Broaden OWF to other artistic games

[The Iconoclast]

We???? You only joined a little over a year ago. If I wasn't here stirring shit up...you'd probably be discussing some random bs. Even Max said so and he's a mod. Notice that some of the people who have ACTUALLY been here a long time are in favor of my idea. You and snuzi...you've been here a whopping year. Congrats.

We're gonna do something a *little* more sophisticated than "if you loved ____ you'll love oddworld." That's used on morons to buy more shit they don't really want. We're not dealing with morons.

Fine...the games last 11 hours. Maybe the first time aroud when we stopped to check everything out they lasted 15 or so. W/e...I gotta run so I can't mount a better defense just yet. But I'll be back..and maybe in the mean time someone can take up the fight for me. You've been able to do it for 7 years because there have been enough games to keep you going...I wouldn't say anything if oddworld was a very active franchise. But considering the time span between exodus and munch's oddysee...and then munch's odysee and stranger's wrath...it speaks for itself....gotta blow...ill be back at 6 people...lets have some enthusiasm!

[snuzi]

Snuzi- You miserable bastard. You should be exiled from our midst. All you do is take my posts, mutilate them and snip out bits to use against me. Why? Are you more concerne with fighting ME or upholding oddworld? Anyway, you don't deserve an adress...your idiocy is plainly seen from the clear dispairty between what I'm saying and what your attacks on me say.

The reason why I'm snipping out little bits of your posts, dumbass, is because I don't want each person who reads my post to go through your mess of a paragraph first. Plus, I'm addressing a certain portion of your post, not the entire thing, as part of it has nothing to do with what I have to say.

But that's beside the point. I'm not trying to fight anybody. I'm merely stating my opinion on the matter, one that you obviously dislike hearing. However, unlike you, I'm not directly insulting you as I disagree with you. What's the matter? Do I honestly piss you off to that extent? Pathetic.

You are the densest little insect I've ever had the displeasure of addressing. The nerve of you for marching in here, registering, and then simply shitting on all of us and our love for Oddworld. You say that you love the series, as well as other the series you've restated mechanically, but judging from your posts, it looks more like you're trying to get us to abandon this entire forum, in order to create yours. You selfish bastard. Everyone else may think your idea is a good one, as it might just breathe life back into the forums, but I don't. I think it'll do the exact opposite, and bring unwanted individuals to these forums who will continually bash Oddworld and force all of us to have to stand up for it. Eventually, what I think will happen is that the forum will disband, and there will be nothing left. It will be ruined, thanks to your little idea.

This is an Oddworld forum. It's been made to accommodate Oddworld fans. And that is how I believe it should stay.

[skillya_glowi]

We???? You only joined a little over a year ago. If I wasn't here stirring shit up...you'd probably be discussing some random bs. Even Max said so and he's a mod. Notice that some of the people who have ACTUALLY been here a long time are in favor of my idea. You and snuzi...you've been here a whopping year. Congrats.

We're gonna do something a *little* more sophisticated than "if you loved ____ you'll love oddworld." That's used on morons to buy more shit they don't really want. We're not dealing with morons.

Fine...the games last 11 hours. Maybe the first time aroud when we stopped to check everything out they lasted 15 or so. W/e...I gotta run so I can't mount a better defense just yet. But I'll be back..and maybe in the mean time someone can take up the fight for me. You've been able to do it for 7 years because there have been enough games to keep you going...I wouldn't say anything if oddworld was a very active franchise. But considering the time span between exodus and munch's oddysee...and then munch's odysee and stranger's wrath...it speaks for itself....gotta blow...ill be back at 6 people...lets have some enthusiasm!

Ahaaa, loook who's talking. You joined this month and think you're gonna change this forum forever.

And for the record, I've been playing Oddworld for eight years.

Hearing you talk about Oddworld in this way makes me want to spit in your face. I'm absolutely serious. What are you trying to do? Everyone knows that whatever Max or any other mod or admin says isn't always the absolute truth. Much more is that true in your case.

Just so I'll save you the trouble of reading, I agree completely with Snuzi's last two paragraphs.

