Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark -

metroixer · #61 05-17-2011, 12:23 PM

I believe in a higher power that is most likely the god that people of the catholic faith believe in, but I also believe in the sciency stuff like evolution/big bang.

edit: and yes, I am willing to admit is that one of the reasons I believe is because I can't accept that nothing happens after you die. No one knows what will happen though, so it's not worth arguing about.

OANST · #62 05-17-2011, 12:26 PM

I am an atheist. That being said, I did some praying a few months ago. I prayed, and I begged god to return my family to me. I wept, and I pleaded. I promised to never say another word against him.

This says more about how upset I was than it does about the existence, or lack thereof, of a god.

T-nex · #63 05-17-2011, 12:28 PM

I guess in the end, the thought of someone watching over us and helping when in need is soothing.

But I seriously don't get what is so popular about the Christian god... Personally I find it.... lame...

DarkHoodness · #64 05-17-2011, 12:30 PM

Desperation does that to people. I will say that I once believed that the Universe was god. See I even wrote it just now with a capital letter... Uhm. Right.

Then reason caught up with me and I got confused by all the variables and stopped caring. But it is everywhere, its components created us, and we're all part of it. So you can kind of see where I was coming from.

metroixer · #65 05-17-2011, 12:31 PM

I thought Islam was the more popular religion?

STM · #66 05-17-2011, 12:32 PM

It's not yet but then, they believe in the same God as us.

Mr. Bungle · #67 05-17-2011, 12:43 PM

I believe that there is a lot to Religion than belief in God. Of course, that is always a big part of it, but I know plenty of religious people who don't neccessarily believe in God as much as they do the ideas and lessons preached through the Bible, or any other relgious text. They believe in science and the Big Bang just as much as any atheist, yet they still go to church and participate in religious ceremonies. These are the kind of religious people I like.

T-nex · #68 05-17-2011, 12:49 PM

I find religious ceremonies boring and... weird... Kind of like a weird assault on my personal space.

I like things to be bouncy and fun.

Mr. Bungle · #69 05-17-2011, 12:51 PM

They're boring as fuck, yet millions of people participate in them, often. I don't get it.

Wings of Fire · #70 05-17-2011, 12:53 PM

Christian sermons needn't be boring.

metroixer · #71 05-17-2011, 12:55 PM

:

They're boring as fuck, yet millions of people participate in them, often. I don't get it.

Because it helps some people feel good?

DarkHoodness · #72 05-17-2011, 12:57 PM

What a waste of time, I don't really get it either and I'm glad to know better than that.
Says the guy who spends most of his free time on his arse playing games. But at least they're fun.

But I suppose some people need to use that as an excuse to get out and socialise (after the sermons), and feel unified in a purpose with a bunch of other people who share their faith. So maybe I can see why they do.

Daxter King · #73 05-17-2011, 01:11 PM

:

What a waste of time, I don't really get it either and I'm glad to know better than that.

What an arrogant statement from someone who just a moment ago was arguing not to act like you know everything.

I believe in the Christian God, I also like science. That's all I really have to say about that.

Mr. Bungle · #74 05-17-2011, 01:31 PM

Then you're the kind of religious person I can stand. Good job.

DarkHoodness · #75 05-17-2011, 01:52 PM

:

What an arrogant statement from someone who just a moment ago was arguing not to act like you know everything.

I'll elaborate. What I meant with that was I know better than to go to church every week to worship a god - There isn't any need to do that in order to believe in something. Even though it may help some people feel unified in purpose as I said above, it still seems like a waste of time to me.

LDG519 · #76 05-17-2011, 01:59 PM

:

So, Stephen Hawking has dismissed the idea of heaven, saying that it "is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." Before he has kind've tip-toed around the idea of God, saying that if God existed, he existed outside of our universe and couldn't actually affect anything within our universe.

He has also recently said that no divine force was needed for the creation of our universe, rather tiny quantum fluctuations in a very tiny universe sowed the seeds for the universe we have today.

So. Science or Religion?

