Bah! Which side is the one harassing in the first place? The Gamergaters. What you are saying very well may be true. But from what I've seen they are often bad guys. Really bad guys. Their behavior made them bad. Bad publicity just made them seem worse.
Fucking women's rights and equality. Who even wants that? Not me. I want to live in a world where I can demand women's tits 24/7 AND shame them for showing me.
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Oh yeah, fair point. Maybe he was just tortured until he lost consciousness.
STM, I try to refrain from saying this often but you don't half often say some dumb shit, do you?
If you can name me one single male privilege that I cannot debunk then I will concede this argument. Go for it.
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Bah! Which side is the one harassing in the first place? The Gamergaters. What you are saying very well may be true. But from what I've seen they are often bad guys. Really bad guys. Their behavior made them bad. Bad publicity just made them seem worse.
Then there's nothing more I can say to help you. You simply won't listen. You have your conslusion and you're going to stick to it no matter what. I'm done wasting my time with you.
If ever you decide to take your blinders off I'm going to leave you with the YouTube channel Sargon of Akkad.
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all Meechmunchie did by trying to troll me was distract from the fact you all have no regard for Hetro or their rights at all, none.
Then there's nothing more I can say to help you. You simply won't listen.
Great argument kid, I applaud you.
All I saw on that channel was him claiming that there is enough diversity and people are just being whiny, so, pretty much exactly what you've said, except even more mean spirited and obviously bitter that minorities/females would dare ask for a major role in some video games.
You say that SJWs are exploiting the threats aimed at them to get sympathy, to paint the other side as being filled with total creeps. Well guess what? Total creeps are the kind of people who send rape threats. And boy are there a lot of those rape threats. Usually directed at women, too. Huh.
Well guess what? Total creeps are the kind of people who send rape threats. And boy are there a lot of those rape threats. Usually directed at women, too. Huh.
Actually, it's also people who have been provoked by whiny fucktards who try to criticise and censor something they have no understanding of.
Now, I'm only responding to the top thing, because if I read any more of your bullshit my brain cells are going to start dying. This is like arguing with a creationist.
Anyway, here goes.
The gender wage gap... DOES NOT FUCKING EXIST.
Those studies are so unbelievably misconducted it's unreal. Of course women earn less, but that's the keyword, earn. Want to know why they earn less? Because they make different choices, go into lower paying jobs, have less motivation to persue high-paying careers (and roles such as CEOs etc) and take more time off than men.
This is all factually accurate, so of course when you take the entire gender and turn it into an average it's going to turn out less than what men earn, what did you expect?
The wage gap is a myth that has been debunked so many times it's unreal that people still use it as evidence of sexism.
You do realise that paying a woman less than a man in the same job role is illegal? And you do realise that, if women were paid less, nobody would hire men?
It's bullshit, you know it's bullshit.
This guy is good with studies, he goes more in depth about it, and cites all his sources.
Here is a feminist debunking the myth.
And here's some extra for good measure.
Done.
Next, anyone?
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all Meechmunchie did by trying to troll me was distract from the fact you all have no regard for Hetro or their rights at all, none.
Actually, it's also people who have been provoked by whiny fucktards who try to criticise and censor something they have no understanding of.
I somehow didn't notice this earlier, or maybe I unconsciously ignored it because it was so, so bad.
This is a great example of your morals, not only trying to justify this behavior, but also equating complaining about video games to a personal attack which could be responded to with a threat.
I didn't say it was justified. Nice straw man you have there. SJWs love straw men.
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Well for one there are more video games about men
Yes there are.
Sorry, do you have a point in there?
There are more fashion shows about women and there are more action shows for guys, there are chick flicks which objectify men, and encourage women to think they can do what they like with us.
There are advertisements that body shame young men into thinking they must be ripped, and that's just evil.
All bullshit. Just like the opposite side's arguments.
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all Meechmunchie did by trying to troll me was distract from the fact you all have no regard for Hetro or their rights at all, none.
There are more fashion shows about women and there are more action shows for guys, there are chick flicks which objectify men, and encourage women to think they can do what they like with us.
There are advertisements that body shame young men into thinking they must be ripped, and that's just evil.
A big list of other things that suck doesn't make one thing less bad. A massive amount of women are protesting their portrayal in video games. This is why there should be more video games that positively portray women. If a movement for men to have fashion shows came into prominence, I would absolutely be behind that, but right now that isn't a huge movement so there's not really much for me to say about it other than "I wish people would pay more attention to that."