[Munch's Master]

Xav's idea is good. Although I do worry that the hopes for expansion could backfire. This place has always been a small but stable community. A rush of new members who aren't really interested in Oddworld could destabilize this place. Although the possibility of fresh faces is still an exciting prospect, and if we're going to wait till the next OWI project to get new members, we could be waiting forever. The question isn't do we need to expand, as truth be told, we don't. The question is do we want to expand, and if so, can we make sure an influx of newbiews won't backfire?

And Icono, you have no right to bash people for being here a year when you've been here 3 days.

[Hobo]

For all former Glass Prisoners, don't bother looking for it. I shut the retard playschool down today.

Man i feel like a spy.

Slillya and everyone else defending Oddworld like a Religion. Shut your faces. You're worse than the resident Christians when they get going (Where is PA anyway? "I BELEEVE IN GOD MANZ")

Oddworld was fun, Oddworld was beautifully artistic. But let's face it, there's not much to discuss anymore.

People be aware first time posters may be long term lurkers. And it seems to me Munch's Master that Icono is only making his judgments based on people's overly harsh reactions in this thread.

THIS POST IN SHORT - You're all a bunch of jackasses

[mitsur]

Hobo, your post is like smacking a hysterical bitch to get her to calm down. I think it'll either work magnificently, or backfire. Either way, you still got it across. We have to stop this before it turns into a flame war.

Anyways, I'll just start typing, before I go off crying into a corner because Icono totally shot down all of our arguments categorically and completely.

Again, like Snuzi and Skillya have been saying, don't bash someone for being here for only a year when you've been here less than a week. You will quickly get bad publicity, and people will not listen to you.

Now, I understand how tempting it is to join a forum and instantly assume you know what could make this place better. I've done it myself multiple times on different forums, and each resulted in either a ban and/or a falling out with many of my friends on said foums.

Just build up your credibility, and then post something like this. Again, however, I think you were pretty ballsy to open this can of worms, whether you didn't or did know this would happen.

Second, if you want to make your point get across, don't type it like you're doing this in your school's computer lab between classes. It'll make it easier to read, and people will take it more seriously.

Third, don't insult members who can post a coherent thought and have been here longer than you. They know what is going on here. You don't.

Examples:

Snuzi- You miserable bastard. You should be exiled from our midst. All you do is take my posts, mutilate them and snip out bits to use against me. Why? Are you more concerne with fighting ME or upholding oddworld? Anyway, you don't deserve an adress...your idiocy is plainly seen from the clear dispairty between what I'm saying and what your attacks on me say.

Munch's Master- what you propose is doing abslutely nothing. We already have a forum for non odd games. Clearly it doesn't do shit. My proposal on the other hand makes a bit more sense.

used- the truth is...I'm your...mother...I've spoken enough to you damnit

Probably the most insulting of all:

I think that's it...if i missed anyone, I'm sorry...but then again you probably weren't worth adressing anyway...

Another thing that bothers me about you is how you basically hate anyone who dosen't see it the way you do, but think anyone who does is great.

So, you're using the 'anyone who doesn't see it with me is against me' way of thought.

Icono, think about it. The world would be really f***ing boring is people all agreed with each other. You are never, in your entire life, meet someone who thinks like you do in every single way.

And if you want to start your own forum on artistic game, be my guest and go do it. Just don't expect to instantly get a flood of members. It dsen't work that way, unless you make commercial, ads, or maybe even tattoing someone's forhead with your website adress.

You'll have to do it with hard work, not just come on here, and expect to convince everyone to make it the way you want, then get modship for making it. God forbid if it ever happens that easily.

What the hell do I know, anyway? I'm just going to go back to playing KH2 and waiting for a reply.