I don't believe in an afterlife. I don't think that a book written thousands of years ago, not even by the apostles, should dictate my life nor should it tell me what to expect after I die.

I also find it very difficult to believe that the big bang didn't happen and that someone created everything, including fossils just for the lulz. And despite not truely understanding the quantum physics involved in the big bang, I believe the lay version alot more than the creationist version.

- Rexy

so I havn't read every single post because theres a tone of them, so I'm just gonna sum it up the way I see it.

I belive that god does exist, however there are many elements of christianity that I don't agree with (like one life time of sin being deserving of infinate torture)

science and religion should not have to conflict, where it does either the science is faulty or the religion is wrong in that area, and since science is based on observation and religion is based on faith, science will be right in most cases.

stephen hawking didn't say god couldn't effect our universe, he just said that he doesn't seem to effect our universe.

I belive everything science has proven or is strong evidance to sugest it, I just belive that god is behind it all and science is discovering his methods.

Mac Sirloin · #77 05-17-2011, 03:07 PM

Neither. Both parties bring trouble.

Kinto · #78 05-17-2011, 03:58 PM

Stephen is just pissed off at God because he's crippled

***Alcar*** · #79 05-17-2011, 04:24 PM

:

I think it's bad form for the mods and especially the owner to be so unneutral.

I could certainly word my responses lighter and less blunt, but what you're asking is for us to censor ourselves.

If we were to abuse our positions and apply the rules in such a manner towards STM that it could be considered biased, then we'd be in the wrong.

Alcar...

enchilado · #80 05-17-2011, 05:29 PM

:

Stephen is just pissed off at God because he's crippled

I'm fairly sure you're joking, but you need to confirm that for me so I know whether to pos- or neg-rep you.

Kinto · #81 05-17-2011, 06:22 PM

:

I'm fairly sure you're joking, but you need to confirm that for me so I know whether to pos- or neg-rep you.

yeah... it's a joke

Mr. Bungle · #82 05-17-2011, 06:50 PM

:

Stephen is just pissed off at God because he's crippled

This is fucking hilarious.

LDG519 · #83 05-17-2011, 10:37 PM

:

Stephen is just pissed off at God because he's crippled

the biggest athiest in the world and look at the state of the guy (joke)

enchilado · #84 05-17-2011, 10:47 PM

you're a retard (joke)

LDG519 · #85 05-18-2011, 01:22 AM

I just went back and read through everything that I previously hadn't read before and thought I would leave my 2 cents worth despite the conversation lines being long gone by now.

I think in the case of STM supposed knowledg of an after life, although beleif does not substitute knowledge in the mind of the person who belives, they know until proven otherwise (for many years scientists belived and knew the earth was flat, until proven otherwise) on the other hand I can see how someone claiming to know something that he couldn't possably know can be easily interpreted as arogent.

this is a bit off topic but someone mentioned that if a metior hit it wouldn't stop the sun from setting, in most cases this would be true but in extreamly improbable circumstances it could change the earths rotation in a way were one side would continuously face away from the sun, preventing the sun from setting, however I think everyone would be more concerned with the extream wind than the earths rotation.

back on topic I do belive in an afterlife, however I have trouble comprehending hell, the Idea of infinate punishment for a finate amount of sin conflicts with a fair and just god, and I would prefer to belive that god is fair.

someone mentiond that church services were boring as, and you were spot on, the only reasons I still go is cause I have friends there and to avoid mum asking why I'm not going and dad trying to convert me back to the mormans cause he thinks my faith is faultering.

as I stated in a previouse post science and religion shouldn't have to conflict and were they do science will more often be right, some of the christian beleifs I dislike the most are:
the universe is only 7 thousand years old, despite strong evidance against it
and the nonexistance of aliens despite the larg size of the universe

that's all for now (dinners getting cold)

Crashpunk · #86 05-18-2011, 01:38 AM

Science, even though I don't know that much about both of them (I frankly don't give a shit) it makes much more sence then all religions.

***Nate*** · #87 05-18-2011, 03:18 AM

:

This. I think it's bad form for the mods and especially the owner to be so unneutral.