Sometimes thousands of people take part in riots. Does that make said riots right? Also, you think this is important? Seriously? There's women genuinely being oppressed in middle-eastern countries because of Islam and these women could protest that, but no, that's racism.
Instead they say "Let's cry about the way women are portrayed in games we don't even play".
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all Meechmunchie did by trying to troll me was distract from the fact you all have no regard for Hetro or their rights at all, none.
STM, I try to refrain from saying this often but you don't half often say some dumb shit, do you?
If you can name me one single male privilege that I cannot debunk then I will concede this argument. Go for it.
Then there's nothing more I can say to help you. You simply won't listen. You have your conslusion and you're going to stick to it no matter what. I'm done wasting my time with you.
If ever you decide to take your blinders off I'm going to leave you with the YouTube channel Sargon of Akkad.
Being able to walk down the street without being cat-called?
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Oh yeah, fair point. Maybe he was just tortured until he lost consciousness.
Sometimes thousands of people take part in riots. Does that make said riots right?
No. But this isn't some kind of an immoral riot. This is a bunch of video game players saying what they think video games should be like. That's usually a thing that game developers like to pay attention to.
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but no, that's racism
Islam is not a race. Also, a ton of people are furious about that? It's been in the news pretty often.
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games we don't even play
I'm pretty sure that this only applies to Sarkeesian and barely anyone else.
It's a bunch of people who don't know anything about games.
Some of the most prominent figures in video game-related feminism are game developers, or play/review video games as an occupation.
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Also, you still haven't come up with a legitimate purpose for feminsm yet.
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There's women genuinely being oppressed
(oh my god you have to be pulling my leg here)
Feminism exists to have women taken as seriously as men are. On top of the massive issue of infringement of basic rights in foreign countries, as you mentioned, women and feminine qualities are not taken as seriously as men and masculine qualities are, even in ways that affect men and only men. Being feminine is often seen as making one weaker. This often applies to men. Saying a man "hits like a girl", or something similar, is an insult, and men who act "like women" are seen as jokes. Women are often taken advantage of for sexual reasons, for example catcalling, and the legions of douchebags who will jump at the chance to defend it. Do women catcall random men on the street? Nah, not really. If they did, would anyone be upset? Doubtful. A man being victimized by a woman is seen as pathetic, because women aren't taken seriously. This is an issue that harms both genders. Also, how many men are there in media that are created for sex appeal reasons? Waaaaay less than women. Way, way less. Women as a concept are largely associated with sex.
No one has ever made a game worse by asking for less hackneyed and sterotyped diverse characters. No one has forced game developers to do anything. Developers want to know what people would like to see in games.
Oh yeah? When's the last time you saw a feminist complaining about the way women are treated in third world countries, or actually doing anything about it? That's right, you don't, because they only care about themselves and the minuscule problems they face.
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Feminism exists to have women taken as seriously as men are.
Hmm, could've sworn it was for gender equality.
You can't say you're for gender equality and then focus on only one gender. That's fucking retarded.
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women and feminine qualities are not taken as seriously as men and masculine qualities are,
Evidence? Women often say men should be more 'emotional' and talk about their feelings more.
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Being feminine is often seen as making one weaker. This often applies to men. Saying a man "hits like a girl", or something similar, is an insult,
Which is perfectly reasonable in the same way that calling a woman manly would be insulting to her.
Don't forget the fact that females are generally weaker as they aren't the ones fighting for territory or hunting for food. In nature their job is to make babies and raise said babies.
Males are physically stronger (naturally) and this is where such stereotypes come from.
Also, the whole "Like a Girl" think is fucking retarded.
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Being feminine is often seen as making one weaker.
That's because it is part of the definition of femininity. Females ARE naturally weaker because they have no reason to be stronger.
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Women are often taken advantage of for sexual reasons
A lot of said women enjoy the attention. People like being complemented, especially when they've put effort into their appearance.
What's more, if these women are so "strong and independent" then why would they need a white knight like you and an entire movement in order to protect them from something as simple as being complemented?
That's right. It's feminism making women believe they are weak. Feminism is the one saying they aren't independent, and that they will be taken advantage of by the evil men unless they join the hive mind.
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Do women catcall random men on the street? Nah, not really.
Um, yes they do?
Just this morning I was watching This Morning lol and shortly before going into a discussion about how women are oppressed into not going into STEM fields or something (another bullshit argument), all the women in the set literally went over to this window to stare at a sexy lawnmower guy without his top on and whistle, and all that shit.
So yes, it happens. Frequently. And for some reason it's acceptable when the opposite is not.
