Children Sexually Abusing Each Other - Who is wrong here? Society or the kids?

[Dino]

I still think you should outline your arguments properly, since the subject matter has moved on quite rapidly from the original titles point. Which is about sexual abuse.

No I think I've outlined them enough, and I don't agree that it has moved on at all. I think we're still chewing over the same cud. The subject and core of the discussion is still the same. This was never about sexual abuse. The title of the thread only says "Abusing" because I couldn't think of another word for it, and it's basically what the article I pointed out said.

Besides that, all the points that I wanted to make have been made several times over, both by myself and numerous other people, namely Caracal and Max, who have both made some superb contributions.

[Jacob]

You have moved on. The initial statement was about children exploring their sexuality, this then moved on to the age of consent being abolished and adults being allowed to have relations with children.

To actually get back to the point (the one that is completely different to the title 'Children sexually abusing each other', and is more akin to 'Children exploring their sexuality'), i have no problem with a child who is fully sexually developed exploring it's sexuality with it's peer group. I do, however, see a problem with adults getting involved and children of a younger age doing things they're not physically mature enough for.

If we can stick to this line of topic instead of deviating to Paedophilia, or the age of consent, then an argument can be put across far better.

To Carc - okay, so children from the age of three years old can experience orgasms, i fail to see how allowing children of this age to have sex would be a responsible thing to do.

Finally, what exactly is the rush? You all bring up the fact that sex is enjoyable et al, but surely allowing children (11-) to do it would only make them do it constantly, which would, potentially, run the risk of them becoming "addicted". In a responsible society, sex shouldn't really matter. I personally couldn't give a tap-dancing shissen whether i was going to have sex or not in the next year, it's not one of my priorities and i doubt it will be. And discussing it as if it's something that will help society in some way is fairly immature. I've repeatedly read that it would somehow make a society a better place if we could just screw each other...

Erm, how?

[Jacob]

I can't be bothered to edit.

Somebody drag up Volsungs idea, it was in a topic a while a go and it was sort of like a "Court room game". I think it'd suit some of the previous topics, including this one, fairly well.

[Dino]

You have moved on. The initial statement was about children exploring their sexuality, this then moved on to the age of consent being abolished and adults being allowed to have relations with children.

To actually get back to the point (the one that is completely different to the title 'Children sexually abusing each other', and is more akin to 'Children exploring their sexuality'), i have no problem with a child who is fully sexually developed exploring it's sexuality with it's peer group. I do, however, see a problem with adults getting involved and children of a younger age doing things they're not physically mature enough for.

If we can stick to this line of topic instead of deviating to Paedophilia, or the age of consent, then an argument can be put across far better.

To Carc - okay, so children from the age of three years old can experience orgasms, i fail to see how allowing children of this age to have sex would be a responsible thing to do.

Finally, what exactly is the rush? You all bring up the fact that sex is enjoyable et al, but surely allowing children (11-) to do it would only make them do it constantly, which would, potentially, run the risk of them becoming "addicted". In a responsible society, sex shouldn't really matter. I personally couldn't give a tap-dancing shissen whether i was going to have sex or not in the next year, it's not one of my priorities and i doubt it will be. And discussing it as if it's something that will help society in some way is fairly immature. I've repeatedly read that it would somehow make a society a better place if we could just screw each other...

Erm, how?

The subject is about sex and society, and I've already told you this - although it begins with the example of children having sex with children, it's more about the broader picture, the "what if?" implication that society may be overreacting to what is simply normal and natural behaviour - the "who is wrong here?" question on the end of the title should've given that away to you. Basically, the title should be, "Is society wrong about sex?". AND THAT IS THE LAST TIME I WILL BE DISCUSSING THE TITLE AND SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD. I DID NOT PUT IT HERE FOR US TO HAVE A STUPID NONPRODUCTIVE OFFTOPIC DISCUSSION. Like I said I've already told you this once before.

And Jacob, could you please try to be less closed minded? I'm hardly inclined to continue a debate with you if all you're going to do is stubbornly defend your point by desperately hunting for faults in other people's points. To be honest you've not shown me any valuable or credible evidence for your argument, and so far the only convincing points that I've seen made have been those FOR, not against.

