aliens and astronomy

[moxco]

Other universes would not be any distance away at all. They would have distinct spatial dimensions (and perhaps ages and physical laws) so they cannot be reached in any direction. They are something else entirely from our universe, words like "somewhere" or "somewhen" don't apply.

Then what basis would anyone have for believing in such things?

[Phylum]

It's purely speculation. It's the though of existence outside of existence in a way.

[Bullet Magnet]

Then what basis would anyone have for believing in such things?

I didn't say I believe in them, just that that is what other universes are. Other concentrations of matter far away are indeed as you pointed out, part of our universe, but that is not what is meant at all by other universes.

As it is other universes are a result of some and a solution to other physics equations. They drop out like fruit from a tree. Testing such claims is the tricky part, which is why I reserve judgement, fascinating a it is.

I'm always interested when I hear of possible ways to test it.

[Scraby]

i have just read an interesting discovery about a huge lake at jupiters moon europa.They also said that the underside of europa has water oceans witch arent frozen and are warm enough to sustain life.

[Bullet Magnet]

I wish you'd post your sources.

Though this seems like old news to me. Very old.

[LDG519]

lake? frozen lake or just super cold lake (probable frozen) they shound definately send a submarin there to drill under the ice, get recordings of life inside that moon if possable snatch a sample and somehow get it back to earth for study, although I think that last part is extream wishful thinking

[Scraby]

well i read from a croatian science site,so if you use an translator the meaning of words will be totaly different....and no the lake isnt frozen thats the news,and they say that there might be even life underneath,becouse jupiter stretches europa in its orbit causing friction and warmth that heats up the moon melting the ice constantly,and the top layer of ice seems to serve as a protection becouse europa has no atmosphere
edit: this is the source but idk if the translator will translate the words correctly,i see that they dont work well :/ http://www.znanost.com/clanak/nasa-o...j-kori-europe/

[STM]

Seems a little optimistic, but I don't know, I'd love for there to be liquid oceans underneath the moon. However water does not equate to life. It's probably far too cold for extremophiles to have even evolved in the first place.

[Wings of Fire]

Though this seems like old news to me. Very old.

Yeah, I read a Horrible Science book a decade ago that said Europa may support life.

[Nate]

I wish you'd post your sources.

Though this seems like old news to me. Very old.

No, this one is actually new news.

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/...117-1nkcq.html

[Scraby]

the scientists retested the neutrons a couple of more times,they have finally concluded that they are faster than light,also i read something that nasa intends on making a tractor beam as seen from star wars and star trek.

[STM]

*neutrinos =)

A beam like that would be magnificently helpful for lifting objects of high mass, it could revolutionise the building industry for instance, but I can't imagine the scientists that wish to develop it will have an easy time with the physics of such a construct.

You got the source Scraby?

[Scraby]

well i have the source but it is all in croatian :/ i keep track on one of these sites for all kinds of news XD i also saw something about new contact lenses with computers so that you can see a virtual world infront of you
http://www.znanost.com/clanak/nasa-k...a-vucnu-zraku/

and this is for the neutrinos
http://www.znanost.com/clanak/i-drug...ne-svjetlosti/

also a bit off topic but i heard something interesting that scientists made an ultra light metal even lighter than a feather.

[Bullet Magnet]

Last I heard, the retest showed that all was normal. When making such precise timing measurements GPS has to be involved, which depends on satellites and Einstein's relativity (which is exactly the theory that was supposed to have been disproven here).

Because the satellites are moving in relation to each other and the ground and so forth there are other relativistic effects that affect measurements of time. Normally these do not matter, but with the precision required to measure such speeds we're talking about, they do. It seems extraordinary, but in the original experiment CERN forgot to account for this.

It turns out that the neutrinos arrived sooner than expected by exactly the amount that those relativistic effects would have altered the measurements. That is, 3 nanoseconds.

Looking around now, this has been the major criticism, but it doesn't seemed to have killed it, so perhaps there is something more. Still, cumulative systematic errors in an apparatus and operation the size of a country seems much more likely to me than a violation of physical law.

