Weapons of Mass Destruction found! -

Havoc · #31 05-18-2004, 07:05 AM

America claims they try to prevent WW3... I believe theire only starting it...

Jacob · #32 05-18-2004, 09:18 AM

If they do find WMD i will be pleased, because it means there is more of a chance of Labour getting in this election.

I don't really get our country - everythings on the up since the Conservatives f*cked off, but nooooo, just because we invade a shitty little country on the hopes of stopping a dictator Labour's bad. The Conservatives make it worse aswell by bringing it up constantly, it's like "Okay, but what actual shittyness has Labour done to OUR country...oh yes, none. And if there is, it's at least better than the shittyness you did to it, Mr Michael-Opportunistic-Prick-Howard."...

Volsung · #33 05-18-2004, 09:22 AM

Hopefully a new election will bring in a new President. And hopefully this new president will not be stupid enough to continue the course Bush plotted out. Anything else is conjecture. Can Kerry be this president? He'd better be.

The Oil argument: This is only heresay, and as I no longer have steady internet access, I don't really have time to check, but I've heard that the world's projected oil reserves are expected to be depleted by 2040. I don't know what that might all effect, but if it's anywhere close to the cutoff date (even a few decades early) it's still heinous for our energy use in the future. Besides, there's a possibility that removing all the oil from the land could seriously disrupt the planetary ecosystem. I feel that's unlikely, but possible.

As far as I can tell, all the negative assessments of the US's past military history are accurate. There are two things that bother me, though. 1: would Israel really attack the US. I mean, it's pretty much an illegal country WE created because we felt that jewish people deserved some compensation. Obviously, they don't want to side with the bad guys (US) but could they truly attack one of their few staunch defenders? I'm not well versed in that political arena, so I don't have any more to offer on it.

2: PA, what can you possibly mean by optimistic? You're hoping for there to be WMD. Is this so Bush can be right? Would finding them somehow justify the unprovoked assault on Iraq and the murdering of its' citizens? The only effect it would have at this point is the Bush administration gaining enough political power to actually start the war they're so intent on.

Codek · #34 05-18-2004, 09:25 AM

Labour hasn't done anything for England. They've just fiddled with it, and poked it like tastey cake.

Blair was promising all sorts of crap that he ended up not delivering. The NHS is on a 72 billion pound a year budget, and it still sucks. That by the way, is enough money to give every person on earth £12.

The most they've ever done is erect a giant circus tent and circus wheel in london - the circus tent, reminiscant of an upturned wok, did nothing but create dents in pockets, and the london eye is now merely a tourist attraction. How fantastic.

Havoc · #35 05-18-2004, 09:37 AM

:

The Oil argument: This is only heresay, and as I no longer have steady internet access, I don't really have time to check, but I've heard that the world's projected oil reserves are expected to be depleted by 2040. I don't know what that might all effect, but if it's anywhere close to the cutoff date (even a few decades early) it's still heinous for our energy use in the future. Besides, there's a possibility that removing all the oil from the land could seriously disrupt the planetary ecosystem. I feel that's unlikely, but possible.

You know, there is a verry large story/rumor behind that, but since that by itsself can create a huge disussion, I think Il make a new topic on that one.
(Go here)

:

1: would Israel really attack the US. I mean, it's pretty much an illegal country WE created because we felt that jewish people deserved some compensation.

Here America goes deciding again who and who can not get their way and who deserves what. When does it ever strike that fat head of whoever has been presidents over the past few decades, that being the biggest doesnt automaticly make you the boss. And why shouldnt they attack America? Half of Europe helped build America for what it is now, did we ever gat a thank you? No... we only get backstabbed cuz Bush doesnt even listnen to us anymore. Its like asking for money, getting it and never returning it or claiming you never borowed a dime...

SeaRex · #36 05-18-2004, 10:46 AM

For being the "best country in the world," America sure is a scary place to live in. With the threat of... oh gee... I don't know... one of dozens of countries poised to attack us and the general murmur of Bush reinstating the draft, I can't say that I'm too happy to turn on the news every morning.

Damn, so close to the voting age. I really feel like I could make a difference the election (well, as much of a difference as a single citizen can make by voting). Normally, I'm sure I would go for some pinko liberal douche party, but this year I would vote for Kerry on principle alone. Sure, he may not be the best presidential candidate America has ever seen, but he certainly is the lesser of the two evils. Damn you, Nader. Don't fuck this up.

Plus I'm a pussy. I don't wanna get drafted.

Bah, there's always Canada. Come to think of it, I really wouldn't mind living in Canada. Of course, the US has had a history doing little things like barring the borders when a draft is about to begin. Cunning bastards!

