Guinness World Record Hide and Seek Comes to and End

[Havoc]

So I heard he was already buried at sea with a proper Muslim tradition or something. I didn't expect the US to get rid of the body so fast, let alone dispose of it in a manner that makes it irretrievable.

Edit: Oh the traditions is why.

Osama bin Laden, the long-time figurehead of the al Qaeda terrorist network, has been buried at sea after being killed in a U.S. raid in Pakistan.

U.S. officials told CBS News that bin Laden's body would be handled in accordance with Muslim traditions, which include strict rules on burial taking place within 24 hours after death.

Sources confirmed to CBS News national security correspondent David Martin that his body was released into the sea from a U.S. Navy vessel on Monday, likely into the Indian Ocean.

Bin Laden was a Saudi national, but officials tell CBS News that the Kingdom was unwilling to have his remains repatriated.

He was killed in a U.S. raid launched early Monday in the relatively-well-heeled town of Abbottabad, near the Pakistani capital of Islamabad.

[Tadimo]

"Libyan government" is an oxymoron, things as they are. And sure, oil is a necessary and limited resource, but realistically speaking... what's the likelihood of the run-out-of-oil-by-such-and-such-date happening before viable alternative fuel/production/energy reach a large enough scale to comfortably sustain ourselves? If it's not the private market saving the day, than it'll be government funded research that makes the breakthrough. After all, there's *HUGE* international profit incentive for whoever can significantly help advance that area. Greedy ol' American loves its black gold, but it also loves its money, and science is a hell of a lot more fiscally efficient way to save the day than overseas wars. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, just a halfway decent economically cognizant politician.

I didn't say that alternatives wouldn't be found before oil "ran out", especially since those alternatives are available right now just not on the scale that's needed.

The problem is that there is still a fair amount of oil left, which means that some countries will go to great lengths to make sure their access to it is unimpeded using various justifications. Although now that I think of it the Libyan situation is really more of an example of the USA dodging their debts instead of paying up (but still realize they will get to have their cake and eat it too by keeping access to the oil without having to repay the debt).

Also there are other resources that will still be fought over when the oil dries up.

Being in a state of war is actually pretty advantagous for governments provided that it's handled properly:
1. It's much easier to rally people behind you in a common cause / against a common enemy
2. People don't mind as much when you introduce laws removing their freedoms (eg increased surveillance, arresting and holding people secretly without trial, etc)
3. It's a good boost to certain heavy industries who might just send more "party donations" your way for helping them out
4. It helps keep people distracted from other issues such as public healthcare ranking below various 3rd world countries

Of course for warfare to be viable long term the government needs to mostly engage in sustainable low intensity conflicts. The War On Terror is a good example of a potentially sustainable war however it appears that the USA are overstretching themselves a bit.

Anyways getting back on topic Osama deserved a fair trial so that he could have formal charges brought against him. However now that he's dead the only information the majority of people will have about his guilt will be from the media circuses that we've had about him at various points.

[Manco]

Osama bin Laden is dead, so let me tell you about all this oil

[Tadimo]

Osama bin Laden is dead, so let me tell you about all this oil

Allright, I admit I went on a bit of a tangent from the original topic

[Dixanadu]

I can scarcely believe it.

YAY

[Connell]

It seems a bit odd to me that they would go through with his traditions as if they're being peaceful and human about it if they just burst in and shot him in the head twice. It's quite scary the world is rejoicing about a murder. Even if it was of a terrible man. Obama is an idiot, killing Osama won't just magically stop everything, it will just make them more angry. It's like if loads of people have a disease, killing the first person who caught it doesn't make it go away

[T-nex]

It is scary.... I can understand being relieved that a dangerous man is gone. But certain people like friggin... Get happy from this. you people scare me.

[Havoc]

I'm happy whenever a religious idiot like that dies. No amount of prison or un-brainwashing will fix those people. The world is better off with people like this dead, end of story.

[Mr. Bungle]

I'm shocked more than anything. Can't say I'm particularly happy about it, but not exactly sad, either.

Also, like Havoc said, it's nice to hear the world is free from one more religious extremist. Especially one with so much power in his country. He did have a lot of power there still, right?

