Rules Enforcement Scheme -

Cyber-Slig · #31 08-18-2004, 12:17 AM

Spamming is mostly cause by Old threads/Resolved threads.If someone has something on thier mind but its too little/dumb to make a thread about it they can't resist talking about it.We may be good at promoting OW alcar but half of the people who come to the forums are stuck on the game so they just ask ''Hey blabla how do you complete it?'' and once its answered they are gone.These extreme rules dont help either.For example once a thread is resolved and it isnt closed yet.People will begin the ''spamming'' with a conversation.That is why I don't see why a I got a warning for saying ''Yes you are my irish cousin'' on a resolved thread which STILL isnt closed.The fact most of us actually speak like that in real life with changing the topic constantly that is how we act on the internet.Almost everyone does it.And if you have noticed why is it always the 11/14 year odls who are getting warnings?I have 2 warnings.Smell had 1 warning.And brewmaster is on a 1 week ban.I know BM did spam allot so that's understandable but this rule ''enforcement'' is more like ''Do this or else we'll ban you''.Its too strict.and if people keep getting warnings the way they are now half os the members who bother to come on shall be banned....

ClaireBear · #32 08-18-2004, 12:33 AM

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Spam is related to immaturity? You've been one of the worst offendors in the past. The only thing that comes with age is stubbornness to see your own contradictions.

Hmmmmm... really I think my absolute lack of warnings for such begs to differ... under MY definition of spam... people posting in MEET (or whatever it is) posting random pictures, advertising, etc.... then I have done none of that!

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Who does it hurt? It hurts all of us in the end, when there is nothing but spam to reply to. Who else? Oddworld Inhabitants. I've said it many times, and I'll say it again. The Oddworld Forums have a duty to Oddworld Inhabitants. We are, actually a great promoting ground for the Oddworld series. Not only that, but we have many fansites that are prominent in the Oddworld Forums community.

Well here's the actual clincher... you will actually find little to no spam even spam of your definition (anything that doesn't stick rigidly and anally to topic

) in the OddWorld boards and threads... The only "spam" by yours and mty definition is found in the off-topic... how that would effect OWH... I dunno?

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We earn nothing from Oddworld Inhabitants. We do this because we want to. Which means we have a cause, other than greed. And you've got to contend with both Abe Babe's and I's passion. We aren't going to do anything that jeopardises the Oddworld Forums. And we see spamming / rule breaking something that could jeopardise them.

Why bring Abe Babe into this?

You don't see her running around closing this, deleting that, posting grandiose reminders on "The rules"...

I personally see this as a one man crusade...

***Alcar*** · #33 08-18-2004, 12:59 AM

Cyber-Slig, we don't close threads, because there is no need to close mass hordes of threads. If members obeyed the rules properly, most threads would never have to be closed. And, by posting in a dead thread where the thread has been answered is considered spam. Because you're posting for no reason at all.

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Well here's the actual clincher... you will actually find little to no spam even spam of your definition (anything that doesn't stick rigidly and anally to topic

) in the OddWorld boards and threads... The only "spam" by yours and mty definition is found in the off-topic... how that would effect OWH... I dunno?

There was a lot of spam in General Discussion. Just ask the Moderators of the said forum. As for our duty to Oddworld Inhabitants, that duty means keeping the entire forums in tact. One forum (in this case Off-Topic) allowed to go rampant can have a serious affect on the entire forums. We have the rules to protect each forum, and each member. These rules are applied to all forums.

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Why bring Abe Babe into this?

You don't see her running around closing this, deleting that, posting grandiose reminders on "The rules"...

I personally see this as a one man crusade...

I didn't bring Abe Babe into this. I merely mentioned that she and I have the same passion for Oddworld. Not only that, but we share common ideas and opinions about matters such as these. The reason she hasn't been very active, is because up until a day or two ago, she was away at an Anime Convention.

One man crusade? I have the backing of every Moderator who has posted in this thread, bar one. As well as that, I've got members who believe this is the right thing as well. The actual truth is, that it is the same minority of members who disagree. Personally, I see your retaliation as a one woman, same small group opposition. It's been like that through most arguments too.