Statikk HDM · #37 05-18-2004, 11:08 AM

Vote for Kerry. This time if you vote Green you might as well vote for for more wars(oops, years) of FASCIST MAN-APE IN TRAINING(oops, Bush).
You know, a lot of people are trashing the way people stick up for America but you have to understand that this is a visceral, conditioned thing. People in the U.S. have essentially been brainwashed into worship of state. The government grows each year and more and more rights are taken. Who cares if the constitution gets hijacked and perverted as long as terrorists get nabbed and nobody has to see a titty without express written consent. Oh, pledge allegiance to a meaningless symbol with a saying that was humanistic but then corrupted to save us from the Godless Reds? Don't mind if I do! In fact, please insert this mindless flag worship every time more than 30 people congregate.

Jacob · #38 05-18-2004, 12:59 PM

'Labour hasn't done anything for England. They've just fiddled with it, and poked it like tastey cake.'

1. Lowered inflation rates for 30 years
2. Lowered interest rates for 35 years
3. Introduced a National Minimum Wage
4. Record police numbers in England and Wales
5. Cut crime by 25 per cent overall

Not only that but we've had the lowest unemployment since '75. There are more by the by, i just can't be bothered to list them all. But yeh, i'd say the above was good enough to keep Labour in, and knowing Michael Howard [especially with his track record] he'd most likely f*ck it up. And even if he isn't going to, i'd still rather not take a chance.

Majic · #39 05-18-2004, 02:41 PM

Jesus. Paranoia, heresay, rumors, suspicions, acting rebellious. The war in the Middle East is unjustified. It's been said enough. I just don't get it; do people want to hate America? The absurd sentiment here is just... I can't quite think of a word to describe it. Not stupid, but just a bit odd. There's just some sort of psychological urge provoking people into a fad, or going against the power. I haven't a clue. It's just odd.

Too many things have been listed to bother responding against, or at least that I have time for right now. But outside of ****ing up the whole ME foriegn affairs, america isn't a bad place. Yet... you hate America? When saying you hate America, or saying you believe America thinks it can control the world, or you think america are a bunch of greedy bastards brainwashing their people, are talking about all 250 million of us, or just assumptions about the national government? Quite honestly, this offends me. My friends and Ihave done nothing wrong to others. I have a responsible, law-abiding family. Yet the word "America" includes everybody; me, Oddguy, Searex, Mac, Morgo, big Dave, and... PA. Sort of. Not sure if that guy's mindset fits in anywhere. But have we done anything wrong? Have we gone around parading ourselves as world protectors? Are the editorials in the newspaper full of arrogant bastards saying we're right? Do the TV shows we watch every night go about telling us we're mighty? The term "America" is just being thrown around like a toy, something to put lal the blame on. But all you're really talking about is the current governments actions regarding the War on Terrorism and Iraq. Has anybody actually bothered to stop and think about that?

The Bush administration hasn't even done all that bad outside of foreign affairs. Our inflation is relatively low. Our unemployment rate is still a touch high, but it's no worse than it was years ago. Our economy is in dandy shape, our education ystem is still good. There are some specifics to be hammered out, but our standard of living is still one of the highest there is.

THE POINT IS: Do you all truly judge all of your answers on America based on slandering news, popular social opinion, and the war in Iraq? Or do you actually bother to look past the ideas that get thrown around regarding our government and take a look at the country? I dare somebody. Speak up and say that I am, or Mac is, or Oddguy, our parents, our teachers, the people that help us at Wal Mart. Say that we're a flawed, greedy people that is plotting against the world. It's ridiculous.

Trash foreign actions all you want. I'll agree with you as long as there's fact to back it up, and isn't some hole-filled speculation attempt. But where is the justification, where the hell is the justification, in echoing trash-talk about an entire country that clearly is a good place to live?

oddguy · #40 05-18-2004, 05:44 PM

Majic, I'm sorry, but I've been saying that America is corrupt as well. And when I say that, I don't mean everyone living in this country is corrupt. I mean the way things are run with our Government.

-oddguy

the brew master · #41 05-18-2004, 08:42 PM

i have to agree with death and havoc about thier idea about the world vs USA.........the USA think they are so powerful that they can just push everyone around....but at what cost i mean trying to prevent WW3 my ass......if it ever comes down to it that there will be a WW3.....who do you think is gonna be responsible......ill let you guys guess and if you dont know the answer you must be one big idiot

Codek · #42 05-18-2004, 10:40 PM

:

'Labour hasn't done anything for England. They've just fiddled with it, and poked it like tastey cake.'

