekers allowance means you have to actively seek jobs.

If you don't seek jobs, you don't get the allowance.

There. Are. No. Jobs.

This is one of the most incredibly wrong things I've seen written on this topic.

I even have a friend who 'seeks' work with Jobseekers.

He can make up any bullshit he wants, then attend one hour per two weeks to get paid £200 each time.

The reason he does this is because in his eyes, the extra money you'd get from a minimum wage job is not worth the loss in free time. I don't even oppose him because it makes sense from that position.

He confidently claims he could claim from this for as long as he wanted / needed without ever truly looking for work. Just pretending to and making stuff up.

And people on this service, people are claiming, have a right to complain about anything? Ridiculous.

***Wil*** · #73 08-16-2011, 05:08 AM

Oh right, therefore everyone on the dole has no right to complain about the lack of jobs that there still is.

Wings of Fire · #74 08-16-2011, 06:35 AM

Max is right. There are more people on jobseekers than there are people cheating the system.

Pretending for the sake of argument that the job distribution over the entire UK is even, some simple mathematics will still inform you THERE ARE NO JOBS.

Goresplatter · #75 08-16-2011, 09:30 AM

And how many of these rioters do you think are people genuinely upset because they can't get a job?

Besides, the fact that some people can't is irrelevant to my point. The point is that you do NOT have to be honestly trying to get work to claim jobseekers. It's a piss easy system to take advantage of, and MANY people do.

And I still don't really see how people can complain about free money handouts. It's something for nothing, isn't it? If people were willing to lower their standards a little, I think more people would have jobs.

Wings of Fire · #76 08-16-2011, 09:53 AM

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And how many of these rioters do you think are people genuinely upset because they can't get a job?

If people riot not because they're dissatisfied but simply because they're bad people, then why don't riots break out all the time?

:

And I still don't really see how people can complain about free money handouts. It's something for nothing, isn't it?

It's not enough to start a life with. Also, idle thumbs do the devil's work or something.

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If people were willing to lower their standards a little, I think more people would have jobs.

This, and you'll excuse the hypocrisy, is the easiest thing in the world for a twenty year old to say.

STM · #77 08-16-2011, 10:11 AM

Look stop sticking up for the rioters Wings, I'm sick to death with the shit you're spouting. I've been going through the places hit by looters (and I don't like to call them rioters because they had no cause behind their violence) and some places look like there's been a fire fight in the street, even a week afterwards. Innocent working class shop owners have had their places of work burnt to the ground and some of them can't afford the insurance, so that makes more people out of work. Cut the crap about people not being able to find jobs so they loot out of frustration or some such bull shit. My Dad was frequently out of work in the 80s and 90s he didn't decide, 'hey I think I'll go break into a Dixon's and steal all their camera's tonight'.

It's very easy for you to stand up for these people when you can sit and watch behind your TV but when things hit you, or even get close to where you live your tone will suddenly change and get very real.

Oh and this isn't about the government either, these people were far too cowardly to hit the government buildings.

Wings of Fire · #78 08-16-2011, 10:15 AM

When did I ever say I was sticking up for the rioters?

Their actions are their own responsibilities. They caused criminal damage, they deserve to pay for that in fines and jail time.

STM · #79 08-16-2011, 10:17 AM

By what you're saying, because there are no jobs, we can excuse these people's behaviour.

Wings of Fire · #80 08-16-2011, 10:18 AM

No.

I'm talking about reasons, not excuses.

You are blinding yourself if you think these riots are without reason. There's no excuse for it, but that's a different matter entirely.

STM · #81 08-16-2011, 10:29 AM

I think the vast majority of the people just jumped on the bandwagon because they didn't think the police would catch them, not because of pent up rage, or joblessness, or the society, or because Mummy never smacked them when they did bad.

Wings of Fire · #82 08-16-2011, 10:41 AM

Bullshit. If the population was satisfied, this wouldn't happen.

Unhappy people riot. Not because they're inherently bad, but because they're inherently people. History tells us this again and again.

STM · #83 08-16-2011, 11:13 AM

I'm not happy with the way things are in this country, I don't like the government, I don't like how out of touch David Cameron is with the world and I hate that I'll come out with roughly £60,000 of debt when I finish university but I don't want to go on a rampage smashing things up because that effects others, so bull shit to your ideas about there having to be a reason behind everything that happened. What about that 2012 Olympic envoy that was caught up in it? Or that multi-millionaire's daughter who is trying to get her jail time reduced? Why are they unhappy?

Wings of Fire · #84 08-16-2011, 11:15 AM

What about them? What about the individual drops of water in a storm? Who cares about them? The storm is still here and there's a reason why it is.

STM · #85 08-16-2011, 11:33 AM

The individual drops in the storm? That's the mindset of the majority of the people looting as they admitted to the news countless times, they find it fun or they want free shit. That's the simple truth. Social/ economical/ political possibilities are more minor reasons.

Wings of Fire · #86 08-16-2011, 12:01 PM

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they find it fun or they want free shit..

This is classic mob mentality, but something is always driving a mob.

STM · #87 08-16-2011, 12:05 PM

What's driving them is...they want fun and free shit.

However I agree with you that there are people who are angry, but their numbers pale into comparison with the masses.

Wings of Fire · #88 08-16-2011, 12:14 PM

No, the masses are most definitely angry.

It takes a surprising amount to make people step outside the laws of an institution.

STM · #89 08-16-2011, 12:20 PM

Or forty years of Conservatives slowly experimenting the shit out of society until it collapses into a voracious black hole of failed multiculturalism, government cuts, a generation without work and masses of young people with nothing to do nor an interest in education. That's what fuelled the initial upset on day one perhaps, with that guys death as the trigger, but what followed, was just unprecedented wanton violence.

Goresplatter · #90 08-16-2011, 01:56 PM

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If people riot not because they're dissatisfied but simply because they're bad people, then why don't riots break out all the time?

This is the crux of it. The riots are breaking out now because they have (what they perceive to be) an excuse. A couple of people are doing it, and now crowd mentality leads the idiots to follow them along. What kind of points are these people trying to prove when they loot and destroy the property of innocent bystanders?

I don't know. But I'll tell you what point they're proving to me. That they're the scum of today's society, and should be dealt with thusly.

And not sympathised with. Get it?