Another Shooting

[OANST]

Except Switzerland.

You're not wrong, but Switzerland has a much less violent culture than America does.

[mr.odd]

And again, reports are saying his mother worked at the school.

She did in fact work at the school. But she wasn't at the school when he did the shootings. News saying he killed her before at their house and then he went to the school.

[Bullet Magnet]

Can someone explain to me why hollow point and incendiary rounds are legal in the US? I brought it up with a gun goon earlier and he stopped talking to me. These are designed to cause the maximum amount of damage and make medical intervention useless. What defensive application do they have? Is it not enough to shoot a home invader, you have to shred his organs and incinerate his bowels too?

[OANST]

Because American gun culture is much more interested in retribution than it is in defense.

[Sekto Springs]

Gun distribution is very slipshod in the US. Just last week I saw an ad listing for a used assault rifle in the paper for about 75 bucks. There was no mention of background checks or proper licensing.

[Bullet Magnet]

Have you noticed how the people who are so supportive of gun culture are also vehemently opposed to free healthcare?

[Sekto Springs]

They want to make sure their prey stays dead.

[OANST]

Have you noticed how the people who are so supportive of gun culture are also vehemently opposed to free healthcare?

That's an interesting point, actually. I don't know exactly what it means, but I honestly think someone smarter than me should do a study exploring that.

[STM]

Good first step would be to outlaw pistols. Make it harder to conceal weapons. It's very black and white to me as a Briton because we have the lowest rate of gun crime in the world according to some statistics which I can't be bothered to find but will do if someone can't find them themselves. We have shotguns, semi-auto and bolt action rifles, flintlock rifles and pistols as well as an assortment of bows yet gun crime is relatively rare. Raoul Moat(e?)s for instance, was a really shocking crime because it was so unusual.

[Bullet Magnet]

It does mean that it's easier to get an automatic weapon than psychiatric help.

[Havoc]

I once had a debate with a gun supporter and brought up the issue that when the 'right to bear arms' law was written, it didn't take into account the evolution of weapons. At the time of writing the only firearms one could get were single shot pistols, rifles and cannons. I don't believe for a second that the founding fathers ever envisioned people walking the streets with weapons that can fire over 100 rounds per minute.

The law was meant to ensure that citizens have weapons to overthrow a corrupt government so that opression like from the British would never happen again.

Instead weapons are used for just about everything today, except what they were originally meant for. One could wonder how much use that law is today since any sort of rebellion would probably be seen as an act of terrorism or something.

[Sekto Springs]

Relevant.

[Nate]

You're not wrong, but Switzerland has a much less violent culture than America does.

Still one of the highest murder rates in the world, though. And I read somewhere that they've been restricting gun ownership significantly in the last few years.


I thought that this was a good point. It's something my brother in law wrote on Facebook, linking to an article written by Australia's (Conservative) former prime minister.

After Australia experienced the terrible Port Arthur gun massacre in 1996, the government banned most of the guns in this country. The gun lobby was very upset, but it ultimately lost the battle. These national gun laws have proven beneficial. Research published in 2010 in the American Journal of Law and Economics found that firearm homicides, in Australia, dropped 59 per cent between 1995 and 2006. Researchers at Harvard University in 2011 revealed that in the 18 years prior to the 1996 Australian laws, there were 13 gun massacres (four or more fatalities) in Australia, resulting in 102 deaths. There have been none in that category since the Port Arthur laws.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...#ixzz2F3n19OQL


And then there's this:

[Mr. Bungle]

I just hope that this will open congress' eyes and make them realize that guns and the control of such should not be taken lightly.

[mr.odd]

It won't. It least not for hardcore conservatives.

[Mr. Bungle]

Which is quite shameful, really. I don't know an awful lot about American politics, but I do know the Conservatives are the ones who are more pro-gun control (at least, from what I've heard), and they aren't in power at the moment.