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A man being victimized by a woman is seen as pathetic, because women aren't taken seriously.
Yep, I can definitely see your tiny little feminist brain working away in this comment.You always have to make it about women. Even issues that are clearly men's issues have to revolve around women in some way.
Men are supposed to be seen as manly and strong. They're supposed to hide their emotions and man-up. This is not about women. This is a problem for men, and nowhere are women concerned with it.
That being said, do you see us whining about society's impression of what a 'man' should be? No, we just get on with it and do what we like, most not caring about what other people's expectations of us are. And people are always going to have expectations of you.
Women are the ones that make a big deal out of these expectations instead of realising that they are a part of society and always will be.
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Women as a concept are largely associated with sex.
Yes, this is because we are animals and sex is a central part of our existence. Who cares if some women in media are flaunting what they've got? Isn't that empowerment? Because it's their choice that they do it, nobody elses. They want to do it because they like the money and the attention, so stop undermining them.
Here's a video on objectification.
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No one has ever made a game worse by asking for less hackneyed and sterotyped diverse characters.
This is not remotely what the point is.
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No one has forced game developers to do anything. Developers want to know what people would like to see in games.
Not necessarily. I don't give a shit about what people think should go into my game, for example. I know many developers that feel the same way.
On the former point, you're wrong. Feminists frequently put heavy social pressure on artists and people in the media to do what they want, and if they don't they'll be lynched by the feminist mob and they'll come out looking like the bad guys.
Sounds a lot like terrorism to me.
Right, now that I've put that to bed, next?
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all Meechmunchie did by trying to troll me was distract from the fact you all have no regard for Hetro or their rights at all, none.
That being said, do you see us whining about society's impression of what a 'man' should be? No, we just get on with it and do what we like, most not caring about what other people's expectations of us are.
Oh yeah? When's the last time you saw a feminist complaining about the way women are treated in third world countries, or actually doing anything about it? That's right, you don't, because they only care about themselves and the minuscule problems they face.
Stupid sweeping generalisation. Also, just because there is one extreme problem in another part of the world it does not cancel out problems people face in our country. If people thought like that there wouldn't be change.
Women are treated horrendously in third world countries but to say women in developed countries have "minuscule problems" you have to be extremely narrow minded.
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Evidence? Women often say men should be more 'emotional' and talk about their feelings more.
From my experience guys tend to have more of a problem with a feminine guy than any woman I've come across. As a guy growing up you're expected to like football, be good at sports in general and just naturally have masculine mannerisms. Any deviation from this and you automatically get called gay or a puff.
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Which is perfectly reasonable in the same way that calling a woman manly would be insulting to her.
Don't forget the fact that females are generally weaker as they aren't the ones fighting for territory or hunting for food. In nature their job is to make babies and raise said babies.
Males are physically stronger (naturally) and this is where such stereotypes come from.
These stereotypes don't really hold anymore considering we don't fall into those roles as rigidly as we used to. How can you reflect such a stereotype on modern society?
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A lot of said women enjoy the attention. People like being complemented, especially when they've put effort into their appearance.
What's more, if these women are so "strong and independent" then why would they need a white knight like you and an entire movement in order to protect them from something as simple as being complemented?
Wow did you really just say that? You have to be ignorant as pig shit to think like that. You can't derail the perfectly truthful statement that women are sexually exploited by saying they enjoy it. It's basically another way of victim blaming. Pretty much every woman I've ever gotten to know has had experiences of men acting inappropriately sexual towards them. This is a problem.
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Um, yes they do?
Just this morning I was watching This Morning lol and shortly before going into a discussion about how women are oppressed into not going into STEM fields or something (another bullshit argument), all the women in the set literally went over to this window to stare at a sexy lawnmower guy without his top on and whistle, and all that shit.
So yes, it happens. Frequently. And for some reason it's acceptable when the opposite is not.
Yeah it happens. Is it acceptable either way? Absolutely not. Does it happen just as often? I very much doubt it.
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That being said, do you see us whining about society's impression of what a 'man' should be? No, we just get on with it and do what we like, most not caring about what other people's expectations of us are.
Because men literally can and there are no repercussions to it!
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Yes, this is because we are animals and sex is a central part of our existence. Who cares if some women in media are flaunting what they've got? Isn't that empowerment? Because it's their choice that they do it, nobody elses. They want to do it because they like the money and the attention, so stop undermining them.
