Cloneing Cattle or any other kind of live stock for food! Is it better or for worse!

[Fuzzles!]

I really hope you're kidding.

Sorry no, at least not here in Canada, it was all over the news.

We'll just have huge, terrible factories with gibbering blobs of meat being fed intravenously through tubes.

This is exactly right. I mean it's the most economical way right? They have no skeletal structures so the meat would be nice and tender, and most of the internal organs wouldn't be there so you could maximize the meat. And the absence of beaks and eyes etc. would mean that you wouldn't have to hire someone to cut them off/out. Of course, what would hot dogs be made of then?

[Mac the Janitor]

I thought they change their name from Kentucky Fried Chicken to Kitchen Fresh Chicken cos now everybody knows anything "fried" really is really unhealthy.

But that's just me.

[Volsung]

Wow. That really offends my sensibilities. And I say that only because I find it horrific that its actually being done, but then, when I think about it, it makes sense. I'd rather that be going on than what we've done to turkeys. How they've been bred and modified to be so rotund that they are no longer able to impregnate without artificial insemination. Meaning these Turkeys are so fat they can no longer have sex. At least these gibbering blobs don't have a brain or any way of knowing they were once supposed to be chickens. Its no worse than a single-celled organism when you get down to it. Still, I wouldn't want to spend my nights there with those...meatsacks.

And thats a brave new race of creatures spawned by Man's almighty hand of doom!

EDIT: I thought that too, Mac. I thought that too....

[paramiteabe]

PA, I don't understand how cloneing humans would make them soulless. Why wouldn't god just give them a soul? Test-tube babies are created in almost the same fashion, yet they without a doubt resemble every other human, who all presumably have "souls". Twins share the exact same genetic material, sometimes more closely than a clone does its parent. Would one say that twins share the same soul because they are genetically identical? or is one of them spiritually devoid? If they both do indeed have souls, then genetics must not really play a role in who gets a chance at an afterlife.

Are cows Man-made animals? My answer would be no. They've been domesticated by us, and are thus quite different (in my opinion) than their wild ancestors, but at best this makes them man-made perversions. Why would cloning them affect their status as natural animals? I fail to see the mindset. If you want to see a Man-made animal, take a look at dogs. These have been domesticated and twisted and shaped so much that certain breeds hardly seem like dogs anymore. And their genetic ancestor was the wolf. A dachsund is a far cry from any wolf I've ever seen.

As for not having the power of God, I urge one to think on this: what other purpose does our culture of industrialization and scientific progress serve? Our culture of humans live in houses run on electricity. We have created these things to suit our needs. Of course, this is nothing more than something a bird might do--create its own habitat--but our culture takes it so much further. We want to live in a world where sickness and death are distant memories. Would that not be a Godlike existence? We can create new species with genetic training or modification, and we've long had the power to wipe other species out of existence. Is that not a Godlike ability? We're gaining control of every possible kind of energy source to use for our own ends. Is that not a godlike ability? We can bring people into the world, and we can take them out. We get to choose who lives and dies. Is this not a godlike ability? Face it: Humans are the new gods. and we're wankers.

Death. TheRaisin is going to blow a gasket if you keep insisting "Meant" is spelled "Mean't"

You still don't understand what a soul really is do ya? Its not a personality. A soul is more complicated than that. A soul is you and mainly a soul is a part of God. Everybody you and I are a part of God. In that sense we are the everlasting loveing gift of God. In a sense we are our own gift from God. A soul has nothing to do with genetics or personality or offspring or traits or what not. We are the soul that possess those traits and those traits we possess are other gifts from God its called blessings. So now we are the gift of God and God is giveing us other smaller gifts or blessings which identifies us as individuals.

Whoa to you if you seem to think we are individual gods! That is a very dangerous analogy. We have blessings from God which gives us our dyminion of this world. Thats why we can build great nations and destroy people and such. God is rightious and we are not because we are weak.

There is one and only one Almighty. And if you seem to think your a god then you have a rude awakening headed for you! I am not going to get into a religious debate. That is all I will say.

[Codek]

PA; as sound as your theory is, the human "soul" has nothing to do with electromagnetism. Your body is an electrochemical machine, and you are its' command processor. But you create your own commands, fuelled by curiosity, past events, and personal preferences. This is a point that robots and androids may reach - a point where they begin to disregard their preset commands in favour of making their own commands.

Life is an anomaly in the universe, and so is self awareness. It's a sign that the universe is an increadibly diverse place, and an indication that whatever we find elsewhere in the universe will most likely be increadibly fantastic.