Alcar...

ClaireBear · #34 08-18-2004, 01:29 AM

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I didn't bring Abe Babe into this. I merely mentioned that she and I have the same passion for Oddworld. Not only that, but we share common ideas and opinions about matters such as these. The reason she hasn't been very active, is because up until a day or two ago, she was away at an Anime Convention.

Common ideas and opinions maybe but I think your beliefs on implementation differ greatly!!!!!!

I actually have never seen her comment on the spamming in the open board or threaten to "really enforce the rules" since I logged on here! Even though this isn't the first time you've had problems with spamming!

So I think you're bringing Abe Babe into this as justification for your own personal rampage... thats how I see it and I'm sure I'm not alone in my assumption. Your presentation is quite clear even if it is not the case!

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One man crusade? I have the backing of every Moderator who has posted in this thread, bar one. As well as that, I've got members who believe this is the right thing as well. The actual truth is, that it is the same minority of members who disagree. Personally, I see your retaliation as a one woman, same small group opposition. It's been like that through most arguments too.

Its not the mods that you need backing from its the average joes... the bread and butter posters!!!!!

At the moment there's a, as you say minority devide and as Confucius say "A happy forum that won't make"

I made my opinions on this forums ridiculously thorough and binding rules quite clear when I first registered here... my opinions haven't changed... therefore I will continue to voice them if and when the need arises I merely decided to stay... I have actually not moderated my posting style either... the only thing I no longer do is double post!!!

Lucipher · #35 08-18-2004, 01:51 AM

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DI has got a point. When Syd did this everyone went apeshit. Now Alcar acts completely draconian deleting posts left and right and everyone just bends over and takes it without lubrication? Un freaking believable!

You don't have to be so graphic mate. I feel sick now. What happened to Syd anyway? I heard Alcar banned her after she made him into a super mod.

***Wil*** · #36 08-18-2004, 02:55 AM

Lucifer, Sydney and others left the Forums because their interests grew away from Oddworld. No point in sticking about an Oddworld Forum if you're not an Oddworld fan.

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It appears to be the older members (me, Statikk, Nate) that are having difficulty with this.

And it's the even older members that believe this is a good thing.

ClaireBear, it looks to me as if you're the one who has now brought Abe Babe into this. Alcar already said that his mentioning of her was regarding devotion for Oddworld, but it's you who is now saying that Abe Babe has had no word in the matter, as if that's some kind of arguement against the Rules Enforcement.

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Its not the mods that you need backing from its the average joes... the bread and butter posters!!!!!

Is that supposed to imply that my worthiness as a poster on these boards is irrelevent? Because I can assure you I get sickened by the spam on these Forums, and it's not just the mods, other members do agree. It has already been noted that the opposition here are a somewhat small band, and it is my own observation that for the large part these people are falling out of their love for Oddworld, meaning they cannot share the same passion for which the Admin are basing their actions on. But it doesn't take an Oddworld fan to see that levels of spam are rising. It was one foul trudge through the Welcomes and Birthdays Forum that brought to my attention the disgraceful levels of off-topic and downright nasty posts that were going about.

It's been said before that the Mods weren't doing their jobs. Suddenly we are and the complaining starts from a different angle. Yes I know the two groups are the same, but if it's all the same with you I'd rather do my job and keep the boards clean of spam. This isn't so much as a crackdown but a kick in the pants for the mods and admin, and a reminder to everyone that we're doing our duty once again.

ClaireBear · #37 08-18-2004, 05:08 AM

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And it's the even older members that believe this is a good thing.

No daftie!

I mean I'm 8 years older than you... Nate is 6 and Statikk that guy could be as old as the hills...

The older you get, the more relaxed you become surrounding issues of rules and regulations. Its like a kinda "wait! I'm not in school no more!" kinda realisation! Not just with forums but with life in general... you will slowly begin to bend and manipulate rules and regs you encounter in everyday life to suit your own personal morality forged after x y z years... its a commonality!

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ClaireBear, it looks to me as if you're the one who has now brought Abe Babe into this. Alcar already said that his mentioning of her was regarding devotion for Oddworld, but it's you who is now saying that Abe Babe has had no word in the matter, as if that's some kind of arguement against the Rules Enforcement.