[/another rant]

[The Iconoclast]

Firstly: Hobo, rock on. You're not afraid to spit the truth. Secondly: Where do you little cunts come off? If you ACTUALLY believe that I swooped in here to try to disband this little community, you give yourself too much credit. Snuzi...you try too hard and it always makes YOU look stupid. Your posts can be torn apart by a child but I'm just too tired. Mitsur...why do you keep saying this total bs? I hate anyone who disagrees with me? That's a personal insult to me because I'm the one going around preaching understanding and shit. You'd think I'd at least try to monitor the concistency between my words and my actions considering how long this thread has been going on. The point is, the people who are so violently disagreeing with me like snuzi and skillya...their arguements are weak and clearly blinded by their extremist love of oddworld. That's what happens when you dig too far...you can't see anything else but your own little hole. If you guys want to stay...I'm not forcing you to move. But if the majority here who seems to have a little more sense wants to take some sort of action...we will.

So there mitsur...I don't hate those that disagree. I hate them if their arguement doesn't bring anything to the table. All they're saying is, this is Oddworld and you can't destroy it! Nice arguement guys. You must've been putting it together all week. Why do you constantly refer to potential new comers as unwanted? You were all new comers at some point...get over yourselves. I just joined...am I so undesirable? (snuzi and skillya are forbidden from answering that question! lol)

And I don't see any cause to get violent anyway. You guys started being agressive form the get-go. I made a proposal. I didn't say: Everyone in favor of seceeding to the left, snuzi and skillya to the-f*ck yourselves area. I put something forth...that's all. I didn't come to disband anything. Your love for oddworld is tainted. You're the kind I previously described. You love oddworld for oddworld's sake, not for what it stands for or what it means to us. That's why you keep making the same defense over and over. Now there's nothing wrong with that...but that's not the issue at hand.

Also, Alcar. I meant to make a note when I said "do or die" for you not to take it so seriously. I wasn't forcing an ultimatum on you or anyone here. I just wanted people to keep in mind that at the rate things are going...it's just going to be us...and...us.

[snuzi]

Your posts can be torn apart just as easily, you tool. All you're doing is stating and restating the same goddamn opinions, while taking a minute or two to personally insult a couple of members.

As I've stated before, you're a goddamn hypocrite. You're giving skillya and me a hard time about our love for Oddworld, while you are making a big deal about the love for your games. You're not even worth my time. Honestly, just drop it, you child. Accept that fact that not every person is going to agree with your little "plan", and move the hell on.

[The Iconoclast]

The irony is delicious.

Everyone else who's cared to read MY posts and HIS posts can join me in my mocking laugh. Aha. Ahaha. MWahhahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come now! Everybody! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Slaveless]

What's so funny? Sure, I wouldn't mind changing the forum board to get Oddworld a little more about other games. I probably would get interested in a few. But we should consider our reasons a little more. Changing the board to get new members would be a little awkard. You could do that at any ol' forum board. If there is a Gaming discussion board there, you could mention it, and when CS releases, people will be interested since they heard it somewhere else. Changing the board is just not worth that if that is our only reason.

Is there any other reason we should change the board? Sure, we can make another board specifically for creative gaming, but changing the only place that can discuss Oddworld just in general, and that the members are fine with, then we have nothing to change.

[Arxryl]

Alright, alright. Let's stop calling each other names. Now, I'm not any of your mothers, trust me, but yelling at eachother and calling eachother names is not something that'll progress a discussion. Rather it would turn it into an arguement, or a flame-fest.

Iconoclast, I don't know if you understand this or not, but when you say that they love Oddworld because it is just Oddworld, you are partially correct.

We enjoy the essence that is Oddworld. We don't merely like Abe because he is blue and talks funny, heavens no. We respect what he stands for, as do you, I'm sure.

If anyone would know what Oddworld stands for, it is Skillya. I've heard what she has had to say on this subject in earlier times, and she is very dedicated to Oddworld.

Now this is where we are all getting mixed up. The side that wants Oddworld Forums to stay the way it is thinks this way because they wish for this site to remain dedicated to Oddworld, as I'm sure you have already assumed. However we wish it to stay this way because we know what

Oddworld stands for, and (hopefully,) we know why this site was built.
Well, even for me this part is getting kind of tricky to explain... so bare with me.
Oddworld is unique, no one here can deny that whilst in their right minds. This forum is unique, from its members to the very core. By adding other games to this forum, we'd take away form the uniqueness.

