Abortion -

OANST · #61 06-16-2009, 12:01 PM

Yeah.... I won't read all of that.

T-nex · #62 06-16-2009, 12:05 PM

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Yeah.... I won't read all of that.

Well I guess this explains it ^^

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EDIT: oof... all these thoughts haven't completely fallen into place inside me yet, so excuse me if they were unorganized....
But what I meant to draw out from all this is: Since there is universally no right or wrong, but what feel feel inside ourselves... Then what agreement could we possibly come to that would make everyone happy?

OANST · #63 06-16-2009, 12:07 PM

Wouldn't go so far as to call abortion "wrong". There are too many grey areas. I guess "mostly ill-advised" is about where I stand with it.

Havoc · #64 06-16-2009, 01:28 PM

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That's such a terribly cynical point of view. It's not being stupid to choose to nurture the new life you've begun to create despite whatever circumstances, it's selfless and compassionate. I'm sure you don't think all cases are the same, but doing something you believe is right no matter however it inconveniences you doesn't make it stupid. People don't always do things because their religion or authority makes them.

If I was in the situation of having an unintended pregnancy without the means to raise the future child properly or if it meant compromising my own ambitions, I would choose to have the child, if I had any say in it, that is. I would let the mother make the call.

Please explain how having a kid while knowing you don't have the means to raise it is selfless? You bring a life into this already fucked up world just to tell it "Sorry, you were never meant to be born in the first place and we don't have money to raise you properly, but hey at least you're alive."

I do believe it is stupid to do something against your will if you have a clear choice of not doing it handy. I would not give up my own life for anyone, be it catching a bullet or throwing away my future for a kid I never wanted. If my GF would get pregnant and refuse to abort despite my wishes, she can just have her baby by herself and I'll run off to Vegas.

moxco · #65 06-16-2009, 01:43 PM

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I kill millions of potential babies every day when I have sex or jerk off. I don't hear anyone complaining about that? So where DO we draw the line, anyway?

STFU! Unless you have no idea about the human anatomy (In which case I fell sorry for you) you should seriously shut up. This is a serious discussion. Making unfunny jokes about destroying life form is just fucking retarded.

And in the case that you have no knowledge of your own genitals, sperm are not babies. They are just little troopers who swim around with your DNA to give to the egg. If killing sperm is like killing a baby then cutting your skin (cells) must be like killing a baby too?

Wings of Fire · #66 06-16-2009, 01:43 PM

ITT: We find out how much of a man Havoc is.

T-nex · #67 06-16-2009, 01:54 PM

If child has been born(wanted or unwanted) there is no way to reverse it, and it's not a bad thing. All lives are equal, and all lives will go through significant stuff.

Going through pregnancy even though it wasn't intended is a great thing. Of course it's really annoying with parents who don't care, but once that baby has been born... All we can do is hope for the best... or help.
Eventually these people will meet some good or bad people, and being 'privileged' aka being born intentionally doesn't make someone worse or better at life.. In the end, the strong will survive on their own.

It would be really ideal if people didn't get into the situation of having to consider an abortion. But the people themselves will know if they can go through it or not.
Also as i tried to say before, a bad background doesn't mean bad life. Many poor people have gone rich from something they came up with and stuff.

Things in life just happen.. there is no reason why they happen. It's just a chain reaction from earlier events. The important thing is how we handle things.

So I don't think it's right to say that people HAVE to abort a baby if they dont have alot of money or if it wasn't intentional. Women should have the freedom to decide what happens with their body. That goes both ways regarding the abortion issue.

OANST · #68 06-16-2009, 02:51 PM

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Please explain how having a kid while knowing you don't have the means to raise it is selfless? You bring a life into this already fucked up world just to tell it "Sorry, you were never meant to be born in the first place and we don't have money to raise you properly, but hey at least you're alive."

I do believe it is stupid to do something against your will if you have a clear choice of not doing it handy. I would not give up my own life for anyone, be it catching a bullet or throwing away my future for a kid I never wanted. If my GF would get pregnant and refuse to abort despite my wishes, she can just have her baby by herself and I'll run off to Vegas.

I thought tigers couldn't be impregnated by goofy nerds. Man, you learn something new every day!