Please read carefully...

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Which means we have a cause, other than greed. And you've got to contend with both Abe Babe's and I's passion. We aren't going to do anything that jeopardises the Oddworld Forums. And we see spamming / rule breaking something that could jeopardise them.

Now to me that reads like Peter is suggesting that she is in agreement with his methods of enforcing the rules.

I raise this issue as although I agree that forums should have an AUP.. I repeat for the terminally stoopid...I think rules concerning posters conduct is necessary but I also think that this forum's is far far too stringent and that Alcar's mrthods of "enforcement" would be better suited in Nazi occupied Poland!

That is my point... I am pointing out Abe Babes silence as perhaps her waying of staying out of something she doesn't condone!

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Is that supposed to imply that my worthiness as a poster on these boards is
irrelevent? Because I can assure you I get sickened by the spam on these Forums, and it's not just the mods, other members do agree. It has already been noted that the opposition here are a somewhat small band, and it is my own observation that for the large part these people are falling out of their love for Oddworld, meaning they cannot share the same passion for which the Admin are basing their actions on. But it doesn't take an Oddworld fan to see that levels of spam are rising. It was one foul trudge through the Welcomes and Birthdays Forum that brought to my attention the disgraceful levels of off-topic and downright nasty posts that were going about.

No what I'm saying is that Peter using the "the mods agree with me card" is the same as Hitler saying "Himler and Gerbles think the same way too!" Of course mods will comply with a need for less spamming that exactly why they became mods!!!! We need to see which average posters agree with Alcars excessive methods!

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It's been said before that the Mods weren't doing their jobs. Suddenly we are and the complaining starts from a different angle. Yes I know the two groups are the same, but if it's all the same with you I'd rather do my job and keep the boards clean of spam. This isn't so much as a crackdown but a kick in the pants for the mods and admin, and a reminder to everyone that we're doing our duty once again.

Bulls**t its not what you do but how you do it... posting a HUUUUGE reminder and handing out bans and warnings in hignsight is nothing more than shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted....

what should have happened was a quiet private discussion between alcar and the rest of the mods to tighten their belts implemented without the general posting public aware of the change... as it is we now know that Smell and Smitz have a warning and Brew has been banned! Which actually is stated in the rules somewhere... lengthy that they are..

***Wil*** · #38 08-18-2004, 06:40 AM

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I mean I'm 8 years older than you... Nate is 6 and Statikk that guy could be as old as the hills...

A simple misunderstanding. I have been a member of these Forums for longer than you. I thought that you yourself were alluding to your own party being here longer than our supporters.

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Now to me that reads like Peter is suggesting that she is in agreement with his methods of enforcing the rules.

Read what you will, but that's not what Alcar said. He said Abe Babe shares a passion for Oddworld, will not allow the Forums to become jeopardised, and sees breaking the rules as just such a thing. You've still brought Abe Babe into this by your suggestion that she does not support our method. If she doesn't support our method, she will have said something on the matter.

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Bulls**t its not what you do but how you do it... posting a HUUUUGE reminder and handing out bans and warnings in hignsight is nothing more than shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted....

So you're saying that we shouldn't have reminded the Forum members of the rules, and let them continue spamming unaware of our 'crackdown'... which have lead to even more spamming, even more warnings, and maybe even more banning. Warnings were not handed out in hindsight - they were only issued to members who broke the rules after the reminder was posted.

And your comparisons to Nazi occupation are ridiculous. The staff here do not go about seizing control of other Forums, kill their members and use their remains for our own gain. We are not a country or a political party, we are a discussion Forums that does not tolerate spam. If you want to use political ideas in your arguements, then you are the one who has just suggested swift decisive action and punishment without the public's knowledge.

Cyber-Slig · #39 08-18-2004, 06:51 AM

And I had 2 warnings in instantly in one day CB...Anyway CB and Max I think you should PM this.Then try alcar and then we shall all know the come of it...

ClaireBear · #40 08-18-2004, 06:58 AM

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If you want to use political ideas in your arguements, then you are the one who has just suggested swift decisive action and punishment without the public's knowledge.