Don't get me wrong, other games are unique too, but that's exactly it. It wouldn't remain the Oddworld Forums, it would be "the collaborative forum of games that are unique."
Yeah we could probably pull that forum off pretty well, with a whole new casket of members waiting to join. It could very well be the most successful forum on the planet. Who knows?
But no matter how successful it would be, for some strange and hard-to-explain reason, it wouldn't have the same feeling. IT wouldn't have that glow, that attracted many of us here in the first place.

Many people think that this forum is boring, and they may be right! It could be downright boring right now, with nothing of super-importance to discuss. Granted there are some good art pages, and some good fan-fics.

But think of OWF as a balloon for a minute, and please don't pop it, I don't want to clean up the mess. *eyes everyone* Okay, now imagine OWI as blowing air made of ideas, games, and movies into it. Our little balloon gets larger and larger, more active and more active. So they stopped blowing for a moment in time. We still have air in the balloon. We still have purpose to not totally change what we are now. All we have to do is be patient, and wait for CS and all that other stuff to come out.
even if (note I said If) Cs turns out to be bad with not too much attention drawn to it, we will still have something to keep this place going.

But I doubt CS will be bad at all. Think about the poeple that are making it. The very same people that have brought us AO, AE, MO, and SW. We are looking at something at least mildly entertaining to say the least of the least.


As another point that many people have stated, another sister forum would be great. We could draw people there if they wanted to gpo, and eventually they could find themselves in the OWF. Bonus all around there!

Mostly, all I'm trying to say is:
1) Let's not turn this discussion into a flame-fight.
2) We are mis-understanding eachother
3) OWF isn't dead, nor dying. It's just relatively unactive for a period of time.
4) Building a second forum would be nice. We don't necessarily need to change this one.
5) I can type a lot if I really want to...

Now excuse me while I go and fix my fingers...

[Alcar]

IF this was done,... could it:
1) Be hosted on Odd.net??
2) Use Alcar's vBulletin's licence?

I wouldn't mind it being hosted on OddNet's server. However, a vBulletin license is only valid for one installation, and that currently, is the Oddworld Forums (which won't be changing). So another would have to be purchased.

Don't mold my double post into one...I use seperate posts to express seperate thoughts and messages. Please.

Alcar- 160 bucks doesn't sound so bad. I could do it. Thats about 13 hours at work...no biggy. Of course I don't think I should pay the full price...EH PEOPLE? Anyway. We could jsut keep OWF as a souvenir...because that's all it really is. Also...what kind of ressurgence are you expecting from Citizen Siege? If you think the same 30 memebers becoming more active qualifies as a ressurgence...well...that's you. Some idiots will probably make some kind of new Citizen Siege forum and go there...and they'll discuss Lorne's new stuff. They won't know about oddworld. But they will know Citizen. I could be wrong though. I haven't been here long enough to totally confirm that. So you tell me how shit really is.

Double posting is considered spam here, so I'm afraid I do need to merge all of your double posts. We can't give you an exception while everyone else manages to follow the rules.

To be honest, I don't know why other people on the Internet would choose to visit this new cult gaming forum over previously established forums for those games. I took a look around the Internet, and there is already http://www.lucasforums.com which handles Grim Fandango and Psychonauts (and I think a few others) and there is already an active Neoseeker forum for Psychonauts as well: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/inde...e_forum&f=3988. They are well established from what I can see (especially the LucasForums).

As for Citizen Siege, we have had plans in place to accommodate for it for a while now - the forums have already been geared up, and there are things going on behind the scenes which will make our switch to Citizen Siege a smooth one. I doubt Oddworld discussion will ever completely cease, and I believe that with Citizen Siege being developed it will attract members who remember, and liked Oddworld.

Alcar...