Daxter King · #69 06-16-2009, 04:19 PM

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ITT: We find out how much of an ignorant, selfish moron Havoc is.

Fixed.

I dont like abortion, but like others, I believe its up to the mother. There is no one that should decide that other than her.

used:) · #70 06-16-2009, 06:53 PM

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Please explain how having a kid while knowing you don't have the means to raise it is selfless? You bring a life into this already fucked up world just to tell it "Sorry, you were never meant to be born in the first place and we don't have money to raise you properly, but hey at least you're alive."

I do believe it is stupid to do something against your will if you have a clear choice of not doing it handy. I would not give up my own life for anyone, be it catching a bullet or throwing away my future for a kid I never wanted. If my GF would get pregnant and refuse to abort despite my wishes, she can just have her baby by herself and I'll run off to Vegas.

It's selfless because they're choosing to do what they think is right and not what they necessarily want. The world has never been great, but it's the only one we have. Life is precious. Just because there's 7 billion people on the planet doesn't mean any individual life is less valuable. That's why people should procreate less and adopt more. Even so, unintended children don't necessarily lead sad lives. I was an accident, my mom raised me herself on a small income and my dad's never paid child support. None of our lives have been any less enjoyable.

joshkrz · #71 06-16-2009, 07:16 PM

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I was an accident, my mom raised me herself on a small income and my dad's never paid child support. None of our lives have been any less enjoyable.

Exact same here. The contraceptive pill and a condom wasn't effective enough.

My dad fucked off when I was six and now has his new family, funnily enough he forgot about his old one.

So I don't know about this abortion thing now you made me think about it more :\

Havoc · #72 06-16-2009, 10:06 PM

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STFU! Unless you have no idea about the human anatomy (In which case I fell sorry for you) you should seriously shut up. This is a serious discussion. Making unfunny jokes about destroying life form is just fucking retarded.

And in the case that you have no knowledge of your own genitals, sperm are not babies. They are just little troopers who swim around with your DNA to give to the egg. If killing sperm is like killing a baby then cutting your skin (cells) must be like killing a baby too?

We were talking about POTENTIAL babies. Every sperm is a potential baby since every sperm has the chance of being the one that impregnates the egg. So how about you do away with the condescending tone and STFU yourself?

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I thought tigers couldn't be impregnated by goofy nerds. Man, you learn something new every day!

Har Har!

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Fixed.

If you only find this out now you haven't been here for long. Just goes to show how bad you people know me

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***Alcar*** · #73 06-17-2009, 01:16 AM

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, and furthering Havoc's comments - why do you consider sperm not to be on par with ovum? They are, after all, both necessary for an embryo to develop.

However, it isn't difficult to understand why more attention is devoted to the wanton loss of an embryo (and later, fetus) - we associate reproduction much more intimately with females (for obvious reasons). On a lesser scale, we know that ovum are in limited supply; where as males can produce sperm well into old age.

The composite of abortion law, I imagine, would be a return to stricter days of past where religious dogma forbade (and stills does) male ejaculation outside of procreation. How many males on OWF (let alone the world) would welcome restrictive legislation concerning masturbation?

In before public acts of indecency!

Alcar...

Havoc · #74 06-17-2009, 02:06 AM

Would that mean a women kills a baby every time she has her period?

AlexFili · #75 06-17-2009, 02:40 AM

For my thoughts on abortion; It needs to be legal, otherwise thousands of women would die from illegal operations from street doctors. It's better to abort the baby before it's born rather than just dump the baby once it's born. Think of all the trouble the midwives and doctors who spend all that time and effort assisting the mother give birth. All that effort is completely wasted if they just decide to dump the baby or (heaven forbit) beat the crap out of the baby. Think about what's best in this case; Aborting the baby out of mercy or letting the baby/child live a horrible life where they are unwanted, beaten up, left for dead.

What about young girls who are not ready for a baby or are raped? If they don't have an abortion their life will almost certainly be ruined. I'd rather pick the lesser of two evils in this case. Giving up the baby for adoption isn't straightforward either due to all the legal hassle and the dreaded "who is my real mummy/daddy?" chat.