[OddjobAbe]

I think that his death is only going to exacerbate the problem, especially with all that footage of stupid Americans cheering "USA!".

[Havoc]

I think that his death is only going to exacerbate the problem, especially with all that footage of stupid Americans cheering "USA!".

I remember a lot of news footage of Muslims cheering in the streets when the WTC fell.

[OddjobAbe]

That's a different matter. I don't think that the religious extremists among those offended by that incident were as dangerous as the ones offended by this incident.

[Wings of Fire]

I remember a lot of news footage of Muslims cheering in the streets when the WTC fell.

AN EYE FOR AN EYE

LEAVES EVERYONE BLIND

[Havoc]

So that's a reason not to celebrate the death of a person that many Americans believed 'attacked their freedom'? No way, if you start going 'oh, if we do this we might piss off the terrorists' you're letting them win.

[OddjobAbe]

You can't disregard the consequences, because that's just utter raw stupidity. I think you're wrong anyway. I think that the only time a terrorist group can win is when their beliefs have been imposed on the rest of the world.

[Crashpunk]

I remember a lot of news footage of Muslims cheering in the streets when the WTC fell.

More of a reason that the Americans should be cheering in the streets at the minute in my opinion.

[Connell]

This whole thing is turning into 'the big kid pushed me so I pushed him back, then he pushed me etc..' Seriously that is not the way to resolving problems that exist in the world. And if Obama thinks killing someone then beaming footage of Americans cheering and screaming about it all over the world is gonna stop anything then i'm afraid he needs to be sectioned. Surely he must be aware of the vast repercussions his actions are going to have!

[Wings of Fire]

This whole thing is turning into 'the big kid pushed me so I pushed him back, then he pushed me etc..' Seriously that is not the way to resolving problems that exist in the world. And if Obama thinks killing someone then beaming footage of Americans cheering and screaming about it all over the world is gonna stop anything then i'm afraid he needs to be sectioned. Surely he must be aware of the vast repercussions his actions are going to have!

Obama does not control the state media!

Not even the liberal stations.

[Daxter King]

It seems a bit odd to me that they would go through with his traditions as if they're being peaceful and human about it if they just burst in and shot him in the head twice. It's quite scary the world is rejoicing about a murder. Even if it was of a terrible man. Obama is an idiot, killing Osama won't just magically stop everything, it will just make them more angry. It's like if loads of people have a disease, killing the first person who caught it doesn't make it go away

This whole thing is turning into 'the big kid pushed me so I pushed him back, then he pushed me etc..' Seriously that is not the way to resolving problems that exist in the world. And if Obama thinks killing someone then beaming footage of Americans cheering and screaming about it all over the world is gonna stop anything then i'm afraid he needs to be sectioned. Surely he must be aware of the vast repercussions his actions are going to have!

While killing Osama wont stop Al Qaeda, it will probably slow them down. He was one of their better planners and organizers, not to mention the overall symbolism him evading the US all these years had. Also, your analogy is terrible, if we dont push back, then well worse things happen. Look at how long they let Hitler push before the Allies did anything.

[Connell]

While killing Osama wont stop Al Qaeda, it will probably slow them down. He was one of their better planners and organizers, not to mention the overall symbolism him evading the US all these years had. Also, your analogy is terrible, if we dont push back, then well worse things happen. Look at how long they let Hitler push before the Allies did anything.

My analogy is far from terrible, it's very close to the truth which is the scary thing people don't want to admit. There are no signs of any halt to the war on terror, just signs of people making it worse. It's just two sides provoking each other more and more. I didn't say we shouldn't push back, I'm just saying that's is what's happening. Of course we shouldn't get trampled on, but our so called goal of 'peace' is far from achievable if our way of going about it is killing Osama Bin Laden, because that will just make them push back, again, and again, and again. Seriously, what are the chances of their not being a revenge attack pretty soon?

Obama does not control the state media!

Not even the liberal stations.

Fair, i'll take that part back then.

[Havoc]

It's not like there's much choice. We can either choose to ignore them, in which case they'll keep bombing places to get the attention they want. Or we can fight them in which case they'll keep bombing places as retribution.