[The Iconoclast]

Well...ok. I'm done. You guys know what you want...and it's just oddworld. Like I said, that's fine. I just thought I'd propose a solution to both our desires. Your's to get life in this hollow shell...and mine to unite some great games and some great people who like those great games...spread some art...some love...some knowledge...and get some too. Just...a place for us. But I guess us for me is something different than us for you guys. Seems you're all happy with the us that comprises Oddworld. Enjoy. I'll go find the us for me. Sorry to have disturbed you all. Skillya and snuzi can sit down...and work on your snappy comebacks. jk

[mitsur]

Someone's bitter...

Icono, don't be like that. It makes people remember you as an arrogant, ignorant, stubborn jackass. Go out with some decency and finish with a post that says you've either decided to stand your ground, or agree with the above thoughts. Don't insult people like you have been the entire topic.

Just because one of your ideas didn't work dosen't mean you have to leave.

Unless, of course, you're serious. Then you should get out. I don't like being around people who cry because they didn't get their way.

EDIT:

I know I'm being really harsh today, and I really don't have any excuse except that I'm burnt out on Warcraft 3 and KH2. I'm bored, and being a total jerkoff by taking it out on other people. Sorry.

[snuzi]

Well, at least you've finally realized that you can't forcefully change other people thoughts and opinions. That's start, I guess.

[Wil]

Max- You didn't really have any questions, but you did help me out in terms of establishing my platform. Woot. Now Imagine how much more moderating fun you could have with like 5 other game forums.

Ha, yeah. I get real kicks from it.

Personally, I have not made up my mind. I don’t want the Oddworld Forums themselves to change, and given the responses from staff and users, particularly the admin, that’s not going to happen. But a kind of sister forum… It’s something to think about. My first concern, before any kind of technical concerns, is what makes the people of OWF quite so qualified to spearhead such a project.

Obviously Oddworld is worthy for inclusion in this project, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion on OWF, but for us to assume some kind of role in the fan communities of other games seems slightly big‐headed. Perhaps we might open this discussion to leaders of existing Schaffer/Fallout appreciation communities, and see if we can’t cooperate on the project.

But it also makes me wonder exactly what OAK (a name I’m not fond of, but I’ll use as a project name) would discuss. A forum dedicated to a single game/series works well because all levels of discussion can fit in somewhere. On OWF, we have (sort of) separate boards for discussing the fictional setting, the gameplay, and Oddworld‐inspired creativity. Would OAK accommodate gameplay help for these games? How about discussing the finer points of the creature biology? Or if it’s just the artistic content of the games we’d be discussing, wouldn’t there then be observations made on OAK and not on existing single‐game communities?

Before worrying about hosting issues and names, I think we need to clear up the internal purpose of OAK and its role in wider/existing communities.

p.s. Well The Iconoclast seems to have stepped down from discussing the idea with us. There goes three quarters of an hour of thought from me.

[Oddsville]

I don't think you should be so upset Icono, these forums were made by people who love Oddworld and are frequented by people who love Oddworld. Just because you think that this is obsolete dosen't mean that we'll all make a complete 360 and go for a whole new idea. This forum is FOR Oddworld and it will always remain this way. Being bitter is an awefull thing to show, we've all considered your idea and we've even began to formulate it.

I agree with the method Xav had come up with and think that it could bring new life to this forum. Also, to predict and say that Citizen Siege will be a failure already when not even so much as a proper description of it has been released is toatlly ignorant at best. If CS is infact a hit then it will open boundless amounts of new doors for OWI and with that give the forums tons of new content.

[SeaRex]

SeaRex-Leave the titles to me. Cult Gaming? C'mon. That's so cliche and unoriginal. At least put a little thought into it.

Oh. OK. Fuck you then. Never mind the fact that I was just throwing an idea out there. You can stick up for yourself and your retarded-ass name from now on. Good luck. As far as this thread goes, I'm out.

God I love not being an admin.

[snuzi]

Wow, I didnt even notice that part. Way to thin out the numbers of your supporters, Icono.

[The Iconoclast]

SeaRex...buddy...I was joking. But really...what WERE you thinking? Lol.

Mitsur...I'm not bitter or upset. I just see that there's no sense in continuing the endeavor so I fold.

