Happy day of the woman!

[Manco]

Okay, but I don't think it's reasonable enough to make it a rule (based on inability to detect gender of people examined), and that denies Nepsotic's statement

Not really: http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/01/26...gender-brains/

Antonio Guillamon, who led the research, said: “Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female.”

as there is not a known rule of how male/female brain is structured.

But you can make reasonable assumptions until more concrete rules are found.

[Nepsotic]

Okay, but I don't think it's reasonable enough to make it a rule (based on inability to detect gender of people examined), and that denies Nepsotic's statement:



as there is not a known rule of how male/female brain is structured.

Okay but I wasn't being serious.

[Varrok]

That's okay, because you weren't right anyway, Nep.

Antonio Guillamon, who led the research, said: “Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female.”

They... feel... female?

You know when studies are biased, when they start using feelings instead of arguments.

Not to mention a sample of less than 100 is highly unreliable in such studies, especially compared to 1.5 thousand people examined in the "Can You Tell Which Brains Are Male? Neither Can These Scientists" article.

[Manco]

They... feel... female?

You know when studies are biased, when they start using feelings instead of arguments.

As in, they generally conform to the expectations of a ‘male’ or ‘female’ brain. The scientist isn’t getting all warm and fuzzy, he’s making a generalization.

Not to mention a sample of less than 100 is highly unreliable in such studies, especially compared to 1.5 thousand people examined in the "Can You Tell Which Brains Are Male? Neither Can These Scientists" article.

You can look at both and come to some consistent conclusions: there’s no binary ‘male’ or ‘female’ brain but a whole range, with most people sitting somewhere in that range; you can still make broad generalizations about the person’s gender based on their brain; transgender people’s brains will generally trend towards the individual’s gender identity.

[Varrok]

I do see where you're coming from, but I can't really agree with that, since the article I provided does not really match your explanation, in both title (the premise) and the content

[Manco]

I do see where you're coming from, but I can't really agree with that, since the article I provided does not really match your explanation, in both title (the premise) and the content

The article has an over-simplified title. As for the content:

"Our study demonstrates that although there are sex/gender differences in brain structure, brains do not fall into two classes, one typical of males and the other typical of females, nor are they aligned along a 'male brain-female brain' continuum," Daphna Joel of Tel Aviv University and colleagues wrote.

"Our study demonstrates that, although there are sex/gender differences in the brain, human brains do not belong to one of two distinct categories: male brain/female brain," they wrote.

What the study shows is that there is no single pattern that defines a ‘male’ or ‘female’ brain, and that most brains show a mix of both ‘male’ and ‘female’ traits. Because of this it’s very difficult to intuit the gender of a brain based solely on the scan.

What it doesn’t say is that these scans prove that all brains are identical, or that you can’t make generalizations from the statistics. Look at the figures in the original research, there is still an overall split between male and female. From that information it’s possible to make generalizations about the gender of a brain, but there’s enough variance that you’re not always going to be correct.


Further evidence that transgender people’s brains show consistencies with their perceived gender identity’s control brains: http://transcience-project.org/brain_sex.html

[Varrok]

So you'll agree if I say that instead of:

Actually trans peoples' brains are actually structured as the brain of their gender, not their sex.

he should have said:

Actually trans peoples' brains are *usually* structured as the brain of their gender, not their sex.

?

Any conclusion that renders Nepsotic's statements false satisfy me lol.

[Manco]

So you'll agree if I say that instead of:

he should have said:

?

Yes, I think that the new statement would be correct. Not that I support you being spiteful towards Nep.

[FrustratedAssassin]

Any conclusion that renders Nepsotic's statements false satisfy me lol.

It's funny because you're just as bad as him

[Mac Sirloin]

Special thanks to Vexen for kicking off this nigh-incomprehensible shitstorm.

Best strawman ever.