Yeeees! But we would all know about it eventually when our mates PM us to let us know they've been slapped with a warning!

***Wil*** · #41 08-18-2004, 08:28 AM

But there would be less warning slapping around if we warned Forumers. We aren't trying to catch people red handed to get rid of them, we're only trying to eliminate the problem.

Cyber-Slig, kudos on your concern for the rules, but the ideas we're discussing are open to debate from anyone, so there's no real need to keep things private.

Rex Tirano · #42 08-18-2004, 11:26 AM

I agree with Maxy and Peter and all the mods on this. There's so much more spam now than there was last year; it has to be dealt with.

I don't mind the odd bit of spam, some of it can be quite funny. But it's an odd feeling being able to go into a forum and just seeing spam everywhere. It's annoying, and it's un-needed. (Such a spelling error :P)

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Quote: Originally Posted by Alcar
Which means we have a cause, other than greed. And you've got to contend with both Abe Babe's and I's passion. We aren't going to do anything that jeopardises the Oddworld Forums. And we see spamming / rule breaking something that could jeopardise them.

I kinda read that as in the forums is here because of the love the forum admins and staff share about Oddworld. And that they don't want the forums to become ruined by mountains of spam. He just emphasizes about his and Abebabes passion, but he could of used any other staff member.

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And your comparisons to Nazi occupation are ridiculous. The staff here do not go about seizing control of other Forums, kill their members and use their remains for our own gain. We are not a country or a political party, we are a discussion Forums that does not tolerate spam. If you want to use political ideas in your arguements, then you are the one who has just suggested swift decisive action and punishment without the public's knowledge.

That made me giggle ^_^ All the mods'd look good in uniform.

***Nate*** · #43 08-18-2004, 01:49 PM

I've noticed a few people using my name in vain which is a bit ridiculous as this is my first post in this thread. So I figured I would clear up where I stand on this issue. I do not support the Alcar bandwagon. I do not support the CB bandwagon. I'm not even sure how much I support my own bandwagon

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My only personal objection to the spam-crackdown was the shutting down of the spam thread. I've made my feelings on that known elsewhere so I won't get into that here. I haven't been given any warnings so I can't comment on Alcar's methods but all I will say is that when a rule has not been enforced it is not the best idea to jump in straight away with a Rudi Guiliani-style non-tolerance enforcement. Perhaps the mods should have given a polite reminder and then enforced the rules for all following post rather than those that had occurred before the reminder.

EDIT: I just visited the "Summer Movie Extavaganza! Huzzah" thread and want to complement Max on his mature and reasonable way of dealing with black-coolness-oriented spam there

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And I command that the topic of black people and coolness be dropped now. If you want to continue it, PM it or start a thread, rather than going Off-Topic.

No banning. Not even a threat. And because he did it so politely, people will listen.

***Wil*** · #44 08-19-2004, 02:25 AM

Thanks Nate_dog. I admit (without being bothered to make sure) I probably used your name here after seeing your 'stance' in the Spam Thread thread, so I apologise for that. With the Summer Movie thread, I decided that no official action was required as that particular conversation had stemmed from the original topic in the way conversations do, yet clearly had no place there.

Perhaps you're right on our jumping straight into proper enforcement after our own lapse. We should have had a warm-up, but it doesn't really matter. No real damage has been done. The staff will certainly bear that in mind if we're ever in a similar situation.

EDIT: I misread you the first time. I'll remind you that no spamming was punished except for that which was posted after Alcar posted the reminder. Everything before will have been deleted, but the posters won't have been issued with warnings unless the mods were doing their job at the time.

ClaireBear · #45 08-19-2004, 04:03 AM

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Perhaps you're right on our jumping straight into proper enforcement after our own lapse. We should have had a warm-up, but it doesn't really matter. No real damage has been done. The staff will certainly bear that in mind if we're ever in a similar situation.

Thank God! A resolution... the correct one!

It takes a great man to admit their faults!

(For women it doesn't matter!