[Fuzzles!]

I thought they change their name from Kentucky Fried Chicken to Kitchen Fresh Chicken cos now everybody knows anything "fried" really is really unhealthy.

But that's just me.

Yeah could be elsewhere, in Canada it's not called that, it's just KFC. I saw an add on a US channel the other day, they kept calling what they were eating Kitchen Fresh Chicken and I had NO idea what they were on about.

But Canada is messed that way, bad regulatory gov't bodies here. I wouldn't eat anything unless it was locally grown, with the exception of fruit that comes from the US. But I'm a vegetarian so I don't have to worry about ingesting any of the hormones they inject into meat (like the turkeys). I just have to worry about all the hormones and pesticides they inject into fruit and veggies!

[Codek]

I'm not a vegetarian, and I'm not into organic food. I'm not really bothered about local produce either. People get paranoid about things like this but at the end of the day they are just wasting time they could spend enjoying themselves.

I personally don't eat chicken unless it is processed by a company that is inspected for hygene and stuff. McDonalds and Burger King are both under heavy watch for cleanliness and food quality, so I trust them.

I heard one particular story that made me laugh, about some person who bit into a chicken mcsandwich, only to find it covered in a mayonaise-like substance. Apparantly it was the pus from a chicken-ulcer. HOWEVER, before you go off and puke, I would like to point out that the chicken mcsandwich is actually processed, and is not really a real fillet.

In actual fact, all the parts that COULD have a chicken ulcer on are removed and sold as fillets. And not even those would go through, because they would be visible. Parts like the head and feet are completely removed before the chicken gets anywhere even near processing, so any stories of heads and feet being found in the chicken mcsandwich are also lies.

Interesting how the stories and claims compaire with the way things are really done isn't it?

[Fez]

wont it get rid of disease in cattle, like mad cow disease.

*thinks of a perticular Alan Partridge episode about mad cow disease*

ahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahah! Amazing.....

[Fuzzles!]

I'm not a vegetarian, and I'm not into organic food. I'm not really bothered about local produce either. People get paranoid about things like this but at the end of the day they are just wasting time they could spend enjoying themselves.

Totally agree with your statement here. I just can not stand the taste or texture of meat, hence why I don't eat it. Never even liked it as a child. And these days, fast food could quite possibly be some of the most hygenic food you could eat!

[Esus]

You still don't understand what a soul really is do ya? Its not a personality. A soul is more complicated than that. A soul is you and mainly a soul is a part of God. Everybody you and I are a part of God. In that sense we are the everlasting loveing gift of God. In a sense we are our own gift from God. A soul has nothing to do with genetics or personality or offspring or traits or what not. We are the soul that possess those traits and those traits we possess are other gifts from God its called blessings. So now we are the gift of God and God is giveing us other smaller gifts or blessings which identifies us as individuals.

Whoa to you if you seem to think we are individual gods! That is a very dangerous analogy. We have blessings from God which gives us our dyminion of this world. Thats why we can build great nations and destroy people and such. God is rightious and we are not because we are weak.

There is one and only one Almighty. And if you seem to think your a god then you have a rude awakening headed for you! I am not going to get into a religious debate. That is all I will say.

I still can't get over this with you PA, you're so godamned genuine. Everything you say is said with true, honest, genuine belief. And it's ridiculous.

Though you didn't answer the main question:

PA, I don't understand how cloneing humans would make them soulless. Why wouldn't god just give them a soul? Test-tube babies are created in almost the same fashion, yet they without a doubt resemble every other human, who all presumably have "souls". Twins share the exact same genetic material, sometimes more closely than a clone does its parent. Would one say that twins share the same soul because they are genetically identical? or is one of them spiritually devoid? If they both do indeed have souls, then genetics must not really play a role in who gets a chance at an afterlife.

Whoa to you if you seem to think we are individual gods! That is a very dangerous analogy. We have blessings from God which gives us our dyminion of this world. Thats why we can build great nations and destroy people and such. God is rightious and we are not because we are weak.

There is one and only one Almighty. And if you seem to think your a god then you have a rude awakening headed for you! I am not going to get into a religious debate. That is all I will say.

No, Volsung is correct. We can even manipulate the body to die slowly, we can engineer various diseases and viruses that we can slowly spread out and decimate entire populations. We can laugh powerful weapons and wipe out entire segments of the world in just seconds.
We can genetically engineer creatures to fit in with our artificial surroundings. Isn't that what God did when designing the animals?

