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  #31  
02-25-2005, 02:58 PM
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i highly doubt that stranger is a girl. like what everyone said about his characteristics but there is 2 reason i thought of that HE is not a she.one, oddworld inhabitants rarely have female characters cuz strangers wrath is the only game ive seen with females like the grunts and clakerz but there arent many.and two, how many badass bounty hunting female characters(except samus arun from metriod,shes the only one i know of )are there
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  #32  
02-25-2005, 06:56 PM
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that's a uh....yeah..a um.....I'm sorry but now I'm just riddled with disturbing images. I doubt that Strangers a female....if he is...that would be on hell of a twist!
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  #33  
02-25-2005, 08:11 PM
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Volsung, you are reaching. This is a game. If Lorne wanted Steef to be a girl they would have given him at least a few female personality traits. And yes, it would be really silly/creepy if a character that talks like a guy, looks like a guy, dresses like a guy, and acts like a guy, turns out to be female. The character would loose a lot of dignity and credibility.

"The character would loose a lot of dignity and credibility"

Whoa, dude , Stranger does what Stranger does, how could gender have any bearing on dignity and credibility ? That`s some rather narrow thinking there.
Your right this is a game, a FANTASY game. Therefor the developers
can ,and should, do anything they want. They are not bound by laws of Reason or Physics, that would make for some dull game play. Keep in mind this is ODDWORLD, not yourworld.
Where the Hell is everyones imaginations, is Volsung and Esus the only ones that can think outside the box?

[ Boom.... Bang..... falls off soapbox ]
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  #34  
02-25-2005, 09:26 PM
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I don't think a female steef would approach Stranger's identity quandry the same way.

No matter how you slice it, male and female characters are different. If Stranger is female I would have to chalk it up to a combination of incredibly bad shock'em writing and poor observation skills.
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  #35  
02-25-2005, 09:52 PM
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BTW, my masculinity isn't threatened by Stranger being female, but my *interest* in Stranger certainly is. Oddworld better keep the hairy steef-cake male.
LOL

I've never heard "hairy steef-cake" before Nice termonologies
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  #36  
02-26-2005, 12:45 AM
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The theory is untouchable as long as everything that points to Stranger being male is potentially wrong. This is not saying anything good about the theory. So really, why debate such a thing? If Stranger's voice, demeanor, and title as a 'he' is not good enough evidence, then you're most likely wasting your time. I could just say he's an alien or ghost, and deny all the evidence to the contrary because it's Oddworld. Yeah, it's fun to have ironic twists and stuff, but there's alot to be said for face value.

Stranger's a dude.
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  #37  
02-26-2005, 05:21 AM
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"The character would loose a lot of dignity and credibility"

Whoa, dude , Stranger does what Stranger does, how could gender have any bearing on dignity and credibility ? That`s some rather narrow thinking there.
Your right this is a game, a FANTASY game. Therefor the developers
can ,and should, do anything they want. They are not bound by laws of Reason or Physics, that would make for some dull game play. Keep in mind this is ODDWORLD, not yourworld.
Where the Hell is everyones imaginations, is Volsung the only one that can think outside the box?

[ Boom.... Bang..... falls off soapbox ]
The character would be completely unbeleivable and cheesy if he were to suddenly become a female. If they shocked us like this, they would have to follow it up with Steef acting differently then we saw in the previous game.
It would be more than pointless if it was just a change in title, but it would also be inconsistent if they did alter his behavior. It's not that I don't have imagination, it's just that I have common sense. If there was anything that hinted at him being female, I might be more inclined to think differently, but there isn't.
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  #38  
02-26-2005, 04:45 PM
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I just assumed that since he was having an operation to make him less Steef-like in the game, that he just had Doc remove his horns in a previous operation. Besides that since the game creator called him a he, that is all the proof I need.
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  #39  
03-11-2005, 12:02 AM
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Also, doesn't Stranger have... facial hair? Hell- if he were female, he be one ugulee freak.

Reasons:

1. His voice. This is stupid. I'd like to think that Stranger was male, for if he was female, that would be quite shocking. Imagine jo'momma (Not the boss...), talking to you like Stranger. "Where can I find, the nearest kitchen?". It just doens't make sense.