[Statikk HDM]

Why should the age of consent be 18. Because at this point people are legally acknowledged to be mature enough to enter into adult things like military service and legally binding contracts on their own.
Secondly, the last thing this world needs is more bastards spawned by bastards who will go on to spawn more bastards. I'm sorry that the language is harsh, but the data is there. People who conceive children before marriage or underage in a broken home are far more likely to do the same damn thing. I'm sorry, but I don't feel like helping an already gigantic problem with bastardity(is that a word? Well it is now.)
Thirdly, just because something is consensual doesn't mean it can't mess your life up. Kinky sex and the buying and selling of drugs are consensual, victimless acts and in the latter case crime. They still can damage people.
/not against drugs or kinky sex. Just gotta be 18 and 21.

[Jacob]

'and so far the only convincing points that I've seen made have been those FOR, not against.'

Yes, because every against argument people put across you seem to retort with "Oh no, that's society implementing that idea in you. No. Be quiet now"

Thinking about it, i think that society is too harsh. But it has a point. It's not exactly healthy to allow 3 year olds to have sex, and you can bring up as many scientific theories that go against that as you like, but i can guarantee there'll be some other one's that will go against them. The best thing to do is to look at the affects that consensual adult-minor sex has on the minor, and in all cases it has an adverse affect on the child.

'I'm hardly inclined to continue a debate with you if all you're going to do is stubbornly defend your point by desperately hunting for faults in other people's points.'

I'd hardly call it "hunting" when the faults themselves are pretty evident.

Though i can see your points, the fact of the matter is that it'd never work ever in this day and age. Firstly you would need to purge societies stomachs of all the Lesser Orders. Then you'd need to stop people from taking advantage of them and then you'd have to make it so they didn't listen to peer pressure.

Is society or the kids in the wrong? Neither are.

[Dino]

Yes, because every against argument people put across you seem to retort with "Oh no, that's society implementing that idea in you. No. Be quiet now"

That's because so far a lot of people have just said "sex with children is bad" - that isn't what it's about. People have been really struggling to explain why sex with children or among children is bad, and most (including yourself) have come up with highly unsatisfactory excuses involving innocence, responsibility, ability to choose, psychological effects, and other sorts of nonsense. It's just clutching at straws, there's no hard evidence that has been offered, just speculation, and it's showing that rather than look at it objectively, and neutrally, you're coming at it from the perspective of someone who has already made their mind up about it. Debates do not work if you're closed minded or you've already made your mind up.

Thinking about it, i think that society is too harsh. But it has a point. It's not exactly healthy to allow 3 year olds to have sex.

There you go again. WHY is it not healthy to allow 3 year olds to have sex? What's your evidence for this?

Have you considered that maybe the whole reason why it affects people mentally and in a bad way is because they're constantly encountering other people who are telling them that it's such a bad thing? If enough people shake their head, tut, and tell you how horrible it is, you'll start to believe it and react to it accordingly. I firmly believe that it isn't the actions themselves but more the society that lives around those actions - if the values of your society say that having sex at a young age is bad, then you're going to feel bad about it.

Also, you could quite happily say that eating food with CDs could have bad psychological effects - the fact that there is no evidence to say that it doesn't, does not instantly mean that you can say it does. It means that it can't be proven either way, because nobody does it.

[Jacob]

'unsatisfactory excuses involving innocence, responsibility, ability to choose, psychological effects'

Yes, because responsibility, ability to choose and psychological effects are far from important when it comes to relations with children. Out of interest, in this "perfect society" where adults f*ck toddlers, who exactly makes sure it's consensual or not.

'There you go again. WHY is it not healthy to allow 3 year olds to have sex? What's your evidence for this?'

How exactly can it be healthy!? What can they gain from it? Where's your evidence that it is healthy, and how do you know that your evidence isn't biased? You say that everybody elses evidence is biased because of societies viewpoints, but then that's like saying our arguments are completely obsolete, even though a child who is molested from an early age thinks of it as normal until told otherwise. And even though he/she think it's normal, he/she still is f*cked up psychologically and mentally.

'Have you considered that maybe the whole reason why it affects people mentally and in a bad way is because they're constantly encountering other people who are telling them that it's such a bad thing?'

Because smokers have the exact same problem(!)