We are no longer weak. If we wanted, we could obliterate Mars. We could obliterate the Moon and the Earth. We can wipe out entire species and we can genetically alter them so they become new species. We can travel through space. What makes any other god so different? We can manipulate various points of the weather with the advanced machinery. We can cause Earthquakes. We can place a genetically altered race on Mars, watch its progress as Gods and make their primitiveness pray to us as gods.
If they disobey us, we can send probes to kill the ones who do so. If they disobey a rule... such as not eating an apple, we can kill them all. Thats if we were to put genetically altered humans on an empty island or a oxygen covered mars.

[Jacob]

'A clone will not have a soul because a soul is a gift from God and only God can make souls.'

So, when the first Cloned human is created and, give it time, there will be one created. She/He will be like a Robot. Okay...so, when you're proved utterly wrong and the person is like everybody else, then does that mean you will start thinking about the "What if...?" factor in your beliefs?

'You still don't understand what a soul really is do ya? Its not a personality. A soul is more complicated than that.'

I always thought it's what shaped your personality. I was going to go on and say that i would have believed that certain personality aspects would have been formed when the Soul jumped from different bodies...but you believe the Soul is created once and then judged. Which, to me, seems a waste of a Soul.

I'm also interested in what you think about people being regressed into their "past lives"? Because then this means that God is letting Souls jump around in different bodies and not taking them back over a certain amount of time. Which would also mean that peoples dedication is been wasted. Which also means lack of a social/fun life. But still.

PA, your faith/beliefs is on par with the people who didn't want local anthesetic...

[Codek]

PA you strike me as being very opinionated. Yes that's right opinionated. You insist that your views and opinions are the right ones for something that's very much a questionmark area. The science of the soul is nonexistant, there is nothing factual there, only various religions and beleifs.

A religion tells you what to think about these scary grey areas. That's why it's so uplifting, because questions about death, souls, and gods are all answered in away that allows you to congregate in an old building every sunday and sing about how great this being you've never seen before is. Have you never even stopped to question your own religion?

Obviously not. You insist that your view is the right one because it's the one that your religion supports. Are you a genuine beleiver who is just educating the word of god? No of course you are not, you're just telling others how to think without even mentioning why it would benefit them. If you're all about christianity, then teach a man to respect his neighbour, love his children, and be kind, forgiving and generous. Let him find his own way in his religious beliefs.

I for one beleive that this entire discussion is completely subjective. If you don't like the idea of eating cloned meat, then write a letter to whoever it is you need to, and demand that cloned meat products be clearly marked and labeled as such. That way you can avoid it. Don't suddenly stop eating something because your nextdoor neighbours friends uncles daughter said that her husband won't eat such and such because it's genetically modified or whatever. Official information is more sound than aunt betty from number 21.

[Statikk HDM]

KFC actually uses chicken all right? Just let the retarded urban legend die already! Eating cloned meat is no less ethical than eating meat that was kept in a slaughterhouse. Slaughterhouses will always be disgusting, disturbing places, whats kept in one is secondary. Also, CLONES WILL HAVE SOULS. To be human is to have a soul and God wouldn't deny anybody a soul. Its not a "gift," its a mandatory part of being human. I for one would seriously question the nature of God if he allowed a soulless human to be created.

[Codek]

This KFC using cloned meat stuff is bullshit.

http://www.topsecretrecipes.com/sleu...ds/legend4.htm

[Jacob]

Actually, Death, there was an experiment. I think it was the 21 grams experiment [might be a completly different number] but people who died suddenly lost 21 grams. This was said to be the Soul leaving the body.

[Codek]

That 21 grams is probably the air leaving the body.

[Jacob]

'That 21 grams is probably the air leaving the body.'

Never proven either way. I hope they do another, modernised, one. But you'll get all those f*ckabillies all saying "No, you can't wait until some random person dies. It's inhumane!!". Sillyness.

[TheRaisin]

Boy, how crazy this whole thing has gotten. This thread is going to resurface again and again and again, I'll bet. The only way to stop the impending madness is to end the thread now. So here are my final thoughts: I agree with Volsung and Death, even though Death doesn't know how to spell "meant". I disagree with paramiteabe, and I have found a new dislike for him upon discovering this super-religious freak side of him.

Okay, trust me, it's time to let this thread die before it can grow into a monster. Just you remember what I said about impending madness!

