Abe HD Ideas

[Phylum]

It needs some gore, but not over the top blood everywhere disgusting stuff that abe619 would like.

Tasteful gore.

[Manco]

I don't want to see Oddworld taking the Gears of War approach to maturity. Compare how Limbo approaches the subject.

[Paul_hibs3]

One thing. More cutscenes of Abe etc, very rare cutscenes in both abe games but they were world class, just would prefer a LOT more cutscenes in the games to understand more of the characters, and the storyline.

[STM]

But you don't need loads of cutscenes, if you have too many they are devalued and game play breaks up.

[Phylum]

Like in Metal Gear Solid.

[Bullet Magnet]

First person Well transits, anyone? Monsaic Lines to Scrabania at the low low price of your lunch.

[STM]

That's an idea but I can imagine it would be very intensive on the graphical capabilities and might be better as a cut scene if it were to be included, alternatively...it would ruin the mystery of how they work wouldn't it?

[Jordan]

I preferred the use of FMVs, and I hope it stays that way. The graphics for the FMVs were that good anyway, they hardly need a HD update.

[STM]

^ this.

[Nate]

I really want you to keep the scene transitions, both with respect to transitioning from FMVs to gameplay and (far more importantly), moving around from one gameplay area to another. One of the things that really made the world feel real to me was walking in one door and seeing the camera move across/around the landscape to the next one. This is especially true of the Monsaic Lines, but Paramonia did it well too.

A related thing is the way that some screens showed paths in the background that you walk on later in the level. That was cool.

In just about every FMV, sligs are having a discussion in some terrible, unintelligible, guttural language. I think recording 5-10 of these "nonsense" conversations, acted with a twinge of mischief and underhandedness, would not disrupt the atmosphere too much.

Yeah, well... unintelligible, guttural language would not be inconsistent with what I said. I just don't want to hear Sligs gossiping about the weather.

[JennyGenesis]

Yeah, well... unintelligible, guttural language would not be inconsistent with what I said. I just don't want to hear Sligs gossiping about the weather.

I have the opposite opinion, I wouldnt mind hearing sligs talking about the weather

[Paul_hibs3]

I preferred the use of FMVs, and I hope it stays that way. The graphics for the FMVs were that good anyway, they hardly need a HD update.

I agree with what you've said. I would just like to see more dialogue and more story because in the abe games the FMV's in total all together must be below 5 minutes worth. That was acceptable in the 90s for most games, but I think there is a massive importance in the story and character development in games now a days to the player. Its almost like a film or a book etc, you want to understand more of the characters and relate to them or want them to succeed or fail and the times I saw abe etc in the FMVs were great I just felt that there wasn't enough. I know theres that old saying fans will call for more cake but sometimes you need that because if you give them too much they get sick of it, however somtimes you can starve the fans and its not enough, and I feel there needs to be more FMVs.

[Nate]

I have the opposite opinion, I wouldnt mind hearing sligs talking about the weather

Repeated every single time you see them on screen?!

I don't think I've ever seen NPC dialogue done well. Ever. In any game. In any genre. Not once.

[STM]

Keep it to BS, SMO'BS and the occasional hi in my opinion.

[Michael]

This feels like a good place to repeat my suggestion from another thread on how sligs could behave with smooth scrolling

If the camera is panning, with Abe being (presumably) fixed in the centre of the screen, then think about where that slig would have to be- right at the edge of the viewable area, to the point where it is close to going off screen.

With the flick screen system, if we walked into a new screen to see a slig shouting 'FREEZE!', we had to turn and run straight away or be shot. Also think how, if you stopped running whilst being chased, the slig had to stop to shoot- they couldn't run and gun. In fact, if you were quick, you could stop briefly then carry on running, and the slig would do the same

Point is, the slig needs to stop to shoot you. He will only stop if you do, in which case you'd be shot anyway just like in the classic games. But if he tries to shoot while you are running, he will disappear off screen- and just like AO/AE, you can't be shot from off screen! This way, the slig can try to catch up (for example if you stop and eventually he enters the screen), or it might go back to sleep, revert back to it's original location, etc. Just a thought- it doesn't seem too different to the original's mechanics actually! The only ways a slig would appear in the middle of the screen would be if you dropped next to one from a ledge, or woke one up whilst sneaking- either way, you'd be shot just like in the original game.

