Killing for curiousity: What makes a monster?

[Sekto Springs]

what's the population of deer these days?

Roughly 1,500,000 in Pennsylvania alone.
What about elephant culling, Havoc? Whats your standpoint on that?

[T-nex]

So just because you're not performing a mass animal genocide it makes it okay to just kill one? Just because you mutter a short 'With all due respect' before you pull the trigger it suddenly makes it different? I'm sorry but that's major bullshit.

You're using all the parts? So instead of going to the store and buy your meat there you insist on killing just one more animal for the heck of it. Yes we need to kill to live, that's why we have slaughterhouses in the first place. We don't need jackasses like you who think they can do a better job by going out hunting their own meat and wasting half of it. I don't care if you reuse every single part, it doesn't make it right. Following that logic I could shoot you in the face and as long as I sell your flesh at some WWII style butcher shop and use your bones for my Halloween decoration next year, I am totally justified in killing you because I did it with respect, right? Heck, killing humans would probably be more okay then killing animals, we're in the billions, what's the population of deer these days?

Don't try to act as if hunting innocent animals is doing something good for the planet. I have not a single ounce of respect for hunters who think they are 'all that' because they are able to carry a powerful gun into a forest. I'd like to see you try and kill a deer with your bare hands, make it a fair fight as long as you insist on hunting your own meat. I put 200 dollars on the deer.

You're being rather aggressive...

Anyway if you eat meat you have no right in hating hunters. None at all. Just because you don't hunt yourself, you still support the animal-killing that happens in this world...

And what? Are slaughterhouse animals less entitled to live than free animals? You're a hypocrite.

Anyway I don't really mind hunting as long as the whole animal is put to use or if the person needs to hunt for food.
I mean, I don't see a difference between buying meat and hunting meat. It all ends up the same way: in someone's stomach.

Also animals are not equal to humans. I have humans that I love.. I loved my kitty but he's gone now.
But I do hate people who kill animals for the sake of it, and just leave the animals to rot. I also hate people who hunt endangered animals, or animals in general that there aren't so many of.

you mustn't forget that we're humans and we are predators. We've hunted ever since we set foot on this planet, and I don't see why people get so worked up over it.

... Just don't hunt other predators! There' no friggin need for that.

[Sekto Springs]

If animals weren't meant to be hunted they wouldn't be made out of food.

[Munch's Master]

I'm surprised at the use of the "2 wrongs make a right" argument by the hunters- that killing their predators justified killing the herbivores.

My problem isn't so much with the actual hunting as with the thought behind it. It's barely ever out of respect or out of population control. Maybe it is with you but I'd wager you're in a very small minority there.

I'm to saying all slaughterhouse employees hate the job, nor am I saying slaughterhouses are humane (I've seen plenty of videos myself) but as MA testified the ones he knows do. Plus, it's not exactly easy to quit and get another job in the current social climate. Nor will it be with the overpopulation issues.

I wish to goodness that I could become a vegetarian but I like the taste of meat too much, regrettably. The killing of the animal bothers me a bit, but not as much as the method or motive. Hunters nearly never kill with the animal's intentions at heart. Slaughterhouses are rarely humane but hunting isn't always- traps for one thing, the fact that 1 shot doesn't always kill but instead severely injures for another. I can understand the hunting for food argument but as Havoc says- if you need the food just buy it from a store. If you can't afford the food then fair enough- but if you can't afford food but can afford a gun and bulelts something's sure gone screwy down the line.

I don't exactly agree with the other stuff Havoc said, but I will say this- we value human life above other lives because its our fellow species. There's humans who are the utter scum of the earth that we'd still put ahead of any animal. Am I saying every animal's life is equal to every human's life? No. Most humans, most people are decent. Most people's lives are more valuable than animal lives. But I wouldn't say every human.

[Seikyo Jack]

So just because you're not performing a mass animal genocide it makes it okay to just kill one? Just because you mutter a short 'With all due respect' before you pull the trigger it suddenly makes it different? I'm sorry but that's major bullshit.