How am I saying people are invalid? I said it's fucking dumb. Sure, genuine trans people are mentally, not their physical gender. Saying "I'm 30% woman cuz i likes tha cleanin" is fucking retarded and a pathetic cry for attention. I don't care if people do it, but that is what it is.

Stop making emotion-based arguments because you basically said nothing there.

Pls don't say retarded ;_;

I totally agree though, nickle and diming your gender is pretty fucking ridiculous. If you're young and finding you're expressing yourself through gender politics well, okay, but arguing gender in percentiles is actual pseudoscience.

You can have qualities that express masculinity or femininity (obviously) but all of that is rooted in the culture of a specific gender. I cock my hips (they don't lie) but I'm fairly blatantly male, and do not consider that trait anything other than a miniscule, meaningless part of my body language.

Anyway I am WELL AWARE I have already bitten off more than I can chew with this post so

[Manco]

I don't think anyone describing themselves as "30% female" is actually saying they've calculated a specific number on a scale, they're just using it as a linguistic shorthand to get across a rough idea of how they perceive the balance of their gender identity.

[Mac Sirloin]

You're absolutely right, and I'm really just expressing incredulity at a strawman of young people who don't know any better anyway. I would not presume to make blanket statements about trans/intersex/whatever people in case Slog Bait decides to get petty and negrep me for it again.

Also, BRUCE Jenner absolutely had reassignment surgery to pull attention away from the vehicular manslaughter charges. I have no intention of devaluing intersex people of any kind, but the guy just adopted a 'beautiful baby boy' to enhance his image that much more. It's nothing but spin and it's disgusting how he's played people into sympathizing with his irresponsible frankenstein ass. Fuck Bruce Jenner and any other wretch attached to that horrific band of Karcrashians.

[Vlam]

Who would do the thread about the United States presidential election?

[Nepsotic]

It's funny because you're just as bad as him

See, this is why we like to make fun of you. You come into threads, don't make any actual arguments, but instead get all offended and act like it gives you certain rights.

The reason your posts piss me off because at least if people don't agree with me, there's a discussion there, there's something to talk about.

When you come in and talk about how offended you are, nobody cares about that except you, (and maybe Job McYossie) yet for some reason you still think it counts as a sound argument.
Actually start saying things or stop posting all together because what was funny at first is getting really tiresome now.

Anyway, aside from a bit of light trolling, I didn't want to get too involved in this thread shit show because I genuinely don't know that much about the subject.
To sum my thoughts up - there are too many people pretending to be trans for attention, fuck those people. There are also legitimate trans people who don't go and blog about how trans they are because the whole point is that they don't want people to know.

[Slog Bait]

I would not presume to make blanket statements about trans/intersex/whatever people in case Slog Bait decides to get petty and negrep me for it again.

????? How can you call me petty when you're still bitter about something that happened like a year and a half ago that's already been resolved

I direct your bitter ass in this direction good sir

[STM]

Who would do the thread about the United States presidential election?

You're that man, Vlam. Just go ahead and Vlaminate one up.



Also, despite my disgusting social liberalism that knows almost no bounds, I do think that some gender/sexuality stuff goes a bit beyond the realms of plausibility. My mind recalls one particular user who supposedly believes she is "shoekin", which...I mean I assumed for the sake of humanity was tongue in cheek, but apparently she's the sort of person who'd genuinely believe she's a fucking shoe. Which is making me snigger as I type this. Often the people that are Demigemiremisexual Jared Leto Headmate Haribokin are the same people that believe white people can pull off dreads and I DON'T GET THAT.

I'm personally subscribe to the belief that I am in fact Bovril (as cemented by Vyrien's most esteemed opinion), or Bovkin if you will. Bov, Bovme, Bovril, Bovrille, Bovthon pronouns please.

Foot note: I believe people should express themselves however makes them happy so I do not really give a fuck about what gender or sex people are.

[FrustratedAssassin]

See, this is why we like to make fun of you. You come into threads, don't make any actual arguments, but instead get all offended and act like it gives you certain rights.