Problem with fighting is that you'll never truly win, because there will always be someone with a vengeance for killing a family member or leader or whatever. Even if you were to nuke the entire middle east, you'd be signing the death warrant of the entire planet since every other nation with nukes will start using them instantly.

There is no real solution, but generally offence is the best defense. So until every single bit of religion in the world is exterminated we'll just have to go with that.

[mr.odd]

My analogy is far from terrible, it's very close to the truth which is the scary thing people don't want to admit. There are no signs of any halt to the war on terror, just signs of people making it worse. It's just two sides provoking each other more and more. I didn't say we shouldn't push back, I'm just saying that's is what's happening. Of course we shouldn't get trampled on, but our so called goal of 'peace' is far from achievable if our way of going about it is killing Osama Bin Laden, because that will just make them push back, again, and again, and again. Seriously, what are the chances of their not being a revenge attack pretty soon?

So what would you have proposed? Should they had just ignored him. I can understand being against killing, but that's what war is.


EDIT: They tried to take him alive, but that obviously did not work out.

[Bullet Magnet]

Hail Hydra, as they say.

At the moment for example the USA owes some money to the Libyan government for all the oil they purchased previously. Rather than pay the amount owing they decided to go for a slightly different payment plan (funding & arming a few local dissidents to try to destabalize the local government and then to directly help overthrow the government as the "heroes"). You may have heard about it

This is bullshit.

[Nemo]

So that's a reason not to celebrate the death of a person that many Americans believed 'attacked their freedom'?

There is never a reason to celebrate death.

[Tadimo]

This is bullshit.

Please see the following link for "MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF TREASURY SECURITIES (debt)":
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

It's an official document from the USA Treasury.

Libya is listed under Oil Exporters 3/, unfortunately though it doesn't give the specific debt amount for Libya.

I will provide a few other interesting things about the Libyan situation:

-The rebels created their own bank within weeks even before creating their own government

-The oil reserves in Libya are the largest in Africa

-The US and UK have been providing supplies to rebels for some time

-Qaddafi stated previously that he would provide future oil contracts only to China, India and Russia though he did make this statement after the uprising

-Qaddafi previously started a movement to refuse the US dollar and the euro and instead called on Arab & African countries to use a new currency called the gold dinar. Last year this idea was approved by many Arab countries and most African countries but was viewed badly by the USA and EU governments

-Libya's central bank is state owned and has nearly 144 tons of gold in its vaults

-Their central bank is also not a member bank of the Bank for International Settlements (BIS)

-Their oil industry is also nationalized

-All of this makes it much harder for foreign interests such as the BIS to interfere and screw over Libya's national economy to achieve their own ends

-While far from perfect, Libya's citizens enjoy free medical treatment that beats the US and other Western countries by a large margin,their education (including in abroad universities) is free, they get non-interest state loans, cars cost a lot less than in Europe, basics like petrol and bread cost next to nothing, there are no taxes for those who are engaged in agriculture, etc

I apologise for only mentioning the oil part and the debt previously though as there is much more at stake than that.

Back on topic: it also seems rather convinient that Osama's body has been gotten rid of so quickly; this means no possibility of future autopsies or investigations to find what what actually happened to his person.

[Nate]

So I heard he was already buried at sea with a proper Muslim tradition or something. I didn't expect the US to get rid of the body so fast, let alone dispose of it in a manner that makes it irretrievable.

I'm also surprised that they did it so fast, but the reason why they did at sea was to make sure that his grave didn't become a shrine to extremists.

[Tadimo]

I'm also surprised that they did it so fast, but the reason why they did at sea was to make sure that his grave didn't become a shrine to extremists.

That's a pretty good point also.

[enchilado]

At the risk of sounding like some crackpot conspiracy theorist, I think disposing of his body so fast is rather suspicious.

[Havoc]

I'm also surprised that they did it so fast, but the reason why they did at sea was to make sure that his grave didn't become a shrine to extremists.

That makes sense.

[Nate]

At the risk of sounding like some crackpot conspiracy theorist, I think disposing of his body so fast is rather suspicious.

To be fair, they had already done genetic testing, done an autopsy and taken photos. What else could they have done with the body to prove it to your satisfaction?