Secondly, I feel an important aspect of the gameplay in AO and AE was that it was frantic and tense. All in all, I think it comes down to risk- in Munch, there was a health bar, meaning Abe could take multiple hits from enemies. With this, the risk of approaching an enemy is reduced and the player is not afraid of the enemy since they know the odds of survival are good.

The key to immersing a player in a game is to effectively place the emotion of the protagonist on the player. I think the back of the AO box said it best with 'In a world where everything wants to eat you, you're the skinny guy with no weapons'- I want to feel scared playing as Abe, to feel desperately outmatched just as somebody would in that situation. One hit kills are a must! Running away from a slig/scrab needs to feel like a life and death situation.

On an extra note, I don't know if anyone has suggested this before, but it would be great if Abe's grenades had some physical effect on the machinery when they explode- the level would function in the same way afterwards, but maybe there would be some damage to the metal, a charred patch and sparks from grinders, etc?

Apologies for the long post!

[DarkHoodness]

@Michael - Agreed with this on the whole, one-hit kills is a must indeed.

Basically the gist of what I wrote was that, first and foremost as a designer my job is going to be to make the old game fit the new engine with as few changes as possible to the core game and storyline. However, enhanced visuals are a definite, at least from my point of view, so epic backgrounds, maybe even realtime cutscenes to replace the old ones, and general fleshing out of the world will be on my agenda at least.

Added canon isn't something that I think we should do with the first release; it's not our place to muck around with people's memories of this excellent franchise. After that however there's no limit to what we can do, providing we can keep it within the accepted history and rules of the Oddworld universe.

Agreed with this, this is the right attitude to have. Bear in mind that you won't be able to satisfy everyone, but don't let that put you off - There are many people who don't think many things should be changed at all, but so long as you intend to keep the core of the games, everything else should be subject to improvement. After all, what people forget is that the old games aren't going anywhere - If they want the old experience, they should play the old games.

As a community we should continue to identify what is "Core" about the Abe games like we have been doing, but I really hope we won't start being too afraid of change - Abe HD should be a refreshment of the old games and it would be a shame to see the opportunity of improving things going to waste if too many things are imported as-is from the old games.

The FMVs for example. If the new graphics and engine are good enough, I don't see why real-time cutscenes couldn't replace the old ones. The old ones are nice... For the old games. If remastered and used in Abe HD, they'd look a bit out of place unless Abe HDs graphics and style were EXACTLY the same, which they probably won't be. So yeah, go for it.

[Sekto Springs]

I'm actually not a huge fan of real-time cutscenes, even in high quality next-gen games. Maybe that's just me. Of course, I'm speaking of games that only have real-time cutscenes. Stranger's Wrath had a good balance by making the less significant/involved plot points in real-time, and the pivotal points as cinematics. The cinematics act as a thesis for the next chapter of the story, and the real-time sequences are sub-points.

Considering that AO/AE are not highly interactive games with multiple "lesser" missions and the whole thing plays like a movie, I can't imagine where real-time sequences (other than scene transitions and the like) would be necessary.
If you insist on redoing the old cinematics, do it with top notch computer graphics like in the originals or polish up the original sequences. The stunning matte paintings, the music, the cinematography... all of those things cannot be touched! If you're going to reconstruct those iconic sequences, it has to be done shot-for-shot, word-for-word, color-for-color. I don't mean to be a stickler, but I think you'll find most of the good folks here will agree with me in saying that the cinematic sequences cannot and should not be subject to too much change. I wan't these HD games to be a polish of the classics, but losing that sublime atmosphere in translation would be a damned shame.

[Dynamithix]

I can't be bothered to look if this was suggested already 'cause I'm sleepy, but anyways:

It would be cool if there was a bit more variety to the gamespeak. What I mean by that is that there could be like three or four different ways of them saying the stuff, like if a Slig were to say 'hi', it wouldn't just say 'hi' in the same way all the time, but it could say something similar like 'whazzup' or 'hi' in a slightly different voice. It's a minor idea that I've had in mind and I would appreciate if you'd put that in the game.

[AvengingGibbons]

I can't be bothered to look if this was suggested already 'cause I'm sleepy, but anyways:

It would be cool if there was a bit more variety to the gamespeak. What I mean by that is that there could be like three or four different ways of them saying the stuff, like if a Slig were to say 'hi', it wouldn't just say 'hi' in the same way all the time, but it could say something similar like 'whazzup' or 'hi' in a slightly different voice. It's a minor idea that I've had in mind and I would appreciate if you'd put that in the game.