Following on from Alcar's post; are you actually suggesting that we must play the neutral mediator in any discussion? We did not attack scrabtrapman; in every post we were responding to a specific point that he had made.

:

I say "But we don't know the truth that's the thing." Because a lot of people don't, I do. Again, that's all down to believing in the word of God not arrogance.

I think that people have been a bit unfair labelling you as arrogant, but you do definitely need to learn the difference between knowledge and belief. I'm talking as someone who used to be a heartfelt believer in my religion and is now a self-described believer in atheism.

Frankly, the biggest problem in the way that you present yourself here is that you tell us with absolute confidence that you know that the afterlife exists, but also say that Genesis was just a metaphor. How can you possibly hold those two thoughts at the same time?

:

T-Nex, science and religion both prove the sun will rise tomorrow

If you forced an astronomer to give an entirely truthful and non-flippant answer, he would not tell you that the sun will definately rise tomorrow. He would tell you that based on thousands of years of history and models that have otherwise proved accurate, the balance of probability is that the sun will rise.

STM · #88 05-18-2011, 03:43 AM

I think it's cute that 22 posts after I stop posting I'm still the subject of a lot of talk.

Thing is I believe God exists but to me, some of the Bible, miraculous events and other phenomena are proof to me and therefore I have knowledge that he exists. This knowledge doesn't apply to everyone of course.

And any way, why are you people so intent on being angry at me? All I've said is what I hold true to myself, I'm not slamming my face against my keyboard because you lot are all atheists. Learn tolerance I say, it's a fantastic trait. (That's not just aimed at you btw Nate).

I think there's one person on this forum I wouldn't mind debating with again about this topic and that's BM because he has never spoken against me or religion directly he just uses scientific proof to back up his claims.

So I put it to you guys, where the proof God doesn't exist? And don't say because we can't see him because no one on this forum has ever 'seen' air, maybe scientists have developed an elaborate hoax for its existence and we actually don't breath anything!!! XD

Wings of Fire · #89 05-18-2011, 04:34 AM

:

Following on from Alcar's post; are you actually suggesting that we must play the neutral mediator in any discussion? We did not attack scrabtrapman; in every post we were responding to a specific point that he had made.

My gripe is purely with Alcar's tone, which trancends debating and goes right into being unnecessarily dickish, saying moderators plural was purely political.

God Alcar's a dick.

:

So I put it to you guys, where the proof God doesn't exist? And don't say because we can't see him because no one on this forum has ever 'seen' air, maybe scientists have developed an elaborate hoax for its existence and we actually don't breath anything!!! XD

We can see air particles, we can't see divine particles.

Havoc · #90 05-18-2011, 05:10 AM

:

So I put it to you guys, where the proof God doesn't exist? And don't say because we can't see him because no one on this forum has ever 'seen' air, maybe scientists have developed an elaborate hoax for its existence and we actually don't breath anything!!! XD

You see this table? There is a cheesecake on it. You can't see the cheesecake, you say? Well assure you it is there. I know it is there because there is a note on the table, right there, saying that there is, in fact, a cheesecake on the table. Why would the note lie? Surely if someone put an invisible cheesecake on the table it would make sense for that someone to put a note beside it saying there is a cheesecake, otherwise people might not know it is there and sit on it!

I'm crazy, you say? Well how about you just have a slice of the cheesecake then? Would that convince you? Mind you, you can't taste it, or smell it or feel it. It's a very special cheesecake after all. Eating it will make you feel better though, as long as you believe the note.

I'm a lunatic, you say? There is no cheesecake, you say? The cheesecake is a lie, you say? Well damn, the note is right there. Why would the note lie? If you say there is no cheesecake, go ahead and prove there's no cheesecake. I will bet you the rest of the cheesecake that you can't prove there is no cheesecake.

Why do you think you can disprove the cheesecake when there's clearly a note saying that it is there? That makes absolutely no sense to me. That's like saying there is no air, while we are all breathing it every day.

Please answer all the questions and we'll go from there.