:
"The character would loose a lot of dignity and credibility"

Whoa, dude , Stranger does what Stranger does, how could gender have any bearing on dignity and credibility ? That`s some rather narrow thinking there.
Your right this is a game, a FANTASY game. Therefor the developers
can ,and should, do anything they want. They are not bound by laws of Reason or Physics, that would make for some dull game play. Keep in mind this is ODDWORLD, not yourworld.
Where the Hell is everyones imaginations, is Volsung and Esus the only ones that can think outside the box?
Everyone can easily think outsdie the box. Many people just find this terribley stupid/ humorous. I, for one, would find it interesting for OWI to explore different sexes. I mean, if he/it were female, he/it would have to be slightly bi-genderal (Whassa word...). Stranger would lose alot of diginity due to we couldn't see him/it the same way again. OWI would try to explore his gender, and they really shouldn't. We shouldn't relate to him- get to know him- he's a stranger. He is supposed to be shrouded in mystery.

2. Look at him. He'd have to be a pretty freakin' buff female. Just look at his gorilla arms. Freaky female, if so.

3. Beard, beard, beard, beard... If it was supposed to be slightly feminine, lose the beard, for Christs sake.

I would except it as female, but right now, all the evidence points towards Stranger being male. Gak.
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  #40  
03-11-2005, 08:20 PM
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Munch, Good points all.

i would agree with most all of your points ( except the Outside the BOX thing,
numerous psychological profiles indicate that a large percent of the population
can not or WILL NOT undertake this endevor on their own.It puts them outside thier comfort zone, very much like the reaction to this thread)
To be truthful this thread was a test of sorts. The results are not particularly
surprising considering the make up of this forum ; ie. 90 % + male, between the
ages of 13 and 18, with a tightly defined concept of gender stereotyping.
If you looks through the posts you will see a recurring theme, not only do the posters flatly reject Stranger as a female , they can not even embrace the
possibilty that Stranger is female.
What did suprise me was the lack of support from a certain group of members.
There seem to be a number of aspiring artists and story tellers on these forums,
arguably, these folks are considered to be the more creative members of society.
The process of creative thinking precludes the rejection of possibilties off hand,one is trying to open doors not close them. i thought the artisans might pick this up, but alas they too are stuck in the gender rut.

To me it`s really inconsequential what Stranger`s gender is, Stranger can run like hell, shoot like a Marine sniper, and seriously kick ass and take names.
Stranger is what Stranger is, no more no less, and gender be damned.

Except maybe that victory spit..... never saw a chick that could spit like that.
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  #41  
03-11-2005, 08:34 PM
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I'm pretty sure Stranger's a he. I have no evidence or anything like the rest of you, just a hunch. However, we do know that Leorne might make a sequal...and who knows what will/would be revealed.

:
3. Beard, beard, beard, beard...
Beard, beard, action beard....sorry...I couldn't resist.
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  #42  
03-11-2005, 09:41 PM
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I think Starnger's a boy, Since him having a deep voice, and a beard.
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  #43  
03-12-2005, 09:42 AM
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Yeah, the flippant and complete disregard of the possibility is what bothered me. But to be fair, Oddworld is based on earth, and it seems likely that their gender representations would be analagous to our own, (speaking specifically of the U.S.) So its easy to see that at the very least, Stranger was intended to be greeted as male. The physical distinctions are ambivalent, lending fairly equal weight to both theories, (since we don't know what female steef are like, or even if there actually are female steef)

Some forumers have suggested that Stranger would have to act more "feminine" if it were revealed he actually was female. I disagree. Stranger appears to have been raised in isolation, and as most gender-specific behaviours aren't genetic, the only guidelines he could have would be what best allowed him to survive. And if Stranger is anything, its a survivor.

But as Shell man said, the theory is based on a lack of information. Because we don't know anything about the different sexes of steef, we can assume that the only physical difference is sexual dimorphism, which in turn gives us free rein to postulate that Stranger is smaller because "he" is a "she."

There is some in-game evidence to the contrary though (besides gender specific connotations). At Beek's Opple farm, Stranger makes a sexual reference to the farmer's daughter. It's unlikely that OWI would make Stranger secretly female and secretly a lesbian. One could argue it was just a joke or whatnot, but I think that it more than settled it for me. If for no other reason than having a theory that cannot be disproven annoys me.
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  #44  
03-12-2005, 06:48 PM
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Aha! I have found evidence of Strangers gender... After playing through the entire game again. God- I'm stupidly persistant

Evidence:
Grubb 1: That Steef, man, he looks like he means business.
Grubb 2: Yeah! I bet he could crack a Wolvarks skull with meathooks like his!