+1 Seconded. The sligs' tones of voice should definately vary reflecting a range of different personalities. Nothing too comical, save that for Exodus HD. ...Or maybe they should all sound pretty much the same in Oddysee, and say the same as what they do in the original, just with a slight variation in tone.

[Sekto Springs]

Yeah that was already brought up numerous times, but I guess that just means it's something the fans have come to a definite consensus on.

[Havoc]

If you insist on redoing the old cinematics, do it with top notch computer graphics like in the originals or polish up the original sequences. The stunning matte paintings, the music, the cinematography... all of those things cannot be touched! If you're going to reconstruct those iconic sequences, it has to be done shot-for-shot, word-for-word, color-for-color. I don't mean to be a stickler, but I think you'll find most of the good folks here will agree with me in saying that the cinematic sequences cannot and should not be subject to too much change. I wan't these HD games to be a polish of the classics, but losing that sublime atmosphere in translation would be a damned shame.

JAW is building the games but as far as I know, Lorne is still overlooking and actively doing the art direction. It's his vision they are rebuilding, I doubt he would let it be done in a way that doesn't completely satisfy him. MO is a good example of this. The gameplay and ingame art sucked big time, but the FMV's had the same high quality and attention to detail we're used to from the first two games. This is because Lorne is first and foremost a story teller. The story is told primarily trough the FMV's so it makes sense Lorne puts the most effort into making those look as good as possible.

TL;DR: As long as Lorne is overlooking any new FMV's we have nothing to worry about.

[Sekto Springs]

I don't really take anything for granted though. Capable hands or not, they explicitly asked for my opinion and I gave it.

[Phylum]

When you take the wells to Scrabania and Paramonia, maybe there could be a transition into some speedy landscape going by before the screen ripples/fades/whatevers into the vision cutscenes. The speedy landscape could then resume at a latter point briefly before coming to a halt ready for Abe to exit the well into the scene.

I don't know if that makes sense. I can see it in my head.

[Nath]

Keep it to BS, SMO'BS and the occasional hi in my opinion.

+1. I liked how vocally quiet Abe's Oddysee was. Just the machine noises in the background and subtle environment music and abe's footsteps was all I think it needed.

[gishygleb]

The best thing in Abe was Shrykkul...

[Goresplatter]

I think the Sligs having mindless conversation would be good. They can have conversation without humanising them, as long as they appear either very stupid or rotten to the core. Make it reflect their sadistic nature, and have them tell crappy jokes and stuff. With the right dialogue they'll seem even more inhuman than they did before. The Super-Mutants in Fallout 3 had some mindless chatter which made them a little more believable, without generating much sympathy for them, so it can work.

Also, I sort of agree with Sekto - somewhat scripted animal deaths could add to their brutality. Maybe not to that extent, but certainly having several different ways of being mauled by a slog after being taken down could be quite entertaining. Think when you're killed by Necromorphs in Dead Space.

[Havoc]

I dunno if I'd like sligs talking. Maybe beating up a mud together and laughing, but no conversations. Like has been said, it will get repetative really fast. Once you hear the exact same line more than once the depth is gone and you realize you're playing a game. That sucks IMO. Do it right (one unique line per slig per event or something) or don't do it at all.

[Phylum]

Maybe just an occasional "aye" or BS on passing.

[Goresplatter]

I dunno if I'd like sligs talking. Maybe beating up a mud together and laughing, but no conversations. Like has been said, it will get repetative really fast. Once you hear the exact same line more than once the depth is gone and you realize you're playing a game. That sucks IMO. Do it right (one unique line per slig per event or something) or don't do it at all.

You do have a point. There'd have to be either a lot of lines or good situational dialogue. Or else...

"What's going on with you?"
"I ran into a couple of Fleeches not long ago. Annoying creatures..."
"Well, at least they're slow - and not too bright! Their tongues are sticky, though..."
"Goodbye."
"Goodbye."

You'll know the reference if you've played the game

[Sekto Springs]

MOD EDIT: This and the next few posts (up until my one) were mistakenly posted in the Dev Question thread.

One subtle touch I thought would be good for the Free Fire Zone would be to have the loin cloths of the impaled mudokons flailing in the wind. I can't be arsed to think of anything more detailed right now.