You're using all the parts? So instead of going to the store and buy your meat there you insist on killing just one more animal for the heck of it. Yes we need to kill to live, that's why we have slaughterhouses in the first place. We don't need jackasses like you who think they can do a better job by going out hunting their own meat and wasting half of it. I don't care if you reuse every single part, it doesn't make it right. Following that logic I could shoot you in the face and as long as I sell your flesh at some WWII style butcher shop and use your bones for my Halloween decoration next year, I am totally justified in killing you because I did it with respect, right? Heck, killing humans would probably be more okay then killing animals, we're in the billions, what's the population of deer these days?

Don't try to act as if hunting innocent animals is doing something good for the planet. I have not a single ounce of respect for hunters who think they are 'all that' because they are able to carry a powerful gun into a forest. I'd like to see you try and kill a deer with your bare hands, make it a fair fight as long as you insist on hunting your own meat. I put 200 dollars on the deer.

Very aggressive, I dunno what's your problem matey but you can't possibly make everyone believe you're more right than any others, I simply gave my opinion. You don't like it? then you don't have to believe, but don't start calling me names.

I'm not saying hunting is good for the animal population just because I can carry a gun in the forest, I'm saying it because it's true. Predators aren't the only danger herbivores have to face, they can be dangerous to themselves, by depleting their food ressources. And they wouldn't notice they made their food become scarce. You obviously never hunted in your life so you think each time I went hunting, I had a big grin in my face, wishing a painful death to the deer in front of me. Well, for your information, that wasn't the case, I stayed stoic, aimed and gave it a quick death (it was a about 25 feet from me when it fell, he suffered for....5 seconds....). I think that's the best respect you can give to your prey: killing it in the less painful way as possible.

And I think hunting following the rules is some kind of respect, since you're basically killing only one or two a year. Wanna know what's worse than hunters? Poachers. why? Not only the kill animals, but they do it commercially, out of the laws of hunting. So yeah, I do think I have more respect for the animals even though I killed a deer. And the fun was not in the killing but in seeing it in its natural habitat with my own two eyes, something hunter-haters will never see (they'll see deers in a zoo or in Pennsylvania, but not in the forest).

I also buy meat in the grocery store, not like I got each week to get a few deers to have enough food for the week, I may be in Canada, doesn't mean in live in a shack in the woods. At the times I went hunting, I went for the fun of seeing animals in the wilderness, I didn't give a damn wether I killed one or not. If I got one, well, great, more food to stay healthy , if not, well at least I saw one.

And if I tried to go bare-handed, well, now I'm the one having no chance. Why don't you try it yourself if you think it's so fair? Anyway, hunting is a bit about strategy. you find a good spot, put some bait, and get a high position. you can hunt on the ground, too, it just requires more stealth (I've done that once).

I do get it that if you miss your shot, you might injure the animal, without killing it. that's what training is for, I never went hunting without practicing for a few days. I don't use traps, either, because I don't know shit about traps and like it has been said, it's just more painful for the prey. And I still think we're helping nature...a bit. I wouldn't mind be called a jackass if in every hunt I killed females and predators (the females could have babies waiting somewhere, who would die without her and predators are there to regulate the population), but I hunted only for bucks and now I'e stopped hunting althogetter but it still annoys me to see people calling hunters "assassins" and "heartless killers". Get a grip, hunting is not about quenching my taste for blood, it's about having some contact with nature and sometimes, coming back with more food is about the only motivation for that. It's just not the same as only buying packs of steak in the grocery, but hunter-haters will never understand that.


I'd simply say that if you eat meat there's two things you can do: Either leave the hunters alone or stop eating meat. Because if hunters are assassins, slaughterhouses employees are torturers. Maybe not all slaughterhouses are inhumane but still, the animals have the time to see what's gonna cause their death (even though they might not realise what those machines are), whereas the animals in the wild don't realise anything unless the bullet pierce their lungs. at least they are not anticipating their end, they don't get scared by whatever is in front of them and looks dangerous.

