Identity Politics, Feminism and Nationalism

[Havoc]

Have you PMed her a dickpic yet, Havoc?

Bitch I have more class than that.

[Sybil Ant]

Well you've yet to show any.

[Havoc]

Ooohhh edgy. I like it.

[Sybil Ant]

My dear, this is not edgy, this is me calling it how I see it. (◡‿◡✿)

[Nate]

Eh. Whatever the topic is, get back on it.

[Nepsotic]

This is the topic now

[MA]

NO NATE WE NEED A WHIPPING THREAD STOP OPPRESSING US

[Sybil Ant]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...medium=twitter

Thought this was an interesting article. Sort of proves that the media is creating legions of mindless spergs who are happy to believe that brown people are swarming their countries because it's an easy scapegoat for the wrongs of the world.

[Varrok]

Mind you, 5 million out of 66 million is still a great number. Also, the actual number is greater than that, as the goverment can't explicitly ask people about their religion, and not all muslim migrants particularily show any signs of their ideology.

Additionally, according to the research site they quoted:



the number is most likely to grow further.


Not to the 30% percent, yes. That 30% percent comes from a survey among the people. They asked them questions like: "What's the percentage of muslims in France, in your opinion?".

It's no wonder people got it wrong. Statistics are *not a matter of opinion* lol. This is really dumb. They might as well have asked them:

What's the answer to:



in your opinion?

and it'd be as facepalm-worthy as this.

PS: I also wouldn't trust theguardian. They posted the troll bait story as a real article

[Vlam]

Varrok is right. Also, keep in mind that more than half of French prisoners are muslims.

[Sybil Ant]

Vlam, are you a member of the alt-right?

I had something legit to say but my phone disconnect me from the internet five times and I just gave up writing the same post out again after loosing it. All ill say is, if so many Muslims don't display their culture or religion, why would you care, Varrok? Considering that half your arguments against immigration seem to revolve around muh integration?

[Nepsotic]

They do display those things. And, from looking at other countries it's pretty obvious they don't integrate well.

Also, is "the alt-right" the latest overused buzzword? I've heard it around and everyone who says it means something different.

[Sybil Ant]

It's just a PC way of saying 'fascist', i.e., using terms to stop the far right getting triggered.

[Varrok]

Is everyone who disagrees with you alt-right?

Also, Vlam appears to be correct

[Manco]

Mind you, 5 million out of 66 million is still a great number.

It’s about 7.5%, or less than 1 in every 10 people. When you consider that Muslims are the second largest religious group in the world (around 23% of worldwide population) after Christians, it turns out they’re very under-represented and not a very large group at all in the UK.

Additionally, according to the research site they quoted:



the number is most likely to grow further.

A projected rise of 0.8% from 2010 to 2020 isn’t particularly terrifying. Compare that to the 3.9% increase in unaffiliated people over the same period, which is bigger even than the 3.4% estimated rise of Muslim population from 2010 to 2050.

I’m sure somewhere there’s people crowing about how the atheists are going to out-populate the religious folk and murder them all, but we would dismiss that as silly scaremongering, wouldn’t we?

Not to the 30% percent, yes. That 30% percent comes from a survey among the people. They asked them questions like: "What's the percentage of muslims in France, in your opinion?".

It's no wonder people got it wrong. Statistics are *not a matter of opinion* lol. This is really dumb.

The purpose of the survey isn’t to gather accurate demographic statistics, it’s to compare public perception with the actual statistics. This is a useful comparison to do because it can give an indication of public opinion and perception – in this case it indicates potential biases, discriminations, and negative opinion of Muslims among the general population.

But please, continue with your dumb strawman.

PS: I also wouldn't trust theguardian. They posted the troll bait story as a real article

^{[citation needed]}

Varrok is right. Also, keep in mind that more than half of French prisoners are muslims.

France also has a very small prison population – 68,514, around 0.1% of the total population (France’s population is around 66.03 million people). When you have a very low population you’re going to get skewed statistics; add in that ethnic minorities are more likely to be over-represented in prisons, and France’s historically poor record of integrating Muslims, and guess what happens?

Also, is "the alt-right" the latest overused buzzword? I've heard it around and everyone who says it means something different.

I know right? We should just call them what they really are: fascists.

[Varrok]

It’s about 7.5%, or less than 1 in every 10 people. When you consider that Muslims are the second largest religious group in the world (around 23% of worldwide population) after Christians, it turns out they’re very under-represented and not a very large group at all in the UK.

7.5% is a big number. It's nowhere near as a majority, bit it's significant, especially for the culture from another continent. It's not like that 23% of the worldwide population comes from Europe anyway.

A projected rise of 0.8% from 2010 to 2020 isn’t particularly terrifying. Compare that to the 3.9% increase in unaffiliated people over the same period, which is bigger even than the 3.4% estimated rise of Muslim population from 2010 to 2050.

I’m sure somewhere there’s people crowing about how the atheists are going to out-populate the religious folk and murder them all, but we would dismiss that as silly scaremongering, wouldn’t we?

I bet there are atheists who'd gladly murder religious people if they had an opportunity. Being an atheist alone does not make you a civilized person like us.

The purpose of the survey isn’t to gather accurate demographic statistics, it’s to compare public perception with the actual statistics. This is a useful comparison to do because it can give an indication of public opinion and perception – in this case it indicates potential biases, discriminations, and negative opinion of Muslims among the general population.

But please, continue with your dumb strawman.

How saying the percentage of muslims in France indicates you're biased towards them?