That said, most of the members of the congress may be conservatives, and I can't see good ol' MURICA giving up its guns anytime soon. Saddening, really.

[Sekto Springs]

You've got it backwards. Conservatives are about as pro-gun control as they are pro-choice.

They are loyal to the second amendment, which is a flaccid front at best, as they have no problem sidestepping the constitution on other issues.

[Havoc]

Thing is, you can't take away people's guns without practically burning the constitution on live TV. That piece of paper is a promise of American rights that would never ever be taken away. Removing rights from a document like that makes the entire document useless.

[AlexFili]

Allow me to pose the question, does the publicity of incidents like these make others more or less likely to commit the same crime? I mean these kind of events are seeming to happen on a quarterly basis, wouldn't hearing about an event where so many children were killed deter someone else from doing the same? (maybe I'm reading into this too much)

I don't know, maybe the kind of people that carry out these incidents aren't phased by what happened, or maybe they just get into a state of mind where nothing matters. How someone can take so many lives, let alone the lives of children is beyond what I can understand. This whole event just leaves me shocked.

[Nate]

Allow me to pose the question, does the publicity of incidents like these make others more or less likely to commit the same crime?

More likely. Much more likely. Insofar as I've observed, they seem to come in waves. There will be an extended lull between massacres (for instance, there was a several year lull after 9/11), then after one happens a whole bunch follow in close succession.

[Havoc]

As far as I heard, there were two other shootings on the same day as this one. One in a Las Vegas hotel where a guy shot his wife or something. And another guy opening fire in a hospital.

[Nepsotic]

This might sound cynical, so I'll pose it as a question instead of a statement. Is there anyone else who actually feels little emotion about this? I find myself feeling animosity towards the killer of course, but no heart throbbing sadness or bitter tears. This sort of thing is reported upon so regularly in the news I think I've become desensitised to hearing about it. That being said, I haven't seen any footage or listened to any eye-witness accounts which I imagine is a whole other ball game.

It's bad, sure. It's horrible, but millions of kids die everyday, and nobody bats an eyelid. Only when something like this happens people give a shit, it's really strange and I can't fully explain what I'm trying to say. It's not because of slack gun-control, because even if you make firearms illegal that won't stop people, it's not like they go "Oh, guns are illegal here" "Aw, man, let's go...".

It isn't hard to get your hands on this stuff nowadays.

[Havoc]

To be honest, I wouldn't know where to start if I were to need a handgun right now. People always make it sound easy, but when it's actually illegal to sell guns without a license, let alone own them, it becomes pretty hard to find a weapons dealer who isn't an undercover cop.

[Nepsotic]

Not when you know where to look.

[Havoc]

Well I dunno what it's like in the UK but we don't have weapons dealers on every street corner. I would have no idea where to find one in this country, or how to get in touch with one. You can't exactly go on the internet and post a request for illegal firearms. Of course there is TOR, but that's no more reliable than a random guy in street claiming he can get you weapons if you just pay him 1000 bucks up front.

[Wings of Fire]

Not when you know where to look.

Said with all the life experience and criminal savvy of a fourteen year old.

[Nepsotic]

You can get anything you want these days, if you're willing to give out blowjobs. That, I don't have experience with. But you get my point.

[Vyrien]

I agree in that the sort of person to solicit a fourteen year old for blowjobs may not be the most law-abiding of citizens.

Joking aside, I get your point and it is horrifying, the worst thing is that there isn't all that much anyone can do about it.

[Wings of Fire]

I agree in that the sort of person to solicit a fourteen year old for blowjobs may not be the most law-abiding of citizens.

Joking aside, I get your point and it is horrifying, the worst thing is that there isn't all that much anyone can do about it.

Well seeing as gun crime in the UK is pretty much nonexistent I personally don't see his point and think that everything that could be done about it is being done.

[Vyrien]

I thought he was talking hypothetically about America rather than the UK.