1. Lowered inflation rates for 30 years
2. Lowered interest rates for 35 years
3. Introduced a National Minimum Wage
4. Record police numbers in England and Wales
5. Cut crime by 25 per cent overall

Not only that but we've had the lowest unemployment since '75. There are more by the by, i just can't be bothered to list them all. But yeh, i'd say the above was good enough to keep Labour in, and knowing Michael Howard [especially with his track record] he'd most likely f*ck it up. And even if he isn't going to, i'd still rather not take a chance.

Inflation rates are now on the increase.
Interest rates are now on the increase.
National Minimum Wage increases are completely meaningless because of councel tax.
Police are nothing more than misplaced power in this country.
Crime has been steadily rising ever since the labor party came into power - even though they've cut 25 percent, that's over a period of time, and crime is still higher than it ever was.
House prices are stupidly high, and first time homeowners are finding it impossible to get anything.
University fees are now completely outrageous, meaning that students are leaving University with immense debts.
The trains are the worst they've ever been in the whole recorded history of the railways.
There was talk of closing the worlds first and largest subway - the underground - as if it was some kind of viable option.

Looks pretty bad to me.

:

I just don't get it; do people want to hate America?

No, of course not. Nobody wants to hate anyone. The problem is, America aren't showing much respect for anybody but themselves. They aren't taking anyone else into account or consideration. If America was a good country in the action it takes, then it would be more widely accepted, but as it is, America was just about the WORST country that could've helped with the dictatorship situation in Iraq.

Di$array · #43 05-19-2004, 03:27 AM

yes they just found a few shells thats all... not these big massive warehouse that we where all ment to expect, the war was all about the oil

Statikk HDM · #44 05-19-2004, 03:30 AM

I don't hate America, Majic(typing this directly as this seemed somewhat directed to me). BUT...I do think that Bush is giving us the royal screwjob and protecting himself with jingoism. I'm just trying to say that patriotism is more then a few mumbled words at a hockey game and to just accept everything you hear from the Bush Administration and the media is tantmount to being brainwashed. I can understand why people are frustrated and upset about the way certain people have been conducting themselves.Getting a court-appointed puppet president who gives America a worsening economy, environment, and a corrupt war tends to piss a whole lot of people off, and not just abroad.

Havoc · #45 05-19-2004, 04:31 AM

Was Bush SR just as bad as his son? If not that guy should be near a mental breakdown about all the critic on his son...

paramiteabe · #46 05-19-2004, 04:37 AM

Well I think every nation is corrupt these days. It doesn't matter what side your on every nation or government in reality is still wrong. It all depends on what that nation stands for. There is no right side and if you think there is then your insane.

Paramiteabe...

Havoc · #47 05-19-2004, 04:45 AM

Then your insane... as you always seem to defend your so called country...

paramiteabe · #48 05-19-2004, 05:26 AM

No I support the people and justice of my country not the administration or government. I support the foundation my country was built on and that is the freedom of the people. I am not insane because I support what is right and that is a foundation built under the law of God. I don't support the acts we do against the rest of the world because it is wrong. Now if you don't like that then hate me for what I support!

Codek · #49 05-19-2004, 05:40 AM

Actually PA, I have to agree with Havoc on this one - you just blindly support and follow your country because it's where you're from.

I see nothing wrong with that, but that kind of supporting should only be done in a football stadium.

Havoc · #50 05-19-2004, 06:46 AM

Thank you...

And PA... here you go again with you God... dude He doesnt have anything to do with your country. Iraqi ppl have believe's as well. Some believe in Allah, others in God. Whats the diffrence? Just becouse the bible says you should hate a country (which it does not BTW) means you should? Thats just bullshit and one of the main reasons im not religeus.

:

I support the people and justice of my country

Your country (and most others just the same) have long forgotten what justice is. Same here in The Netherlands... 4 years jail for murder? Is that justice? If thats justice then **** justice.
Nowadays justice is just a lame exuse for ppl to get their way. Bush has become verry popular with his speech: And we will bring them to justice... yea right. You realy think Saddam is gonna get an hounest court session? You realy think Bush and every other high ranked butt head is going to 'tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god'?

If that is what you support PA... then yes... then I hate you for it.

Codek · #51 05-19-2004, 06:51 AM

PA, you realise that as an American, you have the right to question your governments motives?

Why don't you do that for once rather than just blindly follow?

OK religion yes, that takes a bit of faith since nobody knows what happens when you die but, really, these are things that they have facts for, why don't you go check them out...

Esus · #52 05-19-2004, 07:24 AM

According to the bible, various christian religions, and other things written in the bible about God, America should technically be disowned and damned by this so-called God.
Don't ask me why, I was told this 'fact' by my friendly neighbourhood religious-guy.
I love Jacob, he's always right.