^{[citation needed]}

Read it. The narrator gives valid arguments for the position then changes his mind purely due to virtue signalling from his friends whom he considered SJWs. The whole thing makes no sense.

Plus, there's that one guy who claims he made up the article as a joke. He didn't explicitly prove it, so that's in no way a hard evidence, but considering the inconsistent nature of the article, I find his claim very plausible.

France also has a very small prison population – 68,514, around 0.1% of the total population (France’s population is around 66.03 million people). When you have a very low population you’re going to get skewed statistics; add in that ethnic minorities are more likely to be over-represented in prisons, and France’s historically poor record of integrating Muslims, and guess what happens?

How big does the prison population need to be to satisfy you? 70 thousand people are a reliable sample for statistics.

Also, it's not France's fault the Muslims in prison weren't willing to integrate. Do you think the migrants would continue migrating to France if it was so hostile towards them?

I know right? We should just call them what they really are: fascists.

How does what Vlam posted make him a fascist?? Are you insane? I thought YOU were the one accusing ME of making strawmans.

[Sybil Ant]

When you posit a tongue in cheek question to someone but fucks fail to understand.





I'm like, "eh".

[Varrok]

There's a time and place for tongue-in-cheek questions.

The political threads are not the best place for them, though.

[Sybil Ant]

Didn't realise you were the fucking hermeneutics and mordancy police.

Double standards, when vlam does it (and oh boy does he do it), you don't give a fuck, because he agrees with you.

[Varrok]

Vlam has his own problems, but he didn't post anything misleading in this thread.

[Nepsotic]

It's just a PC way of saying 'fascist', i.e., using terms to stop the far right getting triggered.

No, it's your way of saying fascist, it really doesn't mean anything at this point. if you want to say fascist just say fascist and save the confusion.

Who's a fascist again?

[Sybil Ant]

I mean, no. It's literally a term coined by fascists because they kept getting all butt hurt when people called them fascists.

[Nepsotic]

Whatever dude I've heard it used tonnes of different ways by tonnes of different people. I thought it came about when right winger's didn't want white supremacists associated with their political leaning so they decided them to call them the "alternative" right.

Maybe we should call you guys the alt-left.

[Guillemot]

[MA]

Vlam has his own problems, but he didn't post anything misleading in this thread.

what the fuck does that even mean? we all have problems.

[Vlam]

Sybil Ant and Manco must think that Woody Allen's Paris is actually real.

[Manco]

7.5% is a big number. It's nowhere near as a majority, bit it's significant, especially for the culture from another continent. It's not like that 23% of the worldwide population comes from Europe anyway.

It’s only significant if you think that the population should be homogeneously native, which is completely unrealistic for any country with any kind of immigration system. We live in an interconnected world where people can cross borders, you’re going to have more diverse populations. If that’s scary to you then

I bet there are atheists who'd gladly murder religious people if they had an opportunity. Being an atheist alone does not make you a civilized person like us.

Um, OK?

How saying the percentage of muslims in France indicates you're biased towards them?

This isn’t hard to figure out: by surveying people’s estimates of the Muslim population and their rate of growth, then comparing those perceptions to reality, we can see if people overestimate those numbers. If they do overestimate, then we can compare that with the existing culture where Muslims are often demonized and we get into internet arguments about how them being a percentage of the population is scary or worrying somehow, and theorize that the wider anti-Muslim/anti-immigrant/xenophobic rhetoric that’s been on the rise the past few years is having an effect on people’s perceptions.

Put simply: if people are greatly overestimating the size of the Muslim population in their country, that’s a sign that they are worried about that population, and also that they have been misled about its size.

Read it. The narrator gives valid arguments for the position then changes his mind purely due to virtue signalling from his friends whom he considered SJWs. The whole thing makes no sense.

“Virtue signalling” is such a stupid insult, don’t use it. also lol if you think that article describes any valid arguments for hating Islam

Plus, there's that one guy who claims he made up the article as a joke. He didn't explicitly prove it, so that's in no way a hard evidence, but considering the inconsistent nature of the article, I find his claim very plausible.

Oh well a guy on Twitter claims he did it so it must be true.

How big does the prison population need to be to satisfy you? 70 thousand people are a reliable sample for statistics.

Except it clearly isn’t since it’s hugely unrepresentative of the overall demographics of France. You can’t draw meaningful conclusions about the population from such a skewed sample of the country’s population.

Also, it's not France's fault the Muslims in prison weren't willing to integrate. Do you think the migrants would continue migrating to France if it was so hostile towards them?

“France has well-known and persistent problems in some of its rougher suburbs, which tend to disproportionately lean Muslim. Poor schools, social isolation, and stigmatization mean it is hard for residents to feel like they have a future that involves a steady job and a path to somewhere better. These neighborhoods are often plagued by drug use, vandalism, and sometimes riots. This has been coupled with racism and Islamophobia that has marked people from every walk of life.”

It’s generally the state’s responsibility to tackle the issues described there – if one area of the community is disproportionately poor, isolated, poorly educated and stigmatized then is it unreasonable to think that the state should try to fix those problems?

How does what Vlam posted make him a fascist?? Are you insane? I thought YOU were the one accusing ME of making strawmans.

Please point out where I claimed vlam was a fascist or “alt-right” hint: I didn’t, I was replying to Nep

[LittleLamb]

Who even is a feminist these days? In First World countries.

[Sybil Ant]

Little Lamb is right, it's all just a trend.

[LittleLamb]

I'm all for trends. I'm a fucking Wiccan for Christ's sake.