How to obtain evidence (There are many other instances where Stranger is reffered to as 'he', but this is the most obvious I can remember off the top of my head):

After the boat missions, you go into a cutscene involving Grubbs. After the cutscene, do not get back into your boat. Just stay and listen to their conversations. After a while, the previous conversation will happen. They only seem to have 3 conversations in that location.

I will try to record this... And any other I can find. Time for teh supa micro fone!1

As for the complete dissmissal of the possibility of Stranger being female, I guess it is just people agree-ing with their own views, and no one elses. As I was trying to say, but due to my stupidity in checking my grammar, it wasn't exactly legible. I meant: I would accept Stranger to be female. And I said 'except'. Gak!
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  #45  
03-12-2005, 09:33 PM
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Oh Jesus.

Guys, this is just silly.

You can try and pull the whole "I'm an independent thinker, he COULD be a she" persona, but let's face it.

We all know he is and always will be a he.

Now stop it.
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  #46  
03-12-2005, 11:13 PM
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Yeah, the flippant and complete disregard of the possibility is what bothered me.
Yeah, because forced political correctness is always better than people trusting their own instincts.

Thanks for the 'guilt trip for creative people' thing.
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  #47  
03-13-2005, 07:42 AM
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KO, OK let`s put this to rest.

Anyone out there not familiar with the term "Devil`s Advocate" please check it out, this may make more sense if you do.

OF COURSE STRANGER IS A MALE
That was never the point of this thread !!!
It is so tiresome ( at least to me ) to read threads with subjects like:
how long is your hair?
what are you listening to ?
what do you look like ?
where do you live?
how tall is Stranger? for God sakes!!
The list goes on.
Don`t get me wrong, i understand this is how members get to know each other,
but none require any kind of thinking response.
So i thought maybe i could throw out something so outrageous as to spark some kind of debate. To this end there has been some success ( given the amount of time this post has been up vs. number of replies and viewes, it has been one of the most active lately) but not much debate.
The responses have been all over the place, from the kneejerk; " cause he sounds like one" to insightful examination of the evidence.
Hell ,have even uncoverd some neophyte closet chuvinist.

You all are right this is silly, and have PM some mods to ether close it or just make it vanish, kind`a like Mawk.
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Last edited by Voodoo Hand; 03-14-2005 at 02:01 PM.. : Remove condescending crap
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  #48  
03-13-2005, 07:59 AM
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I let the topic open, but if it turns out I shouldn't it will be immediatly closed

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  #49  
03-13-2005, 11:35 AM
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i havent read the entire thing, but with if the steefs with the huge teeth and horns are the females?
it is true that with some species, the females are more agressive.

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  #50  
03-13-2005, 06:29 PM
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i have learned my lesson, in the future i will only post threads that can be answered with the likes of LOL., me too, that`s stooped , etc.,etc.
To those who have had thier order of thing damaged , my apologies, it won`t happen again.

the old doctor
Wow, you could cut the pompous in that post with a knife.

Here's my take on the whole thing.

I'm a bit skeptical of people who think it's more "enlightened" to believe there are no innate differences between the genders. From my experience there definately are differences. And, guess what, older and wiser cultures then our own agree.

There seems to be two dominant ways our western culture approachs the fact that there are two sapient speicies on this planet who can breed together. The first is to deny any possibility for understanding between the sexes and the second is deny any differences.

The first is what we'd call the "chauvanistic" attitude. Men are men. Women are women. And never the twain shall meet.

The second is the "enlightened" or politically correct attitude.

Many people today think the second attitude is both fundementally different then the chauvanistic and *better*. I think it's more of the same.

It's the same attitude as that of a self-centred traveler encountering a new culture and thinking herself enlightened because she is so accepting of it... while all she's doing is *denying* all it's differences. Like the attitude of the traveller, the "enlightened" gender attitude resolves the fear of difference by denying it completely. This also is parrallel to the sex-phobic narcisist, who can't stand the thought that he is incomplete, that someone has something he does not, sex being the activity that makes this most blatant and unavoidable. If both sexes are the really the same, then they have nothing to give eachother, nothing that either one *wants* and, most tragically, nothing to teach eachother.

However there is a middle way to resolving this issue. It could be best expressed in the concept of yin-yang, or the jungian theory of the anima/animus. As there is a bit of the masculine in the femining yin, there is a bit of the feminine in the masculine yang. And in humans, according to Jung, a man has an anima, his feminine qualities, and a woman her animus.

