They come here illegaly, so give them rights!

[6-finger-fred]

America is a country founded on bloodshed, but so was every other country.
England was founded by the vikings, later the Normans, invading and killing the Saxons. Germany has been founded on the barbarians killing each other, then the Romans, finally turning into the Holy Roman Empire, and killing more people. There is not one civilization without war.

If you don't like them hopping the fence, don't make signing the papers nearly impossible.

[mitsur]

America is a country founded on bloodshed, but so was every other country.
England was founded by the vikings, later the Normans, invading and killing the Saxons. Germany has been founded on the barbarians killing each other, then the Romans, finally turning into the Holy Roman Empire, and killing more people. There is not one civilization without war.

If you don't like them hopping the fence, don't make signing the papers nearly impossible.

First of all, the war part was completely irrelavant.

Second of all, if we made signing the papers easy, anyone and everyone could get in. And that's BAD, if 9/11 didn't tell you that.

Oh god, I just brought in 9/11. What have I done?

[SeaRex]

I think his point is that the Netherlands may have been their first but you can't trace any of the cultural or legal roots back there. After all, citizens of the USA speak a form of English and when courts need legal precedent older than a few hundred years, they go to British law.

This is exactly what I meant.

Besides, I do know my history, thank you very much. As I said before, I'm aware that there was quite the clusterfuck of European settlements before the English took total control. However, the fact that the English Colonies formed the modern United States is indisputable. I never said that Holland didn't get to America first, so maybe check that elitist snob tone of yours and quit accusing people of not knowing their own history.

Oh god, I just brought in 9/11. What have I done?

Ruined the conversation. Jerk.

[6-finger-fred]

1. I meant that to be faced into the people talking about who formed the country, which also seems inrrevelant.

2. You have a good point. But that is in the past, immagration is the present. So let's erase the mistake of bringing that up, shall we?

One thing is this is a two sided issue. One side of me agrees with you, it really does, but the other side is telling me that we need to help them. We could at least assist them in reparing their country. We seem compelled to do that in to Middle East.

[snuzi]

Anyone who has Sowtime on Demand should watch the Penn and Teller episode regarding this matter. It's quite interesting, and could possibly make you think about this situation differently.

[Havoc]

This is exactly what I meant.

Besides, I do know my history, thank you very much. As I said before, I'm aware that there was quite the clusterfuck of European settlements before the English took total control. However, the fact that the English Colonies formed the modern United States is indisputable..

Absolutely agree with that. I was just saying that they couldn't have done so without the rest.
In any case it's quite clear that the English colonies build America because the country is ran on the exact same idea as back then: WHEE WHEE WHEE we don't have to listen to anyone and if we want something we take it by force.
More then 200 years and not a thing has changed. God bless America .