)

***Wil*** · #46 08-19-2004, 10:58 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'll then quote what you said earlier), but you wanted us to step into full rule enforcement without warning everyone about it.

oddguy · #47 08-19-2004, 07:23 PM

It's a lose lose situation. You're going to get pissed off members either way. If you tell everyone you're enforcing the rules, they get upset. If you silently enforce the rules, people get upset and ask what the sudden crackdown is all about.
I can see it now.
"What? You decided to enforce the rules without warning us first? Unfair!"

-oddguy

ClaireBear · #48 08-19-2004, 10:12 PM

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Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'll then quote what you said earlier), but you wanted us to step into full rule enforcement without warning everyone about it.

I thought thats what you mean't by a "warm-up" slowly starting to enforce the rules as stated and if that didn't work THEN post a missive about enforcement.... no?

***Wil*** · #49 08-20-2004, 05:31 AM

Oh no, we'd still post a warning to everyone. Like I said, we're not trying to catch people in the act, we want the rule-breaking to stop. If members read the freshly-posted rules and stop flaming, etc., we wouldn't have to hand any warnings out, which you must agree is better.

Statikk HDM · #50 08-23-2004, 11:21 AM

Spam, spam spam, bitch, bitch, bitch. Why do people even care about spam? You know how the vast majority of this canned spiced ham is created? Threads are started about it, which quickly degenerate into a contest to see who can make the other guy look like a bigger, more spam-happy dickhead. Grow up people. Spam is nothing if not a cheap and entertaining way to up your post count and piss people off. Stop rewarding people with responses and flame wars over who spams the most and it will go away.

Codek · #51 08-24-2004, 07:33 PM

I go away for a while and you all turn into total retards.

It's just a forum. Stop being twats.

"Respect other members, and their opinions.
Spamming is not tolerated.
Do not threaten the safety of the forums or server.
Do not discuss bans with others.
Do not post anything directed at single members."

1: respect is subjective.
2: the definition of "spam" is subjective, but I beleive the "dictionary" description of spam should be used to describe and identify it, rather than simply "whatever a mod deems useless".
3: I've already threatened and compromised the security of the forums' server several times in the past, yet I am still here, why is that?
4: Why should we not discuss bans with the others? This is a community, you can't just remove it's members and expect life to go on as if nothing happened. There is simply no way you can regulate or enforce that rule unless you start policing PM's, which is something the vBulletin architecture isn't designed to do.
5: How the hell are we supposed to address individual points in discussions then?

I don't see this enforcement as anything more than a limitation on the scope and possibilities of future discussion. And frankly Alcar as much as I am releived to see you taking a more active stance against your staff as well as the members, I don't fully trust your perceptions with so many very subjective and unclear areas.

I'm not going to use a forum which takes "rule enforcement" with the same seriousness as post-911 USA takes "war on terrorism".

***Alcar*** · #52 08-25-2004, 01:40 AM

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"Respect other members, and their opinions.
Spamming is not tolerated.
Do not threaten the safety of the forums or server.
Do not discuss bans with others.
Do not post anything directed at single members."

1: respect is subjective.
2: the definition of "spam" is subjective, but I beleive the "dictionary" description of spam should be used to describe and identify it, rather than simply "whatever a mod deems useless".
3: I've already threatened and compromised the security of the forums' server several times in the past, yet I am still here, why is that?
4: Why should we not discuss bans with the others? This is a community, you can't just remove it's members and expect life to go on as if nothing happened. There is simply no way you can regulate or enforce that rule unless you start policing PM's, which is something the vBulletin architecture isn't designed to do.
5: How the hell are we supposed to address individual points in discussions then?

1) Being subjective doesn't detract it from its actual meaning. Here, respect means just what it implies. Not what some twisted sociopath takes respect to mean.
2) We give the Moderators the power to deem a post not worthy of the forums. That's detracting from their abilities.
3) Actually, I added the hacking rule after you made those threats. It was because of you that this particular rule was instigated.
4) It's a rule older than my registeration date. When a member is banned, they are banned of just cause. If you have a problem with the banning, you can privately contact us, but the community discussion of such can cause more problems than it solves.
5) You can address single posts, just not anything that is so directed at one particular member that it digresses from the topic at hand.