There are also legitimate trans people who don't go and blog about how trans they are because the whole point is that they don't want people to know.

I have no idea what you're talking about in the first paragraph, all I did was make an observation about both of you being horrible people.

And no, nobody knowing isn't the whole point. The whole point is wanting people to treat you like a normal fucking person. Please don't act like you know shit. But somehow people who blog about being trans aren't "legitimate"? Who the fuck are you to decide who is "legitimate" and who isn't?

But no, it's totally ok, cause you see, being offended by people's identities gives you certain rights.

[Nepsotic]

You've never been a good contributor to this forum, you started out as a dick and now you're this overly offended little dipshit who takes everything personally even when something is blatantly a joke or not even directed at you. Stop trying to make everything about yourself you pungent cum-wad.

I'm a horrible person? Oh, you know that do you? Based on what? Some posts I made on a random forum on the internet which you don't agree with? And apparently you know how knowledgeable I am on the subject. Did you also know that I'm currently Skyping with one of my close friends as I type this, and we're laughing at how pathetic you are? They're trans, by the way.

Who the fuck are you to decide who is "legitimate" and who isn't?

I'm smart enough to the point where it's obvious to me who is doing it for attention and who has genuine gender dysphoria. Do I care? Not particularly, but that doesn't mean I don't see it as being shitty when someone is giving transexuals a bad name by being a whiny little bitch every time somebody makes an offhanded comment which was either in jest or had nothing to do with them.

But no, it's totally ok, cause you see, being offended by people's identities gives you certain rights.

Do you honestly think I care enough about you or what you have to say to the extent that I'm offended?

[Manco]

Also, BRUCE Jenner absolutely had reassignment surgery to pull attention away from the vehicular manslaughter charges.

Changing your entire identity in a controversial manner right down to expensive and possibly irreversible surgery is a rather bizarre way of trying to avoid bad press. I don't know when those charges were made but I know there were rumours about Jenner's gender for years before she came out. Hell, I'm not even sure you can get that surgery without a professional diagnosis.

The reason your posts piss me off because at least if people don't agree with me, there's a discussion there, there's something to talk about.

You know if people don't like you they don't have to provide a critical thesis about it?

Also, despite my disgusting social liberalism that knows almost no bounds, I do think that some gender/sexuality stuff goes a bit beyond the realms of plausibility. My mind recalls one particular user who supposedly believes she is "shoekin", which...I mean I assumed for the sake of humanity was tongue in cheek, but apparently she's the sort of person who'd genuinely believe she's a fucking shoe. Which is making me snigger as I type this. Often the people that are Demigemiremisexual Jared Leto Headmate Haribokin are the same people that believe white people can pull off dreads and I DON'T GET THAT.

Yeah, there are people out there that think like that, but they're a very tiny minority who get a disproportionate amount of attention, and people use them as a way of discrediting legitimate dysphoria.

[Vyrien]

But somehow people who blog about being trans aren't "legitimate"? Who the fuck are you to decide who is and who isn't.

You aren't seeing what he's saying because you're so wrapped up in wanting to hate him, get your head out of your arse for a minute instead of going at everything like a cortisol fuelled bull at a gate. He said there're transtrenders who are cunts because they're just saying it to look cool, aren't actually trans but are claiming they are because they're special snowflakes. And there are genuine trans people who don't blog about it because they dont want people to know. He never said anything about trans people who blog aren't legit, he didn't even address that. He was just comparing the overly vocal, always offended trender brigade with the quiet minority.

Also just like trans people today the LGB community suffered an outbreak of trenders 'it's so cool to be bi but ew wtf why would I kiss a member of the same gender' a few years back.

[Nate]

To sum my thoughts up - there are too many people pretending to be trans for attention, fuck those people. There are also legitimate trans people who don't go and blog about how trans they are because the whole point is that they don't want people to know.