I hope this won't become a flamewar. If you hate hunters, Havoc, good for you, but don't start insulting anyone who thinks hunting is okay just because you think only your opinion is right.

[OANST]

I only read the first paragraph, but I'll tell you this: It's Havoc. He does that. You get used to it.

[MA]

okay then Seikyo Jack, you say that you're a hunter. i used to be a hunter too, but not any more, so i can relate. but i disagree with you entirely. its odd because most of what you are saying isn't even true or doesn't make sense.

also, i don't want a load of shit, so if you don't want to know how animals die in various ways, don't read on.

i'm just going to point out all the things you failed to mention and don't actually seem to know about;

The difference is simple: Animals in the wilderness have more chance to survive than animals in a slaughterhouse, since deers for example, are in their natural territory and you gotta have a good aim. And chances are you'll miss and the deer can go away.

don't forget the, lets face it, pretty risky chance that you can miss your intended aim on the target and shoot it somewhere were it will escape, then slowly die. like the stomach? also, hunters are taught to aim for the easiest spot on their 'prey' that will most likely incapacitate the animal, therefore it is not always humane, depending on what animal you are hunting. and it goes without saying that it is also taught to aim for the largest part of certain animals if it is in the distance to avoid missing, going with the theory that if you injure it, it will be easier to track and kill.

on the other hand, the Knackerman will often kill the animal there and then on the spot at the farm it is from, using either a bolt gun, designed for culling farm livestock like Equine, Bovine, etc, or a 12 bore (at least) shotgun. i'm not going into the details unless you want me to, but the technique they use is more or less guaranteed to successfully cull the animal painlessly, quickly, humanely and efficiently. and if they use a shotgun they don't stand 10 foot away and aim, so there is no chance of missing.

but i say 'more or less guaranteed' because it would be foolish to say that it has a 100% cull success rate. now this is not due to the equipment used or the competence of the staff, but more to do with the animal suddenly moving and other small things. plus farm animals are usually docile, what with being bred in farms their whole lives. depends on the situation.

and thats just reminded me; Knackermen are not hired into this line of work unless they have owned a gun of their specification for a certain amount of time, have a spotless police record (seeing as they are waving a gun around in, what's essentially, a work place) and are a certain age. so no 'gung-ho' kids are going to be driving around with weapons doing the job. however, this is not the case with hunting.

in England you have to go through a lot of official stuff with the police, and need to put up with visits and so on. i don't know the deal where you live, but i don't believe you need to have so many years experience with firearms and be about 25-30 years old to be able to hunt. therefore it all depends on the hunter whether the animal will die humanely or not, if at all.

that was all to say; don't say that Slaughterhouses and the employees are not more humane than hunters out in the field, because i guarantee you, hunters fuck up a lot more in the long run than the former.

It happened once, the first one I ever shot in my life: The bullet scratched it and it got away. How could a slaughterhouse animal do that? The place is so much controlled (normal, I know, since they are made to provide food), the animals don't have a single chance to get away alive.

come on, you haven't really got a decent argument there. Slaughterhouses are a controlled environment where things are kept as calm as possible, for the employee's safety mainly. animals can sense when you are nervous, aggravated, calm, therefore will react appropriately. you dont want a 1500 kilo bull kicking off in a slaughterhouse with nothing but gates and such. it'll just smash through them. that should be enough excuse to disregard this rumour that slaughterhouses are manic bloodbaths where men run around with meat cleavers hacking away in a frenzy.

i acknowledge that there are slaughterhouses that are less humane and controlled as they are meant to be, and i'm afraid that's how it goes sometimes, which is a shitty excuse and is wrong. you'll always have some inspector that'll accept a few hundred quid so he can 'not see' what's really going on and report the place as being fine. then again you will always get the kind that wont accept such bribes, and do the right thing. but its almost the same thing with hunters not doing the correct procedures, apart from it can be made worse if they aren't competent, don't have the correct firearm/ammunition/scope for the selected animal, etc. the list is endless.