Alcar...

***Wil*** · #53 08-25-2004, 02:08 AM

4) You sure can discuss bans, just not on the public side of things.
5) I thought Alcar changed the rules. It should be that posts only relevent to one person should be PMed.

Lucipher · #54 08-25-2004, 07:23 AM

I don't have anything against the law enforcment. Just ease down on the warnings a little bit...

I will say no more for fear of a mod turning my account to dust with a push of a button.

***Wil*** · #55 08-25-2004, 08:34 AM

Tsk, it's not against the rules to voice your opinions on the rules.

The thing is, warnings are how the rules are enforced. With no warnings, what would deter people from spamming or being nasty? Even with the warning system in place some people can't seem to help themselves.

Codek · #56 08-25-2004, 09:11 AM

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Tsk, it's not against the rules to voice your opinions on the rules.

Well apparantly, it's against the rules IF, the moderators decide that it's "spam" - the definition of which remains undisclosed for the convenience of this "anti-spam" campeign no doubt.

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2) We give the Moderators the power to deem a post not worthy of the forums. That's detracting from their abilities.

See what I mean?

Now the moderators can pretty much make up rules as they go along. They can "deem" something to be not worthy and warn warn warn. That's just asking for problems and frankly, I don't want to post in that kind of environment.

I'm going to leave this forum before Alcar bans me for posting something that a moderator deems "not worthy", or some such bullshit.

You better hope that I won't deem your server "not worthy", suckhard.

***Wil*** · #57 08-25-2004, 09:39 AM

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I'm going to leave this forum before Alcar bans me for posting something that a moderator deems "not worthy", or some such bullshit.

You better hope that I won't deem your server "not worthy", suckhard.

I don't think it's the "not worthy" rule you've just broken.

Anyway, I don't know what Alcar means. The definitions of this 'not worthy' status are difficult to define, yes, but most people are intelligent enough to realise when their posts detracts from the conversation, becomes personal, or has no relevence. If they're not, they get a warning and are pointed towards the rules. I don't get why everyone is acting as if warnings are the end of a member's life on the Forums. They're exactly what they're called.

Cyber-Slig · #58 08-25-2004, 09:49 AM

Ehm...a warning is the end of someones life on the forums if they get 5......Noone want's to end up like brewmaster...by the way is he on a permanent ban?I think you will have noticed that spam has cut down but so has you're posts.theres only like what 30 new posts per day? You can't change peoples attitudes with the rules in the click of a finger.On my 2nd day after the rules I got 2 warnings in a row.If a forum goes incredibly off-topic that it cannot be saved DO NOT hand out a hand load of warnings and delete the posts expecting ti to live again...it is dead..resolved...boring....just close the thread and throw it in necrum or something.I think everyone has atleast 1 warning now.....Except the mods and probably oddguy does'nt but......As soon as one person makes a comment others can't resist answering it.Be it off-topic or not.And I don't think you are doing you're jobs correctly.I have reported some spam in my RPG but it is deleted ? No it is'nt.....

Hobo · #59 08-25-2004, 09:55 AM

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And I don't think you are doing you're jobs correctly.I have reported some spam in my RPG but it is deleted ? No it is'nt.....

Sorry, that would be a fault on my part, I have failed in actually moderating my forum, I don't pay much attention to it as it's pretty dead, but until The Red Muse comes in, if anymore spam is posted and I don't pick up on it send me a PM and I'll burn the criminal with my firey mace. I shall now go find the spam and deem whether it needs destroying

And Away! *whips crack noise*

Codek · #60 08-25-2004, 02:14 PM

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Sorry, that would be a fault on my part, I have failed in actually moderating my forum, I don't pay much attention to it as it's pretty dead, but until The Red Muse comes in, if anymore spam is posted and I don't pick up on it send me a PM and I'll burn the criminal with my firey mace. I shall now go find the spam and deem whether it needs destroying

And Away! *whips crack noise*

You are about to have your modship removed so, stfu plzkthx and stop being such a smelly erection.

This "I spam you ban" warning activation service was brought to you by "Idon givvafuc, Moscow".