The point he was making wasn't about women making the personal choice to flaunt their sexuality, it's that women as a whole are associated with being sexual when it's completely unwarranted. Not only in video games when a character is literally used for sex appeal without having any other traits relevant to the game, but also in real life when women face sexual comments shouted from cars etc.
Reading arguments like these is always entertaining because no side is ever right. In order to "beat" the other side, both sides always go into an extremism-off. Making what's supposed to be an interesting and important socially-relevant discussion a shitfight between the far left and the far right. People never fucking learn.
Both have valid points, feminism is a valid thing because it's for equal rights. It's just that the term has been tainted by the more extreme feminists, those who said things like women being better than men and shit like that used to be called SJWs, before that term was also ruined by butthurt 14 year old kids who started calling everybody who didn't agree with their shitty worldview an SJW.
And Nepsotic is what? Justifying rape by saying the victims fucking liked it? Just because he doesn't agree with feminism? Jesus that is literally the worst thing I've read all week. Learn to fucking read FrustratedAssassin jesus you're so dumb
And vlam what the fuck do you even mean by that post
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Last edited by FrustratedAssassin; 09-19-2015 at 11:01 PM..
I gave up on this debate a while back when I realised that when people start with the conclusion they want and work backwards, no amount of evidence will change their minds.
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Justifying rape by saying the victims fucking liked it? Just because he doesn't agree with feminism? Jesus that is literally the worst thing I've read all week.
Are you fucking serious.
You fucking people, man.
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all Meechmunchie did by trying to troll me was distract from the fact you all have no regard for Hetro or their rights at all, none.
OK sorry, total fuckup on my side, I totally misread your comment. But point is, both you and SIADmander said some dumb shit and this discussion never leads anywhere except even more resentment.
The wage gap is a real thing that is often misrepresented by politicization that presents it as actually meaning women are literally paid less on the dollar than men. This is nonsense of course, minimum wage is minimum wage.
No, the wage gap is an indicator of a lack of compensation for child care, which generally falls to women. I'm going to pose an amusing question: Let's say all of these vitriolic antifem nerds started getting laid because standards briefly became meaningless. Nepsotic squirts a baby into some lucky lady's tummy and suddenly there's a bun in the oven. Does anyone here believe for a second that Nep would give up his viral videos and 4chan to take care of that child? Nope! We'd have another single mom juggling bullshit because someone couldn't wrap his rascal. I'm not shitting on you Nep, I couldn't/wouldn't want to care for a child in that position either.
Here's the source of my information, unfortunately it lacks nasally voices, neckbeards and has never stuck a banana up its ass so I don't know if nepsotic will like it http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763170.html. The Amazing Atheist is still an ignorant piece of shit and you should find someone smarter to listen to. Not me though, I'm busy.
The wage gap is a cultural problem symptomatic of the greater role of sexism (on the part of both females and males) perpetrated by selfish lowlifes with no self awareness whatsoever. It's impossible to see this when your only reference point is a viral video outlining everything you already want to agree with. Pick up a book for once in your incomprehensible life and gain some objective reasoning, or god damn you for wasting your brain on this antifem garbage. I'm doing you a favor by telling you ditching all of this internet culture redpill slime and developing your own views will get you laid within the year. No, the shiteaters on 4chan aren't right nep, why do you think they're where they are?
In the real world, unless you're in a sociology course with some real inspired individuals, none of this shit ever comes up. This nonsense attitude that women are implicitly conniving and manipulative is disgusting. It's almost too easy to address it as delusion, because I don't think there was a point where you actually had an understanding that could be corrupted. Seems like you just genuinely believe anything that has enough views, Nep, and that's a tragedy because you seem clever enough to see past the black and white bullshit and appreciate the bigger picture.
You'll have to forgive my condescending tone, the idea that some 'scheming whore' convinced some depressed little guy to commit suicide is laughable, but a really brief, tragic laugh. It's his choice, she's just kind of a naive asshole caught up in the middle of someone else's mental illness. I feel bad for them both, but unfortunately what's done is done. More annoying is whatever delusions of superiority over some broadly generalized group have been dredged up in this thread. No one is much better than anyone else and we're all going to crumble and die some day, so don't waste your breath recanting social devils that aren't real. Extremism and radical position taking is the enemy. Seek to be understanding before you are overwhelmed by the desire to criticize and analyze things that don't truly effect you.
I was wrong, dogs are better than every human. Dogs are stupid and they stink and they love it, humans are smart and try to be clean and constantly pick out new reasons to hate each other.
__________________ I see you jockin' me.
Last edited by Mac Sirloin; 09-22-2015 at 08:55 PM..