And what makes you believe slaughterhouse employees have remorse and reluctance?

do you think i'm lying?

If they hate killing animals so much, what's stopping them from getting another job?

wake up.

Maybe there's reluctant/remorseful people in slaughterhouses, but surely there's not that much, since I don't remember having witnessed lacks of processed meat because of a lack of employees.

since when do people feeling reluctant/remorseful about their job become totally incapacitated by it? only if it develops into something more serious or they quit their job will this make a 'lack of processed meat'. it may make them slightly less efficient, but that's beside the point.

And I think if there wasn,t a single hunter in the whole world, that would be unrespectful to the animals, as said, we already depleted the natural predators and now the herbivores could eventually deplete the food ressources and starve.

so in other words, we killed all the predators so its alright to kill the herbivores now as they have no natural predators any more? twisted logic but, i suppose.

And I'm pretty sure starving is more painful than a bullet through the lungs. Maybe if we stayed primitive beings who only hate plant food and still lived in caves, then yeah, there wouldn't have to be hunters and slaughterhouses. But that's not our current reality.

you're basing this whole 'they will starve if we don't kill them' theory on one very narrow time line you just came out with. other things would and could happen. plus, don't try to cover up the fact that its just to protect crops (which ironically means that you are actually killing them so they can't eat, not so they can) and prevent being overrun.

And I think anyone who would find hunters despicable should just stop eating meat althogetter, if they haven't already did. Slaughterhouses aren't better than hunting. I think one thing that could be respect for animals is, if you have to kill it, give it a quick, painless death

yeah. that's what Slaughterhouses do. but it doesn't help having the word 'slaughter' at the beginning, as it puts gruesome and violent pictures in your mind.

because I saw videos of things that happen in slaughterhouses and believe me, I think my bullet through the lungs is not that bad. And don't ask for a link, I don't remeber where I saw this and it's too disgusting anyway.

thanks for backing that up! oh, and do you think that happens legally? not in England, anyway. i don't know how it is in other countries. it most certainly does not happen in every Slaughterhouse.

i just remembered that this was about a man killing a baboon, as he was curious to feel what it would be like to kill a human.

shit.

EDIT:

Because if hunters are assassins, slaughterhouses employees are torturers.

oh god this pisses me off.

do you work on a farm? do you work in a slaughterhouse? have you got to know the employees of a slaughterhouse?

it worries me that people as close-minded as you are carrying guns.

[Bullet Magnet]

It is an ambition of mine to kill at least one animal that I intend to eat. Not out of any love of killing animals, you understand, but because I feel the need to intimately experience that part of the natural world if I want to eat meat. I don't expect it to be easy, but if I can't do it than I have no business eating them.

Insect don't count.

[MA]

just swoop down and snatch a field mouse, BM.

i thought you'd always been doing that.

[Seikyo Jack]

Well, I'm simply saying my opinion. I'm also sick of hearing shit about hunters.

As for me, I learned to aim at the lungs, it's the best balance between chance of hitting vs pain to the animal. Sure, I could end it quickly with a shot in the head. I could miss easily (even more than if I had aimed at the lungs) and maybe the deer would live with a missing eye for the rest of its life. Any hunter who doesn't shake some rust before hunting season is more likely to miss and thus, is a douche for not caring wether or not he could injure or maybe even cripple and animal forever.

In Quebec, everything related to hunting and firearms is watched and all. You have to follow a class on firearm security and you have to ask for a permit to posess and buy firearms. Of course, there will always be idiots breaking laws, it's impossible to have a perfect system, but most hunters (those I know, at least) will follow the rules and also practice before a hunt, so they won't injure an animal for nothing.

what I meant with the controlled environment and all is that, the animal can see death coming and cannot escape it. A bull is in the slaughterhouse. What then? Death assured.
In the forest, the deer doesn't have fences preventing it from escaping from whatever danger there is. there,s a difference between killing an animal in a controlled environment and killing one in its natural territory.