The Prince Edward Island had a little child abuse society going on there, and even in the instances where mental/physical torture wasn't going on and it was purely sexual, the kids were still f*cked up in the head and needed counselling.

Like i said before, whatever evidence you bring up, can be countered by evidence that somebody against such a topic brings up, and vice versa. But you really have got to ask yourself, who does the research to say it's healthy to have sex with children and why are they doing it? Could you be using research advocated by Paedophiles and Child molesters?

When it's all said and done, what's so wrong with protecting kids? So they're physically capable of reaching orgasm at an early age, what does that prove? Is society really that f*cked up that to make it right you're advocating sex with children...

[Statikk HDM]

I agree with Jacob.
(Head asplodes)

[Rich]

Secondly, the last thing this world needs is more bastards spawned by bastards who will go on to spawn more bastards. I'm sorry that the language is harsh, but the data is there. People who conceive children before marriage or underage in a broken home are far more likely to do the same damn thing. I'm sorry, but I don't feel like helping an already gigantic problem with bastardity(is that a word? Well it is now.)

Once again I say it.
"Just because most Americans don't know which bit the condom goes on"

Ok, maybe the UK has the highest teen pregnancy rate ever. But that isn't because of low consent laws.

[Jacob]

'Ok, maybe the UK has the highest teen pregnancy rate ever.'

It doesn't, it's the USA. But we have the highest pregger rate in Europe.

The reason being that both the USA and England are allowing Lower Orders to breed, it's disgusting. The USA has the Dizzy-rascals ("Mofo, i'll pop yo' ass!") both the Nigger kind and the Wigga kind. Whereas the British equivalent is Chavs.

Best thing to do? Cas. Tra. Tion.

Yes.

[Rich]

Dizzy-rascals

Oh yeah, the stupid Londoner, from 'the streets'. Boasts about being stabbed.
I still don't see what's wrong with the UK laws though.

[Esus]

Sub-par enforcement and too much freedom.

[Dino]

When I read your post Jacob, all I saw was accusation after accusation, stupid faulty comeback after stupid faulty comeback, error ridden statement after error ridden statement, misunderstanding after misunderstanding.

You've made use of words like "molest" "abuse" "pedophile"... none of these words apply. You wanted to know what makes your arguments obsolete? Well it's the inclusion of these words. You're talking to me and everyone else like we're advocating child abuse, and that's a really stupid, childish thing to do. Not to mention it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

You also admitted to being convinced that it's bad. So if you've already made your mind up, then go away. This is a debate not an argument. You're not supposed to just impose your views and attempt to convert everyone to it by being an asshole and shoving it in their faces.

So I'm not going to continue this until you either go away, or until you decide to play ball properly. Mainly because you've just taken the life out of the debate and effectively killed it, but also because it's impossible to continue this with you here just finding new ways of saying "YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG!" at everything we say. My opinion on this subject could go either way, but there is no way you or anyone else is going to force me into subscribing to one mindset or another. I'll make my mind up about this subject at a later date when you aren't here.

[Rich]

Sub-par enforcement and too much freedom.

With other laws maybe. Actually, next week I'm doing work experience at a police station. This station looks after some of the roughest areas of the city. Should be an exciting time.

Then again it depends on the people. I'd never happy-slap (or whatever the hell it is nowadays) someone randomly in the street and I'm pretty sure Dino, Jacob, you and all the other Brits on here wouldn't either. But 90% of the under 20's in the UK are quite happy to revel in this chav, lawbreaker lifestyle.

[Esus]

It's because they can.
i.e, sub-par enforcement of laws.

For example, my older brother is/was a chav. Not so much anymore because he's gotten older (just ignore the benefit fraud he committed earlier today...). Any repucussions for his vigilante behaviour? I saw none.

[Jacob]

'But 90% of the under 20's in the UK are quite happy to revel in this chav, lawbreaker lifestyle.'

It's because they're c*nts.

'You've made use of words like "molest" "abuse" "pedophile"...'

Yes, because in the instances i've brought up where children thought it was "normal" and "consented" child abuse was going on.

'This is a debate not an argument'

'Debate'
To deliberate on; consider.
To dispute or argue about.
To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.
Obsolete. To fight or argue for or over.

Shush now.

'You're not supposed to just impose your views and attempt to convert everyone to it by being an asshole and shoving it in their faces.'