EDIT: God dammit. I had this whole edit written out and I lost it. Let me try to give you the play by play.
hey wow it ended up longer than my previous post look at that
See, I don't think Nepsotic is wrong. I don't think he's being disingenuous with his perception of women. I think he's been exposed to some really persistent negative perceptions that are hateful enough to be real.
I get your feelings on a lot of this stuff, and I really mean it when I tell you that Feminism doesn't matter in a way that will ever threaten the way you want to live your life unless you beat women or espouse pointless hatred, because the people who actually carry a feminist influence on the political level got there by being smart enough to know the things they're trying to fix aren't just guilted out of people.
As patronizing as it might sound at this point, I like Nepsotic's position. I like that he's very honest about what he thinks. He's got it in him to recognize some important stuff as equal measures of pointless bullshit.
For the same reason that Obama never came out with a speech on his position on Gamergate, no one is going to give any of the self hating dudes who post positively on Missandrist (hehehe) blogs a serious ear, do you see what I mean by that?
The really toxic ones will always pool at the bottom of the 'Net. It's your job as a user to work your way out and see the world as it is: So deplorably pointless that enjoying the pointlessness in your own way gives it meaning. Coming up with a perspective that's based on what other people say about something is a terrible waste.
Think about death. DO IT. Do you want to go in the ground having wasted anything beyond your teens taking a stake in what stupid people post on tumblr? You should make your goal to laugh at anyone who sweeps a group, either gender, race, religious or otherwise all together as some kind of malicious entity. Russophobia is on the rise. People fuckin hate Muslims. Caitlyn Jenner has run over 4500 people and she hasn't even refilled her gas tank.
The culture supporting this perception operates poorly thanks to the terrific ignorance that comes with 7 Billion Individuals.
The point is that this shit:
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If you can name me one single male privilege that I cannot debunk then I will concede this argument. Go for it.
Doesn't fly. Acknowledging that men have advantages isn't going to mitigate or demean those advantages. If your perception is that the concept of Male Privilege in general is something bad, you're ignoring that part of the idea of male privilege is you can just not give a shit what people complain about and get on with your day. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the whole 'being a man' generalization has meant courteously being yourself as completely as possible. It's just part of what being an adult grants you; if a guy is just a lump of turds who lives on a bed of potato chip bags and watches anime all day, he's not much of a man, but exercising a sort of unabashed manliness nonetheless.
Forgiving people for not understanding basic things about who you are, and what it's like to be you is just part of being a 'Man' (or 'Woman'), because adulthood doesn't really mean reading each others faults and being prepared to kick their dick about whatever dumb shit they believe forms their world. Deep down there are plenty of things you'll never understand about 'them', and provided they aren't literally forcing their ideology on you, why bother hating some elaborately specific archetype of a person you're perfectly capable of avoiding entirely anyway?
I'll tell you honestly, there are totally manipulative, skunky babes out there, the same way there are dishonest, superficial dudes. It's not really a persona limited to any gender or personality type, but these people get more and more obvious as time wears on, and they will never rule your life. This rhetoric that anyone is like this in a popular way, that is, if they make up even the barest majority is wrong, and it leads nowhere but to big heaps of loathing that you can't really deposit on anything else than more made up demons .
It sounds stuffy and silly, but you really just need to see the good in things. Every cloud has a silver lining, etc... There's good in sitting alone with your phone or whatever off and nothing to occupy you but experiencing feeling alone. Let the fact that everyone feels this way sometime in their life sink in and suddenly it's hard to really fault anyone for being a jerk at all, and it's kind of nice that most people just try to get on with their day without interfering with yours, and like to be nice about it.
__________________ I see you jockin' me.
Last edited by Mac Sirloin; 09-24-2015 at 08:50 PM..
I actually... agree with you here.
My problem is with the people who do try to interfere, though. The Anita Sarkeesian lot, the Tumblrs who think that people's rights end where their feelings begin. These people are being taken more and more seriously in today's society and that's what worries me. I think the new South Park pretty much sums up my fears.
Am I being paranoid? Yeah, probably. But imagine if nobody ever criticised these ideologies, where would we be? You'll notice that throughout this thread I have always been open to the discussion and willing to change my views if evidence was presented, but no evidence was. I'm that way with religion, too. I don't mind admitting I'm wrong when I've been proven to be so.
I guess, I spend too much time getting angry at them when I should just ignore them. Maybe other people will ignore them, too.
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all Meechmunchie did by trying to troll me was distract from the fact you all have no regard for Hetro or their rights at all, none.