I keep my point about slaughterhouse employees getting another job. It's not easy getting another one but not impossible. I know that if I was working in a place I don't like and prevents me from doing my work well, I wouldn't hesitate quitting.

About the predator killing. Twisted logic? I don't see anything twisted in replacing carnivores that we killed. The balance gotta be kept somehow and slaughterhouses only takes cows and bulls, I never heard of a slaughterhouse taking deers and elks.

In my mind, I don,t hunt to protect crop. It's to be in nature and when killing a deer, it's regulating the population. In my opinion, it,s better than letting animals deplete their food ressources and having them looking in your trashcan each morning.

So, I guess in most slaughterhouses they do kill painlessly. I'm basing myself on a video I saw, I do have to admit I never visited one of these places and probably got fooled by a video, so I'm not gonna argue on this one.

You're right, I'm young and don't have as much hunting experience as my father have and probably never will, since I stopped for respect to my girlfriend. I just go with what I think is logical. I probably would hate hunters too, if I didn't eat meat but I wouldn't harass them like hell. I especially hated the way Havoc brought me his point. I understand he doesn't like hunting and all but does that mean it justifies insulting people? And so, he have no respect for hunters. So I guess each time I'll try to get my point he'll start insulting me because I think hunting is right? Yeah, great.

And yeah, I know the topic was about some douche shooting a baboon illegally and just for the fun of doing it like in the movies. I just find it normal that it would bring up stuff about hunting, wethere or not it was me bringing it up. The article was about animal killing, so I wouldn't have been surprised if someone else said anything about hunting.

'Nyway, I'm not looking to prove anything to anyone, if you don't approve hunting, good for you, but don't start calling us jackasses or heartless bastards. Death is a part of nature and the humans always hunted. the only thing that makes people say killing is wrong nowadays is because they can simply buy a steak in a grocery and not have to kill their own food source. Well, got news for these people: buying meat is not better than killing it. :P


EDIT: Bullet, I like your way of thinking.

[Bullet Magnet]

just swoop down and snatch a field mouse, BM.

i thought you'd always been doing that.

The only mice I eat are the ones that wander freely into my home. I generally leave them to the baseline owls.

[OANST]

I think that you may need to examine your reasons for doing it instead of writing three pages about why it's humane, or how the animals in the slaughterhouse have it worse. Why do you do it? Do you honestly expect us to believe that you wake up with a great fear in your heart that the deer are going to starve to death? I don't buy it. And if it's just about getting your nature fix, bring a camera and shoot them with that.

Bottom line: It gives a rush. There is a thrill involved with the hunt. Whether you use all of the meat, respect the animal, or do it carefully is all besides the point. It's also beside the point to call those that eat meat but don't hunt hypocrites. You don't have to kill. Your life doesn't depend on it. And yet you do.

Edit: To point out that this is directed at Jack. Not BM.

[MA]

what I meant with the controlled environment and all is that, the animal can see death coming and cannot escape it. A bull is in the slaughterhouse. What then? Death assured.

a large majority of the animals are culled on sight at their original location, and are then taken to the Slaughterhouse for meat preparation. only the 'big business' Slaughterhouses take in livestock from businesses, still alive. not all animals are killed in the Slaughterhouse.

I keep my point about slaughterhouse employees getting another job. It's not easy getting another one but not impossible. I know that if I was working in a place I don't like and prevents me from doing my work well, I wouldn't hesitate quitting.

you know, you really have to look a bit further into it. i'll bring up the classic and say if you had a family to feed, you wouldn't quit your job just because you didn't like it. some people wouldn't even quit if the job was affecting them mentally, especially during these times. see a new job opening and fucking go for it, that's what its like these days.

About the predator killing. Twisted logic? I don't see anything twisted in replacing carnivores that we killed.

i meant that its pretty ironic that we killed the predators, and are now killing the prey due to the fact we killed their predators. and that makes it alright? well it'll have to, because we fucked up.