The "Every Sperm is Sacred" viewpoint is just ridiculous, let's not lose point of what's important here. Potential life is a bit of a skeptical viewpoint in my opinion.

Case in point: Every piece of food that's gone past it's sell-by-date is "potential food". Just because it 'was' food doesn't mean it's desirable anymore. I would rather bin it than become ill by forcing myself to eat it. Potentials and what-ifs aren't worth considering, simply because most don't actually happen. If you keep thinking about what MIGHT happen, you will waste your entire life worrying about things that do or do not happen.

Note: These views are my own and I do not impose them on anybody. You can choose to ignore my post if you like and carry on your life as if you had never read it.

***Alcar*** · #76 06-17-2009, 03:39 AM

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Would that mean a women kills a baby every time she has her period?

I knew I forgot to address something important in my last post.

Of course not - it's natural. Before someone brings it up, I also know that nocturnal emissions, retrograde ejaculation, etc, are also natural (though unusual in the case of RE).

You bring up a good point though - as males can abstain from ejaculating.

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The "Every Sperm is Sacred" viewpoint is just ridiculous, let's not lose point of what's important here. Potential life is a bit of a skeptical viewpoint in my opinion.

Ah, but '(potential) life' is a major factor in abortion ethics. I was merely pointing out the composites at the absurd end of the spectrum.

Alcar...

Havoc · #77 06-17-2009, 09:35 PM

Luckily I doubt abortion clinics will ever go away, mostly because of the points Alexfeli made. In this day and age there will always be people who live differently than you, so there will be (and should be, in this case) an industry for these people. If not, we go back to the dark ages.

So people can protest all they want, it won't change a damn thing. Take away abortion clinics and girls will get out the trusty rusty coat hanger or throw themselves down a stairs. And as a pro-life activist you should be thinking about consequences before you open your mouth to say something. Some girls just don't want anyone to know they have been raped or gotten pregnant some other way and will much rather jump off the Empire State Building and have the evidence splattered all over the pavement than they would give birth and put it up for adoption. Is that really a sacrifice pro-lifers want to make?

bobtheguy · #78 07-01-2009, 02:40 PM

here's my oppinion
Abortion SHOULD be legal
Abortion is bad, I would never tell anyone to get one, if you don't want to have a kid then just go find a nice man and women couple (who can afford to raise a kid) who's always wanted to have kids but can't, and then let them adopt your kid (right when the kids born)

OANST · #79 07-01-2009, 02:59 PM

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go find a nice man and women couple

Nice of you to specify that it has to be a man and woman. God knows those sinful gaybos couldn't raise a child.

Strike Witch · #80 07-01-2009, 03:11 PM

I'd rather force people to adopt rather then have new children. Lord knows we have enough poor homeless orphans.

bobtheguy · #81 07-01-2009, 03:14 PM

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I'd rather force people to adopt rather then have new children. Lord knows we have enough poor homeless orphans.

I highly disagree.

Wings of Fire · #82 07-01-2009, 03:16 PM

Care to give reasons?

OANST · #83 07-01-2009, 03:22 PM

Not to the sinful gaybos he doesn't.

Anyone notice that he didn't refute my statement? Veeeeery interesting.

bobtheguy · #84 07-01-2009, 03:26 PM

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Care to give reasons?

I don't want some other guys baby, I want my own. I's my choice to adopt or have my own.

OddjobAbe · #85 07-01-2009, 03:31 PM

Yes, I know what you mean. Fuck the poor buggers without parents, eh? If they don't like it, they can lump it.

bobtheguy · #86 07-01-2009, 03:37 PM

what!??? that's not what i meant, i was just saying that i would rather have my own kid then adopt another one.

OddjobAbe · #87 07-01-2009, 03:43 PM

Does it matter? You'll end up with a person no matter what. You can't just say "Well, that kid's just grand, but I tell you what - why don't we make our own?".

Wings of Fire · #88 07-01-2009, 04:06 PM

It's kind of hardwired in our programming for it to matter, but it shouldn't really matter. The child you raise is your own, genes have nothing to do with it.

used:) · #89 07-01-2009, 06:47 PM

Yep.

Nurture > Nature

Anonyman! · #90 07-01-2009, 07:27 PM

Oh god yes.