Because what we call the "speed of light" is actually the speed limit of the universe. Faster speeds are literally not allowed by physics. That light reaches this speed in a vacuum is more of a coincidence. The photon is a massless, chargeless particle that is its own antiparticle. Generally quite unique, and as a result of its properties when nothing is slowing it down (such as a medium or gravity) it simply leaps to the fastest speed possible.

Unless it does turn out to have some minuscule mass, in which case the speed of light is actually slightly less than c.

[Scraby]

well i do think it is possible to go faster than light,people long ago believed that nothing can go faster than sound,we disproved that with our jet airplanes,mabe in some ten million years people will laught back at this time when people thought that nothing is faster than light...

[MeechMunchie]

Alternatively, maybe not.

[STM]

I watched an interesting theory last night on a Nat Geo programme, I don't really believe it as a good argument myself but nevertheless this was it:

A major plausibility for intelligent design/ God's creation of the universe is its physics. Perhaps equally as important as the whole 'goldilocks zone' debate, it is interesting to note that our universes physics are perfect for humanity to exist. If you are a believer that multiple universes do exist, then you will also understand that their laws of physics would be very different to our own, making it literally impossible for us to breach into them and survive in them.

Of course there are counter arguments for the theory but nevertheless it's just something that sparked my interest for a minute.

[Scraby]

i heard that myself but i dont think if you enter a nother universe that you will disperse,i did hear that some scientists think that in some universes if they exist its not the same like here but who knows,they did comment on a universe where atoms wont bind... creepy

[Wings of Fire]

We have total observer bias in this situation. If the physics of the universe did not allow life to exist then we wouldn't know about it.

[STM]

I suppose, and then that's a key argument against the hypothesis.

[Bullet Magnet]

Conditions are hardly perfect. Pick a point at random in the universe: on a scale of one to ten, how likely is it that you would die there in seconds? It all wants to kill us! The prettier, the deadlier.

Plus: conditions anywhere have only been suitable for us so far. And only recently. It is elementary that we do not live in the best of all possible universes. We already know the infinite dark that is approaching when the age of stars comes to an end.

Of course, conditions are only suitable for life as we know it. Other conditions might allow for something else that could not even conceive of something like us.

We're like a puddle marveling at how well it fits into its pothole, even as it evaporates into nothing.

[Scraby]

hawking said something that the future of mankind would be colonisation of other star systems,and he also said that all countries should unite and launch colonies into space.

[LDG519]

we'll have to go to other star systems if we hope to survive after our sun dies, I'ts quite a long way off but unless we kill each other before than there would be someone left to worry about it

[Nate]

Looking around now, this has been the major criticism, but it doesn't seemed to have killed it, so perhaps there is something more. Still, cumulative systematic errors in an apparatus and operation the size of a country seems much more likely to me than a violation of physical law.

Last I heard (which was after the GPS criticism, so I assume they're taking it in to account), more tests were supporting the faster-than-light analysis.


I'm not widely advertising it though, because it annoys me when people who've never heard of Occam's Razor assume that the entirety of Physics as we know it must be wrong.

[Scraby]

i have been reading an interesting thread in witch the scientists said that we had a 5th planet in our solar system that was a gas giant,similar to the frozen giants like neptune and uranus,but as they said jupiter sling shot it out of the system.

[Bullet Magnet]

I do not know how that could be known. But maybe.

[Scraby]

well they said that they calculated the amount of asteroid belts and idk how but they think it was probably between saturn and jupiter,but it entered near the orbit of jupiter making it sling shot out of the system... sad :/

[Wings of Fire]

If it were between Jupiter and Saturn then surely it would be the 6th planet in the system?

[STM]

it depends on the orbit does it not, and how long it spends its time closer or further than Jupiter.

[Scraby]

yep that is correct,nasa figured out that they can launch probes deep into space with jupiter,by sling shooting them out.