The balance gotta be kept somehow and slaughterhouses only takes cows and bulls, I never heard of a slaughterhouse taking deers and elks.

look, i'm not discussing this with you by pulling random bullshit out the air alongside hearsay, i have experience in it. i can't believe you think that. Slaughterhouses can take cattle, horses, sheep, pigs, even foul. please read up on what you're talking about or something, because that was not true.

So, I guess in most slaughterhouses they do kill painlessly. I'm basing myself on a video I saw, I do have to admit I never visited one of these places and probably got fooled by a video, so I'm not gonna argue on this one.

i once saw a violent video of some reckless hunter, but i don't base all my evidence on this.

I probably would hate hunters too, if I didn't eat meat but I wouldn't harass them like hell.

i don't hate hunters. some may, but i don't. i was arguing the point that it is extremely unfair to lump all good and bad Slaughterhouses together, along with their employees, and call them 'torturers'.

I especially hated the way Havoc brought me his point. I understand he doesn't like hunting and all but does that mean it justifies insulting people

ignore him. he's like the Comet Halley, by means of he makes a valid, stable and airtight argument without looking a bit daft once in a blue moon.

[Seikyo Jack]

Of course there is the thrill.

But saying hunters are inhumane monsters is just stupid in my opinion, when said by someone who doesn't have problem eating meat.
I don't wake up worrying about the animals starving, it's not like my life depends on it, I personnally think each time I went hunting, it was a small contribution to regulate the animals.


No, I don't have to kill for meat. But animals still gotta die to feed humans. Even if I never killed an animal in my life, somebody else killed the animals my packaged steak comes from. Of course, there's the option to only eat plant food but, well, mankind has been eating meat for too long to suddenly stop like that.

As I said, we're so much in that civilization thing that often, the only way to motivate someone to go in the woods is to go hunting, having something to add to your food stock once you're out. I sometimes go in the little place nearby to walk with my girlfriend, but I get sick of it quick, primarily because it's not a natural trail and it doesn't look that natural to me, with it being placed between a railroad and a factory.

I'll compensate for hunting by camping, if the budget allows us next summer.

As I say: Don't like hunting? Fine, but stop stepping on every hunter you meet's balls because you think they're wrong and your right. I think that vegetarian people are just strange ,eating only salads and having barely any protein, yet I don't go and call them weaklings for not eating stuff that has more protein. So, yeah, don't want me to call hunter-haters hypocrites? They might as well stop calling hunters jackasses.

And I'm gonna quote Havoc on that one.

"We don't need jackasses like you who think they can do a better job by going out hunting their own meat and wasting half of it!"

If I was a frickin' admin, this guy would have got a warning for that, because no matter what belief you might have, it doesn't justify acting like a dick.

[Wings of Fire]

You're probably going to get a lot worse than that in your time here, grow some balls.

Also I agree with OANST on this one.

[OANST]

I personnally think each time I went hunting, it was a small contribution to regulate the animals.

This is called making yourself feel better. Look, if you want to hunt, then hunt. I just don't want you to convince yourself that you are doing it for altruistic reasons. You aren't. You're doing it because it's fun. And while I think that's fucked up, it's your prerogative.

[Seikyo Jack]

You're probably going to get a lot worse than that in your time here, grow some balls.

I certainly hope I don't get worse, as I don't like discussing with uncivilized people who can only insult. And growing balls have nothing to do with that, it's a matter of respect and insults should never have their place on any serious discussion.

[OANST]

Wait. You aren't the new Patrick Vykkerz, are you? Conservative viewpoint.... Complains about trolls.... YOU ARE!

[Seikyo Jack]

Wait. You aren't the new Patrick Vykkerz, are you? Conservative viewpoint.... Complains about trolls.... YOU ARE!

Well, no I'm not, whoever that is. But I thought anyone who have been on a few forums know that respect has as much its place on a forum than in real life. Anyway, I'm getting off-topic here, but no matter how other people are used to getting responses like the one Havoc posted at me, I won't accept it "for the sake of growing balls".