Like you, you mean? Where you bash people down by telling them society has imposed that viewpoint and that they're wrong because they're not thinking properly?

'you here just finding new ways of saying "YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG!" at everything we say.'

You still haven't managed to prove whether you have a point to be considered wrong, yet.

'all I saw was accusation after accusation, stupid faulty comeback after stupid faulty comeback, error ridden statement after error ridden statement, misunderstanding after misunderstanding.'

Where exactly? So far all you've retorted with is "Society has made you think this way, think my way and then agree with me. Yes"

[Dino]

Jacob, hush now, and play with the toys in the sand quietly please.

[caracal]

Well, jacob....I do think you are missing why Dino is so intent on proving his points, mainly because all his points been nothing but shut down since it was posted, except for me and like one or 2 other persons

since until they reach puberty they wouldn't have any sexual feelings.

this was your main point until I came along, I proved wrong, and you didnt even notice, in fact you started arguing more agressively, like this

'This is a debate not an argument'

'Debate'
To deliberate on; consider.
To dispute or argue about.
To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.
Obsolete. To fight or argue for or over.

Shush now.

word definitions AND shush?, come on....someone who does this is clearly NOT, trying to see the other person's view, if you were listening to his ideas you wouldnt CARE that he mis-used the word, because you obviously did see trough his mistake and reach the meaning as it is made clear in your next post.

someone who quotes a definition and then tells the other to shut up DESPITE completly understanding his message is desperately trying to make the other person shut up. scratch that, someone who quotes a definition only to follow it with a shut up can only be trying to make the other person SHUT UP!.

You have moved on. The initial statement was about children exploring their sexuality, this then moved on to the age of consent being abolished and adults being allowed to have relations with children.

No Jacob, you have moved on. actually you are the one who keeps bringing up adults ****ing children, if we touch the subject to it is just to respond to you.

you keep bringing up things like age limits. I mean..really, what could be more arbitrary? whoever personally enjoyed being expected to do something because of his age? seriously, it's not like: hey, my 13th birthday*poof* WOW curses werent after all!! hey my 18th birthday *poof* YAAAY, now I dont get scared with violence anymore! and boy, is it important to not have unsafe sex!!

....humans just dont get automatic emotional/mental updates when they have birthdays because that kind of growth doesnt happen overnight, so inevitably you will be either more mature than the prediction, or less mature than the prediction which flat out doesnt protect anyone.

-if you are more mature than the age limits predict, you will either just lose respect for society's authority figures for imposing them, or think there's something wrong with you because you want to do something ilegal.

-if you are less mature you will resent and fear society for pushing you to do something you dont care for, you will feel weird for not wanting it, and become more conflictive .

it's just a LOSE/LOSE situation

if hearing curses scares you, it will probably take a LOT more than being 13 to get over it, I never cared etiherway, my mom is above 40 and she is the only one in the house who gives a sh!t eitherway, it would take years and years of very carefully designed reconditioning to make her change if it is even posible, not a freaking birthday cake.

I mean, face it, age limits are imposed by people who are scared of raising kids with lifes richier than theirs, becauseit will render them morally inferior if their kids do things they didnt, it's just something designed by scared uptight individuals, for scared uptight individuals.

I keep getting the feeling you are thinking of THIS society, it's like you thought we were saying " HEY, let's go out to kindergardens and hand out textless kamasutra coloring books!! we'll SAVE THE WORLD!!" no.

stop thinking of it as MY society, forget about that for a moment, just A society, just like you say the Greek society, think the representative democracy society or whatever you want to call it.Think of this more of in terms of individual vs situation. stop thinking of it as...person and kid get laid, kids goes out to society and *snip* think of just the effect that getting laid will do to this kid, whitout the society, witout the stranger, you're the only one bringing that up, most of us are just thinking of honest, continual sex education..and if anything kid/kid relationships. nobody ever touched the adult/kid relationship before you did.

you are so incredibly biased in your actions you have to be filled with rage to not see it because it's so exageratedly obvious it's almost cartoony:

Jacob:And i'm sure if it was natural we'd see some form of it in nature, in the shape of pre-pubescant Chimps fondling each other, when we don't, we see Chimps that are the equivalents of teenagers doing that, but never younglings.