Oddsville...and everyone else who doesn't understand when I say the word hypothetical...I did not state it as my complete and personal opinion that Citizen Siege will be crap. I said my general distrust and observation of human nature has lead me to this predispositon. I still have hope. But since you're all resigned to believe that I'm anti Lorne and you refuse to listen...how's this...I'm going to laugh when Lorne sells out and Citizen Siege becomes some lame ass action flick or disney pixar type deal. He is not a ****ing saint...he's a human being. Even the best of us remain forever subject to the worst. We're human...we're free....free to be great or corrupt...not that greatness is really the opposite of corruption but I just didn't want to say good.

Max...your post made me come back. Like I said buddy, we could work on the name. Here's a little rundown of what could be in our site. I'll start from the skeleton and work my way into the crevices of each bone.

The main site: the central hub. On top is our name/logo and beneath it our poetic mission statement. By the way...just to be clear our mission is the unity of people under the banner of enlightenment, beauty, and art through the video game medium. Cheesy yes...but it's got a great prospect.
Below the title/statement we have the oak tree...or w/e structure you want connecting the games we are responsbile for. each branch could be a different game. I'm surprised you dont like oak...cmon...its the perfect symbol. Just feel the meaning. I think an oak tree is ****ing lame in all honesty...but when I think about what it stands for and how closely related it is to what WE stand for...i see it in a different light. Anyway...so we have our oak tree with the game branches. You click on a branch and it has the following smaller branches (this list is subject to change based on availability of mods, popular demand, council support, etc...i want this shit done nice and democratically...unless you elect me as the benevolent leader and we have limited socialism in which case you might be sacrificing a tiny level of freedom for things running much smoother under my dedicated management). Right...so the branches when you click on a game branch: General (duh), Experiences (your in game adventures...we want to keep our sections broad so as to put less stress on management and moderation...if anyone has better ideas by all means put them forth NOW), related real world topic (like psychonauts would have a psychology/sociology section...oddworld could have an environment/ human rights section)...and well...maybe a game guide section?...but cmon...thats ****ing useless...you can google a walkthrough in two seconds...its so unecessary...we can worry about minor details once we're set up...also in the cnetral hub we can have one massive off topic thingy...in case any of the ladies are wooed by my totally awesome philosophical, radical self

Simple version:
In OAK tree form
(branches/canopy: games we represent
at the heart of the tree we have our massive off topic section for people to just talk...maybe they don't want to talk about god damn games all the time...maybe they jsut appreciate being around people who understand them for a change and would jsut like to talk

at the root...our title/mission statement because it is where WE come from

wow that was shitty and disorganized...lemme start over lol

The main page will be an interactive tree...picture this white page with this well designed tree on it...and thats our site.

On the branches will be little bubbles with the games on em. Abe's face in a bubble for oddworld, jade's face for beyond good and evil...manny's face for grim fandango, etc, You could click on one of these bubles and it would take you to this twiggy kind of background thing and it would have the actual forum of the game. The cateogries for now are the basics...general...and the respective real world issue

back on the main page, we come to the middle of the tree...the trunk...our off topic forum for people to just revel in the company of their own

below that the roots...digging into our title/mission statement...you could click on that and it'd be like some kind of...bio sheet on the founders or something...and just like...contact us type shit...

hmm? not a bad first draft type lay out thingy? lol...

[mitsur]

I cannot in good consience read what this lunatic writes.

He comes in, suggests an idea, hopes it gets accepted instantly, then wants to be the leader of it, despite the fact he can't think anything through, or type in a non-AOL fashion. Then he throws away what little (but addmitably influential) support he got by making rude and insulting 'jokes' about them.

I'm out, and I hope only to return to this thread to watch it either get locked or sent straight to Necrum.

Icono, I started out respecting you for proposing this. A lot of people wouldn't even dare to think of doing this. Now, I just can't think of any words that are precise enough to describe what I think of you.

Another thing, you don't have to post the whole outline here. That would be better as a PM to either Alcar, or Max.

What a waste of a decent idea...