Havoc · #53 05-19-2004, 08:11 AM

PA... your turn... *Thinks to himself: This should be fun...)

Jacob · #54 05-19-2004, 11:27 AM

Technically the war was justified. I forget the reasons why, but it was on 'Question time' were this was brought up. The woman said that the war was justified because Saddam had broken the UN's resolutions, it's just that the Governments said they were after WMD that threw everybody off.

Labourness
Implemented the Human Rights Act
Five-, six- and seven-year-olds in class sizes of 30 or less
Restored city-wide government to London
Increased child benefit by £5 to £16.05
Created Sure Start to help children from low income households
Introduced the Disability Commission Rights Act
Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since the industrial revolution
£200 winter fuel payment to pensioners, with an extra £100 for the over-80s
Free TV licences for over-75s
Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals
Banned handguns

Death, were did you get your information from?

I really don't want this to turn in to another Religious debate but i do believe that the Bible [and its countless spin-offs] are basically written forms of Saddam Hussein etc. Take Lilith for example, she shows all this "Girl power" and shtuffs and what happens? Just because she isn't subserviant to Adam? She is damned by God to have 100 of her children die everyday. Nice(!)

And just on Deaths last point, there are now experiments going on to see what happens after death. The whole OBE thing for example. Which means that if a person comes back and reports to no Godlyness, just another Spiritual existance, then my point will have been proven. However, as all Christians have done in the past, they will class this as Lucifer's work and say that the persons Soul is tainted and that they have drank the Devils juices of evil. Ahh yes, such happy memories...

the brew master · #55 05-19-2004, 09:46 PM

once again i have to agree with death and havoc......PA your an american right?.....that doesnt mean everything america does you have suppourt it.....your like a blind follower....i understand if you wanna stick up for your country and all but i mean 'justice'....how would you define the 'justice' of america...going to war for oil and to get sadaam and now 700 dead and counting and the families of the soldiers who died have to live with the fact that they died for george bush and the 'justice' of george bush and america......im done...anyone else agree with me?

Statikk HDM · #56 05-20-2004, 03:46 AM

Sr. was just as bad as Junior except he handled his war a lot better than Chimp-boy.
They both presided over shitty economies, both did shady things(Iran-Contra, funding death squads, War in Iraq(for Junior) and both were strange speakers with bizarre voice patterns. Both broke promises(respectively, No New Taxes, funding for various programs).
Death toll update. Now say closer to 800 for Americans, over 900 collectively.
PA if you support the Constitution you cannot support Bush. He broke funding rules and helped passed legislation that infringes upon your constitutional rights. He also wants to change the Constitution so it only has good, "Christian" things in it. Things he and his wingnuts support.

paramiteabe · #57 05-20-2004, 04:01 AM

Hehe I don't support Bush But I also don't support Kerry he is even worse. he is constantly changeing his mind on issues all the time.

I may be a Catholic but I don't support the world. What I do support is my God and all that is good which the Constitution represents. I don't think our four fathers who wrote our constitution back in the 1700's wanted America to turn into what it is today. And Bush simply corrupted it aswell as what Kerry plans to do. Lets face it our government is filled with politicians who want to bring forth WW3.

Paramiteabe...

Codek · #58 05-20-2004, 04:08 AM

:

Hehe I don't support Bush But I also don't support Kerry he is even worse. he is constantly changeing his mind on issues all the time.

I may be a Catholic but I don't support the world. What I do support is my God and all that is good which the Constitution represents. I don't think our four fathers who wrote our constitution back in the 1700's wanted America to turn into what it is today. And Bush simply corrupted it aswell as what Kerry plans to do. Lets face it our government is filled with politicians who want to bring forth WW3.

Paramiteabe...

LOL. "four fathers". PA you're a genius!

paramiteabe · #59 05-20-2004, 04:15 AM

Why thankyou Death its really nice to here you say that. I know I know I spelled it wrong dident I? Ah stupid typo error! Oh well you get the idea what I ment right? I don't want to argue or anything I just want to state on my own opinion here. I am not trying to bash someone thats just too much of a bad example on my part. But of course it just went crazy in the other thread which I have vowed to myself will never happen again.

Codek · #60 05-20-2004, 04:24 AM

:

Why thankyou Death its really nice to here you say that. I know I know I spelled it wrong dident I? Ah stupid typo error! Oh well you get the idea what I ment right? I don't want to argue or anything I just want to state on my own opinion here. I am not trying to bash someone thats just too much of a bad example on my part. But of course it just went crazy in the other thread which I have vowed to myself will never happen again.

I ABSOLUTELY understand what you're trying to say. And I agree with it.

You're just supporting your country's troops. They fight no matter what, what's not to support about that?