You know what? That's not the whole point. There are some trans people who want to live a quiet life and pass (for want of a better term) and there are some trans people actively embrace their identity of being trans. There are some trans people who transition to the other gender entirely, and others who are more androgynous. There are some trans people don't want people to know, and others who speak out in order to increase awareness and help other people out.

A point is that there's no one way of being trans. But that said, THE point is that it's not your business or mine how other people choose to live their life, so you should just keep your opinions to yourself.

I'm a horrible person? Oh, you know that do you? Based on what? Some posts I made on a random forum on the internet which you don't agree with?

You know what? You are a horrible person. Possibly not in real life, possibly whatever-your-real-name-is goes out, has friends, treats domesticated animals kindly... but 'Nepsotic', your internet persona, is truly horrible. If I met someone in real life who acted like you do on here, I would avoid them like the plague.

I'm smart enough to the point where it's obvious to me who is doing it for attention and who has genuine gender dysphoria.

Wow. You should lend your expertise to the field of psychology, if you're that magically insightful about anyone you've seen two paragraphs of blog post from.

Do you honestly think I care enough about you or what you have to say to the extent that I'm offended?

Why do you keep replying, then?

[Nepsotic]

So if I reply to something that makes me offended about it? You're right, Nate, I'm so triggered right now. Apparently defending myself makes me offended.

Wow. You should lend your expertise to the field of psychology, if you're that magically insightful about anyone you've seen two paragraphs of blog post from.

What the fuck are you on about?

there are some trans people actively embrace their identity of being trans.

When they actively make being trans a part of their identity, that's when problems arise.

You know what? You are a horrible person. Possibly not in real life, possibly whatever-your-real-name-is goes out, has friends, treats domesticated animals kindly... but 'Nepsotic', your internet persona, is truly horrible. If I met someone in real life who acted like you do on here, I would avoid them like the plague.

The sass is unreal.

[Nate]

So if I reply to something that makes me offended about it? You're right, Nate, I'm so triggered right now.

Oh, so you do care about it, just not enough to be offended? Thanks for clarifying.

What the fuck are you on about?

You claim to be able to detect people's intentions and inner thoughts. You're either psychic or the most skilled analyst that the world has ever seen.

When they actively make being trans a part of their identity, that's when problems arise.

Why? How does it harm anyone if anyone feels a sense of identification to a group?

[Vyrien]

It's not the 'trans identity' that's the problem it's the people who're using the label to make themselves feel special then actively ruining it for the people who are genuine.

Kind of like how the radical feminists have caused the term 'feminist' to become perjorated to the point where people are ashamed to call themselves feminists because of the association.

[STM]

I've yet to see a trans person/ person who calls their self trans, that is empirically doing so to garner attention.

When there is a group that is often suppressed, under represented or faces constructive discrimination, there will always be a subsequent percentage that is prone to being more vocal about what defines them to society; what causes their discrimination. This sub-demographic will make this quality a part of whom they are because they are taking up the mantle as a defender of their group. Becoming this 'extremist' does not make them somehow inferior to the quieter members of the group, simply because of their perceived extremism, rather, it is a simple psychological-social tool employed by conservative individuals holding structural power to brand these people as extremists.

Socialists will always have communists, black rights activists will always have Pink Panthers and the LGBT+ community will always "radicals"; these far-left thinkers are only a response, and in fact a creation, of oppression.

[Varrok]

Also, BRUCE Jenner absolutely had reassignment surgery to pull attention away from the vehicular manslaughter charges.

Changing your entire identity in a controversial manner right down to expensive and possibly irreversible surgery is a rather bizarre way of trying to avoid bad press.

He hasn't gone through genital mutilation surgery, only the cosmetic surgery (at least according to wikipedia). Unless you mean cosmetic surgery, then ok.

[Vlam]

Transgender suicide rates rise.

[Varrok]

All suicide rates are on the rise, apparently.

[Slog Bait]

I blame overpopulation

[Varrok]

Don't blame them, you see, they're trying their best to fix the problem.