Dino:Chimps HAVE been seen fondling each other. Chimps of all ages. Same with monkeys, gorillas, and so on. They all screw and fondle each other, brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, grandparents, literally everyone and anyone. It's quite repulsive, but it happens.

Jacob:So, just because animals do such things with families, are you saying we should allow such a thing also?
COME ON!!!

you propose a situation as a fact, you get proven astoundly wrong (not only their childs do it, but they do it with EVERYONE) and then you flat out accuse Dino of doing anything animals would because he posted the most logical responce to your unfounded speculation. THIS should is just way too evident for you to ignore. it not only proves your attitude, but that you are taking your prejudices as FACTS. which actually proves Dino right in his point of "society told you that"

It's also, in my opinion, pointless to bring up the animal agenda. Animals are a completely different specie to humans.

YOU BROUGHT IT UP!! Dino is blamed of being inconsequential because he responds yo what you bring up????

now, please...jacob, I think this flat out speaks for itself, I would like to belive your're someone I could talk to.

within all that abnegation and all that prejudice I did see some intersting points, such as that you dont think sex is so damned sensational, and yes, also your point about the emotional impact (even though I belive it is unfounded, it is thought provoking), but it just takes so many snap-back coments, and so many empty denials to get you to say anything intersting you do not allow an interesting conversation to go on.I do not want to be proven right every time I speak, I just want to tickle my mind with ideas that I dont get to speak about every day! I want to use conversation to explore and redefine my mindset.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
and now, just to get it off my chest and just release the tension, I am pretty amazed of how conditioned most people here is to automatically shut down new points of view, considering the series this forum is based on, first of all it tags you as a hardcore videogamer, one abnomrality, second one interested in plot and unusual gameplay, yet another sub-class of abnormality, third an unpopular and not well known class of game, another, fourth of the kind that can consider himself a fan very much like a "trekkie", and among that one who joins forums and actively discusses it, yet more rare, and even more so a relatively very unpopular type of forum.

after someone goes trough all this depth to discuss a simple fiction, I would think this person would be more open to something as simple as MAYBE kids should have some sex.

only 3 or 4 persons cared to consider the concept by itself( against it?, fair enough), whitout situating it in THIS society, all I could see was it's wrong it's wrong it's wrong....dont you remember hating your mom for her saying "it's wrong" about something she didnt even know shit about just because she was afraid of what bad things it could bring? dont you remember getting scolded for getting a violent game? have you gone wondering what it's like to scolding SO fast? do you even remember being a kid?......it is truly discouraging for me.

now, to something I found after this, jut after making a search for "child sexuality research" on google and finding only ONE site that wasnt about knocking down child abuse, and was actually about promoting a child sexuality book.

http://www.ipce.info/host/martinson/

damn good read I say.

[Jacob]

'if you were listening to his ideas you wouldnt CARE that he mis-used the word'

Oh, i didn't care, he was being a c*nt about it however, so i decided to be fastidious.

'DESPITE completly understanding his message is desperately trying to make the other person shut up.'

Oh no, you misunderstand. I was telling him to hush over saying that it was a debate and not an argument. Not for him to hush-up completely.

'actually you are the one who keeps bringing up adults ****ing children, if we touch the subject to it is just to respond to you.'

The first thing i mentioned in regards to this was what the difference was between consensual relations with a child and another child and consensual relations with a adult and a child. Dino then replied, i then replied, he then responded with "Oh, i don't see how a child can become f*cked up by doing something so natural" which then indicates that he himself doesn't find anything wrong between an adult and a child having consensual relations.

'humans just dont get automatic emotional/mental updates when they have birthdays because that kind of growth doesnt happen overnight, so inevitably you will be either more mature than the prediction, or less mature than the prediction which flat out doesnt protect anyone.'

So, are you saying we shouldn't have age limits?

'I do not want to be proven right every time I speak, I just want to tickle my mind with ideas that I dont get to speak about every day! I want to use conversation to explore and redefine my mindset'

Okay, that's fine.

'dont you remember hating your mom for her saying "it's wrong"'

I see your point and i partly agree with it when it comes to young adolescants. I just don't agree that allowing toddlers to do such things is right. My main reasons are the emotional, psychological and the fact they have only just learnt to speak. Talk about running before you can walk!