The chauvanist tradition denies the existance of the anima/animus, and so does the "enlightened" tradition. Since, in order to have an anima you must first *be* male(thus have dominant male characteristics) likewise in order to have an animus you must first be female(thus have dominant female characteristics). Without acknowledging the distinction between male and female, there is no ability to acknowlege the similarities.

The chauvinist denies all similarity, and the p.c. adherent *forces* conformity by denying difference.

How does this apply to Stranger being male? Well, in my experience transexuals in our culture aggressively deny the qualities of the sex that they physically are, while embracing a dogmatic view of the sex they want to be. In other words, they are *not* balanced in terms of their gender. (This could be contrasted with transexuals in other cultures who are more balanced, often because they are provided with a sense of belonging and respect.)

Stranger *is*. His masculinity is intelligently balanced with a certain amount of femininity-- the necklace, the long hair, beads and the constant referance to him being "purdy" all lend him a subtle feminine quality. In other words, it isn't Stranger's masculinity that makes me think he's male. It's his femininity. Or more accurately, the balance of the two within him.

Also, once again, I don't think he would approach the problem of his identity the same way if he was female. It seems like identity is where men and women differ most. A woman has an inborn sense of identity, whereas men seem to develop one via their actions. This makes male characters more vulnerable to problems of identity, and more likely to take the kind of drastic action Stranger was willing to take.
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  #51  
03-13-2005, 07:32 PM
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Now that is what i call a thinking response.
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  #52  
03-13-2005, 08:58 PM
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I really hate it when somebody does something silly, and their excuse is that it was only a test to see the reaction...
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  #53  
03-13-2005, 09:02 PM
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i really hate it when someone makes a huge post and covers up my post so that no one will read it...
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  #54  
03-14-2005, 04:23 PM
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Have you the brain worms?!? Stranger just simply cannot be female. As stated many times by other forumers, his voice, personality, masculinity, etc just kind of says it all.
Although it is true we do not know anything about Steef physical features, and while it is also true that there are many things we do not know about him, I am thinking that Stranger being female is going a bit too far.

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  #55  
03-17-2005, 05:42 AM
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I think Stranger is a male, but i think there can be two reasons to why he has no horns
first would be that he is a young steff and his horns has grown out yet, second would be that he is an evoled steff, that would maybe explain why Secto refers the other steffs as his ancestors
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  #56  
03-17-2005, 05:55 AM
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First of all, it's "Steef." "Steff" is the name of a really bitchy girl at my school.
Second, let's get the facts straight. Evolution would take thousands of years. The Steef population was probably lowered faster than that, and all of the Steef on Sekto's wall have horns.

Evolution can't just happen. This isn't like Poke'mon, something doesn't just evolve whenever it wants or when its EXP grows to a certain point.

Stranger isn't "an evolved Steef." He's more likely just an adolescent.

Sorry to come down on you, but I hate it when people think that evolution is some instantaneous process. Your first theory was most likely correct.
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  #57  
03-17-2005, 07:23 AM
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sorry dont watch pokemon heh....
and second who said that it was an instantaneous process, i dont think that a dam is instantly made or cities filled with chickens and outlaws.
that still doesnt explain why he calls the other steffs ancestors, I for one dont call my grandfather my ancestor, people that lived in the stoneage i call my ancestors.
When the game starts we are dropped in to the story alot has happened since the actual problem occurred,
and oh by the way it is Oddworld you know where you have to get a can of kaviar before a race can survive (Munch Oddysee)
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  #58  
03-17-2005, 08:36 AM
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I think Sekto calls the other Steef his "Ancestors" as a generalization, just like calling me white because I have the same pigment in my skin as other whitey whiteboy caucasians, or calling a golden retriever a "dog" because they might not know what breed it is.
Sekto was using "Ancestors" as a broad term, in my hoomble opinion.
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  #59  
03-18-2005, 04:10 PM
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'If Lorne wanted Steef to be a girl they would have given him at least a few female personality traits. And yes, it would be really silly/creepy if a character that talks like a guy, looks like a guy, dresses like a guy, and acts like a guy, turns out to be female.'

Stranger. A girl. Ridiculous. He's obviously a Fag.

Meh, nah, i always saw him as a young male. Not very old. Teenage years. Always thought that he would eventually grow horns as well. Or he'd filed them down or had them surgically removed.
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  #60  
03-29-2005, 04:38 PM
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he a steef duh!
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