[The Iconoclast]

I never had respect for you to being with...or for anyone who likes to put words in my mouth and ideas in my head that hardly have any place there. How is it that you cotinue to dictate what it is I'm supposed to be thinking or feeling. If that's the impression YOU got...fine. SeaRex probably misunderstood and should know I didn't mean to offend him.

I hope your realize it's these very posts that have detracted from the main objective the whole time. You, snuzi, and whoever putting goddamn words into my mouth. Next time it'll be me shoving all 10 feet of my oddly shaped c*ck down your soon to be broken trachea! Damn I'm good! I gotta copy right these snappy comebacks. Its funny that I realize that resorting to profnaity and childish bs really hurts my cause...and yet I can't resist the satisfaction of sticking it to pretentious forum dwellers. But I suppose grovelling to save the dying image I've fought to errect would be worse. On the other hand this IS one of those battles where the greatest victory is the battle NOT fought. Sigh...this always happens to me. Well...it doesn't matter. I came back for you Max...and I suppose I will send you a pm since it was JUST you I came back for...and of course all my loyal supporters: Arxryl...used...SeaRex..i know you love me buddy...hobo...and whoever else

[mitsur]

And see how quickly the illusion falls away when he is threatened....

[snuzi]

Ugh, you're making me sicker by the minute, Icono. You just keep coming back to insult whomever's against you. It's honestly pathetic. If I were you, I would have just dropped it the minute I saw that everyone thought I was being a dick, but no, you've continued to act like one. I honestly think you want people to hate you on here and go against your so-called "cause". Why? I haven't the slightest clue. However, if you were to be polite about the matter from the very beginning, I can assure you that you'd have many more supporters than you do now. The problem is, we've seen the kind of person you really are, and quite a few of us don't like it. So, basically, you've just screwed yourself over, buddy.

And no one's been putting words in your mouth. You're the one who first typed those words. We were merely restating them.

[The Iconoclast]

What illusion would that be? It's funny you consider yourself a threat.

Tell me something...when you are alone in an arguement against an entire forum community, don't you think you'd try to level the playing field (not that I in any way manipulated anyone...I don't need to level the playing field against 3 yapping chihuahuas). My point is...instead of judging from on high...why not come down to where I am? If I recall correctly it was I who was provoked. I didn't come here smashing doors down and putting guns to people's heads if they didn't make me a forum. I made a little speech. That's all. You then turned to me as if I had spoken something so horrible and sacriligeous that I had to be rubbed out and sent away. But then again...why bother sending me away if I was already rubbed out? No use sending a corpse away... ha! Self involved humour...the greatest gift and curse of the pseudo intelectual.

If anyone wants to show their loyalty and stand by my side...now would be a really good time...

Max? Used? Hobo? Care to prove that I'm not such a dick after all?

It's hard to fight off a bunch of people alone.

Snuzi...can't you go be sick somewhere else? I just mopped.

[snuzi]

The illusion of giving it a rest, as you stated a couple of posts above.

Excuse me, but if I recall correctly, your first post consisted of bitching about Lorne not being as loyal to his fans and games as he should have been. Seeing as how this is an Oddworld forum, and Lorne did create Oddworld, it seems to me that you were kinda instigating something.

[Bullet Magnet]

With a few exceptions, notably the mods, past and present, you guys are behaving pretty atrociously. Suggestions for the forums should be discussed maturely, since they could affect all of us. Overreacting, insulting and misquoting each other is not going to get us anywhere.

Iconoclast: Whenever a new guy joins, short of lurking around with a few innocuous posts here and there, they will undergo a trial by fire. You didn't do yourself any favours by posting your debut thread entitled "Lorne you money grubbing freak!", which turned otherwise reasonable and polite members against you. Attempting to make and direct sweeping changes as your first contribution, especially after pissing off so many people, was never going to go down too well. It's a controversial idea, to be sure, but you aren't exactly selling it.

And everyone else: cool it! Jeeze.

[mitsur]

Icono, if you look back to the first few pages, you'll see that I was in no way insulting or degrading to you. All I did was state my thoughts on the subject, and in the end I was torn between the two views.