'do you even remember being a kid?......it is truly discouraging for me.'

See, i'd like to think i'd be quite a laid back and liberal parent. I'd tell my kids that sex isn't a really big issue, but if they want to do it then to consider it carefully. Kids already feel pressured and think that they're missing out on something, and by talking about it as if it's an issue, you're adding more fuel to the fire. Okay, it's enjoyable, okay, it's vital to our survival, but is it really THAT important? No. Get over it.

And out of intrigue, what're the chances that kids, if they were allowed to have relations with each other, would not only just continually do so, forgetting to do certain "kid" shtuffs, but also get tired of vanilla sex at an earlier age and thus would have to keep doing something more riskier and riskier to get their kicks. Just a speculation, but it happens with Drugs.

'but that you are taking your prejudices as FACTS'

Well, when we've used them with this society and we're still coping perfectly well, they can't be that bad.

'Jacob, hush now, and play with the toys in the sand quietly please.'

Only if you promise you won't try and rape me.

[Dino]

God I can't believe how freaking arrogant you are. Even after someone proves the points that I couldn't be bothered to, and does so in the most spectacularly clear and eloquent manner, you still carry on being an ass, defending yourself as if it hasn't actually been proved beyond any doubt that you were being an unreasonable irrational bitch. Is there ever a point where you just go "hmm, maybe I'm being a dick here? Perhaps I should just.. not?". Because you could sure stand to learn from this.

Jacob I am perfectly happy to accept that it's wrong for children to have sex, if you or someone else can prove entirely and beyond any doubt that it is wrong. But I'm not about to do that if you're just shutting down my points, refusing to see it from my point of view, and argue with me because you don't like me. To top it off, when you go out of your way to be a complete and utter dick, I am SO much less likely to even consider anything that you have to say. This was (and still potentially is) a really good debate, why spoil it by making desperate attempts to debunk and discredit ideas that you don't like? It just baffles me. Everyone was enjoying this, it didn't deserve to dissolve to this. I don't understand why you're so heartfelt about demolishing this discussion either, it's not like it's ever going to change society. Even if we have some sort of breakthrough about society's view of sex it won't ever really make child sex "right" in the opinion of the rest of the world. So why are you so against it?

[Jacob]

'Everyone was enjoying this'

Only myself and you were contributing the most. Carc flittered in and out, and my last post was directed at him and not you.

'refusing to see it from my point of view'

In most of my posts i have put "I can see your point, but..." so i'd hardly say i was refusing to see your points.

'why spoil it by making desperate attempts to debunk and discredit ideas that you don't like?'

Ah, of course, that's what it is! Desperation! Jeez, why didn't i realise sooner!

[Rich]

My God people! It's the Dino and Jacob show.

'Everyone was enjoying this'

Only myself and you were contributing the most. Carc flittered in and out, and my last post was directed at him and not you.

'refusing to see it from my point of view'

In most of my posts i have put "I can see your point, but..." so i'd hardly say i was refusing to see your points.

'why spoil it by making desperate attempts to debunk and discredit ideas that you don't like?'

Ah, of course, that's what it is! Desperation! Jeez, why didn't i realise sooner!

How about we get back to the topic which Dino keeps asking you about? Not petty squabbles about what you did or didn't do.

[Statikk HDM]

I feel like a fly on the wall and I'm seeing Dino and Jacob engage in a Lover's Spat(tm).
I thought this was relevant, thought
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../14/nwed14.xml
I'm not really braggin, I'm just showing you that it isn't just America's problem. We've actually got lower out-of-wedlock births and divorce rates than some European countries.

[Dino]

o_O

THAT WASN'T RELEVANT!

All that proves is that marriage before children isn't as popular anymore!

[Rich]

All that proves is that marriage before children isn't as popular anymore!

It's been like that for ages. My parents married when I was four. I went to their wedding.

[Dino]

Richard you bastard!

(heh)

[Rich]

Heh.

I never thought of it as bad.

[Dino]

Nah, I don't either. I just thought I'd put it in there anyway, see what happens. I don't think anyone really considers "bastard" to mean anything other than "bad person" these days.

[Rich]

Lol. It insinuates that your parents are bad. Bad for what? Fucking?
People fuck, so what?

My parents fucked and thats why I'm here.