[Codek]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mean%27t

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

[paramiteabe]

Now believe what you want ok I don't give a shit because I know and understand for myself that there is something higher than us and I refer that as to being God. Now I am not a dip shit bible freak whome yells "Praise the Lord every single day as what you ever so constantly think I do. So when I state stuff like what I said before its only my view of what I see in all of our cultures all over the world. And which I conclude that what we as a human race think is right is in reality wrong and we are paying for it. We think we are gods or what ever and that my friends is where the downfall of mankind will happen. Mainly to put my whole belief system that I have created myself into one Paragragh it would be.

We as the Human race are stupid and unwise that we will see our own destruction because we believe we are gods and have every right to rule on high, and create and destroy at will and actually do it. When in reality behind the scenes our true weak self and destruction is envitable in the eyes of the higher being whome created us and loves us. Admit to your wrong doings and life will be fine and you can go on liveing your life to the fullest and have all the fun you want. Just remember make sure we admit that we are wrong. If we don't The Creator the highest of all beings will bring to us punishment through our daily lives. If we just say we are wrong we will be enlightened and gloryfied in the eyes of the high one.

Humility is the key to spiritual enlightenment!

Woowhoo I have my own religion which is more or less every religion all wraped up in one. I call it Humilism! I think that paragragh will be the foundation of my belief system. Anyway back to topic

Paramiteabe...

[Fuzzles!]

KFC actually uses chicken all right? Just let the retarded urban legend die already! Eating cloned meat is no less ethical than eating meat that was kept in a slaughterhouse. Slaughterhouses will always be disgusting, disturbing places, whats kept in one is secondary. Also, CLONES WILL HAVE SOULS. To be human is to have a soul and God wouldn't deny anybody a soul. Its not a "gift," its a mandatory part of being human. I for one would seriously question the nature of God if he allowed a soulless human to be created.

For the record, I never said KFC was using cloned meat. They have bred their chickens to be fatter, jucier, and easier to keep. Of course it's real chicken. It's just been modified through breeding.

When I was in my 3rd year of Electrical Engineering, for some freaking reason they took us to a slaughterhouse. And we got to see all of these crazy freaking videos of the way other places do it - to make the slaughterhouses seem better than they actually are. And one of them was the marketing information from KFC with their chickens. Yes could have been changed or altered, but I'm just telling you what I saw with my own two eyes and read reports on, I'm not spewing some 7th grade Urban Legend I read on the Internet. Thanks.

And you're right about the monstrosity that is a slaughterhouse, let me tell you there were some big tough guys with me that wouldn't touch a hot dog for months. I think it was watching the guy that removes the anus' out of cows that did it really. That or the killing floor.

[Esus]

When I read religious posts from religious people, i.e: PA, the Chrostian religion strikes me as a stupid cult that you hear about all the time. It's ridiculous.

[Mac the Janitor]

When I read religious posts from religious people, i.e: PA, the Chrostian religion strikes me as a stupid cult that you hear about all the time. It's ridiculous.

I could really go into detail on my opinion on the Christian religion, but I'll most likely offend way too many people to count.

[paramiteabe]

Like I said hard core Christians and I am talking about people whome are constantly saying "praise the Lord!" are Jesus freaks. I mean its one thing to believe in God its another thing to go over board and abuse it. Theres nothing wrong with it but when it come to abuseing that faith then it gets messy.

Im a Catholic not a Christian huge difference!

[Esus]

Well, there's not really a huge difference, is there?
If I remember my history correctly, Catholicism has always been a branch of Christianity, just like the Protestants are a different branch of it. So, unless you're in a very mutated one, then it is part of Christianity.

[Jacob]

I'm a Catholic. There's a massive difference between me and you PA, and i wonder why that is.

Animals play God all the time, why can't we?

[and yes, i know we're animals, nobody tell me what i already know. Such as the size of appendages of certain forumers...]

[Codek]

[and yes, i know we're animals, nobody tell me what i already know. Such as the size of appendages of certain forumers...]

The penis is not an appendage, it's an organ.

[Jacob]

'The penis is not an appendage, it's an organ.'

Yeh, i know. That's why i said "appendage" and not "organ". Eww, can you be any filthier.

Oh and by the by, you can spell mean't as meant. Both are equally correct and equally hott.

[Codek]

Oh and by the by, you can spell mean't as meant. Both are equally correct and equally hott.

Mean't is the original and correct way to spell it, and Meant is a derivative, because the spelling mistake happened so often. A testimony to the idiots of this world.

[Jacob]

'Meant' looks better anyway.