[OANST]

Oh, I'm just funnin' ya'. But yeah, we all fear the day that PV, or his equivalent returns. He was the most evil cunt that we have ever had to deal with. We drove him off, eventually.

[Wings of Fire]

I'm not saying that Havoc really had any right to be rude to you, I'm just saying that it's an almost certainty that one day you will piss someone off, and they will not express it in a terribly chivalric fashion.

[OANST]

My recommendation: PUSH HARDER!

[Seikyo Jack]

We drove him off, eventually.

Only half-surprised, actually. If by that you mean people you get called "jackass" and what not eventually quit well I' m wondering if I gonna be here for long, since I never accept insults from anyone.

I'm not saying that Havoc really had any right to be rude to you, I'm just saying that it's an almost certainty that one day you will piss someone off, and they will not express it in a terribly chivalric fashion.

I guess so, but I certainly hope when that happens, the admins/moderators will do what they should do: tell them to cut it ou and give them a warning.

[OANST]

I guess so, but I certainly hope when that happens, the admins/moderators will do what they should do: tell them to cut it ou and give them a warning.

Bit of advice. The only thing that you will get from whining to the moderators when someone offends you, is the annoyance of the rest of the forum. If you dislike something someone said to you, tell them so, and move on. PV was famous for harping on the same comment 7 months after it was made. And we haaaated him. Also, telling the mods how to do their job is only going to earn you their enmity.

[Seikyo Jack]

Well when I'm on a forum, that's what I'm waiting of the staff: Do what they're supposed to do. I won't PM them each time someone's calling me names but I won't hesitate if they do so three or four post after.

[OddjobAbe]

They do their job well. They don't need telling. You are being a bit of a prick at the moment, be honest. There's something about you that I'm finding to be very obnoxious.

[Seikyo Jack]

They do their job well. They don't need telling. You are being a bit of a prick at the moment, be honest. There's something about you that I'm finding to be very obnoxious.

Because I don't like when people like Havoc being a moron with me? Too bad, that won't change. As I said, I won't PM like crazy each time I get insulted by people like Havoc but I don't expect to take too much of it either. I've been on a few english forums and saw a staff that, instead of telling "Okay, cut it out!", they were more in the likes of "Okay, you, go throw yourself in front of a car! You, slit your own throat! And you, go f*** yourself!". Nice way to resolve a conflict, yeah.

So yeah, that,s why I'm skeptical, right now. Haven't been here for long enough to judge, so I,m waiting to see how the community is, here.

Anyway, let's drop it, we're off-topic here.

[OddjobAbe]

You'll learn to ignore Havoc. There's being pissed off and then there's being melodramatic. You are being the latter.

As you wish to see how the community are with each other, how about not kicking up a shitstorm before you've judged us? I'm embarassed to have contributed to this petty argument.

[OANST]

Because I don't like when people like Havoc being a moron with me? Too bad, that won't change. As I said, I won't PM like crazy each time I get insulted by people like Havoc but I don't expect to take too much of it either. I've been on a few english forums and saw a staff that, instead of telling "Okay, cut it out!", they were more in the likes of "Okay, you, go throw yourself in front of a car! You, slit your own throat! And you, go f*** yourself!". Nice way to resolve a conflict, yeah.

So yeah, that,s why I'm skeptical, right now. Haven't been here for long enough to judge, so I,m waiting to see how the community is, here.

Anyway, let's drop it, we're off-topic here.

Our community is our community. We aren't going to change for you. And if you end up leaving, well, you'll just be one in a long line of noobs to do so. No skin off our back.

At any rate, pm's are fine. I'm referring to those who whine about moderator intervention in the middle of a thread. It's annoying. So, don't do it.

[Seikyo Jack]

Fine then, I won't do it. And I'd gladly ask you to not call me a noob, since it's not the first forum I've been on.

I'm not melodramatic. Simply, I can't take shit like Havoc told me and I don't want that kind of thing to happen again. If expressing my beliefs will get me stuff like he threw at me then why do I bother posting?