And then, I saw you begin to insult anyone not with you, and naturally I went to their defence. I don't apologize for what I said, because it seemed that way at the time to me.

So, basically, you're acusing me of being hostile from the get-go, when if you had just turned back to page 1 (or 2, I can't remember while I type this), you would see that I was actually supporting you from the start.

Don't start a smear campaign.

EDIT:

Goddamn posting time...

Okay, lemme implement Bullet's post.

I don't really think I'm overreacting, except for calling him a lunatic. I see now that I was totally retarded of me to say that, and I apologize, Icono. It was uncalled for.

To repeat what he said also, it wasn't exactly brilliant of you to make that debut topic about Lorne selling out for $$$.

As usual, Bullet is like a cooling breeze in an otherwise Dante's Inferno. Thanks.

[The Iconoclast]

Do I have to explain it again? Let me use examples. I'd use colored blocks but I don't have any on hand.

I didn't turn hostile to disagreement. Sadly you can't appreciate the fact that the arguements AGAINST my proposal weren't arguements at all. They just said no...

Then they said it would compromise oddworld. I adressed the issue. Then they just kept repeating the same complaint and clearly not reading my adress to the very same issue.

So when I have to deal with either bs arguements or non reading of my answers...I tend to get a little tiffy. You guys aren't the best material to work with. Then again, snuzi's brain is very reminiscent of silly putty. jk

Did you notice me saying anything bad to anyone else when they disagreed? Alcar was among the first to disagree but he did it in a constructive and civil manner. I answered him likewise in turn. But when i get rabid bitches on my ass...well...ya gotta beat them off with a stick. I could just picture one of you foaming at the mouth as I write this.

And since when are we all so sensitive? Mommy mommy, the mean internet man said some mean stuff. Honestly...I pray for the day I meet someone who has the wits to construct a well thought out snappy insult. When I'm with my grumpy friend who has nothing BUT insults to hurl at people...I feel joy when he says something clever. In fact, every time he has a clever insult, I give him a pound to show my support for his keen mind. But hey...maybe I'm just ODDDDDD like that...

Everybody...come to order. I...am going to sleep. Save your insults...and snuzi your nausea...for tomorow. I'll be home by 7...so I hope to see some one on my side of the table. Or at least some better arguements and posts from the other. Oh woops...don't go crying into your pillow now. I didn't MEAN it.

WHAT?????????????/ Mistur...I'm going to kill you!!! This is the second time you've done this. I'm guessing there's gonna be another cycle of you bashing me to hell and then saying you're retarded a final time where you learn your mistake permanenetly and bash me no longer. After all...3rd time's the charm. And bullet...I already pointed out the same thing about myself like 3 posts ago...or something like that. Or did I imagine it? Oh...I think I might've written that in my pm to max. Well...w/e...I just don't like repetition.

This edit was done with solemn regard for Alcar's wise and just law...

[snuzi]

Hey...buddy...maybe instead of wasting space in MY thread, you can be more constructive. For example, you could opt to say you disagree and give a full explanation of why. Or...better yet, you could stitch your virtual mouth shut and maybe your eyes while you're at it. Then I'll be all like: Hi [Cullen Heath]. and then you say: hello... then I say: Follow Me after which you either A) fall of a cliff or B) walk into a meat grinder/mine/muzzle of a slig's assault rifle...is there anything better than oddworld themed humour? But all jokes aside...it's better if you give me a constructive response instead of TRULY wasting space.

If that isn't hostility, then you must be using a different dictionary. He might not have said anything constructive, but there wasn't any need to bite his damn head off for it. This only proves that you were prepared to be a total dick from the start, Icono.

And what's more, I don't understand why you're constantly singling me out and questioning my intelligence on this matter. I may not be bringing anything relevent to the table in your opinion, but that's only because I don't agree with your views. I bet that if I were all for what you were saying in the first place, then you would treat me remarkably differently as a result.

And the only reason why I'm not coming up with "snappy insults" is because I don't want to be warned because of this stupid arguements. Believe me though, if I could fully express an insult that came to mind at the moment, you'd get a restraining order put in place against me.